Sox hitting??

[Spudboy]

We have seen time and time again that giving big contracts to free agents is not the way to go. I would much prefer to overpay in terms of dollars to get fewer years. There are times when a big contract might be inevitable, but the Moreland, Beltre, Gomes type deals are the way to go with free agents.

 

Yes. Just add Victorino!

[moonslav59]

No doubt, but as I said in another thread, the Sox are 11th in the league in SLG. 11th out of 15! That is really bad.

 

We're 14th in ISO at .146.

 

(LAA is at .141 and MN is at .157)

[Bellhorn04]

We're 14th in ISO at .146.

 

(LAA is at .141 and MN is at .157)

 

So we really are punchless wonders.

 

We get on base pretty well but ground into a lot of DP's, run into a lot of outs and have little power.

[Kimmi]

What it says to me is that they seem to be aggressive to a fault. I think there is a way to run aggressively without running foolishly. Seems they are no longer toeing the line between aggressive and foolish.

 

Whether they are pressing for offense, the players just doing whatever they want or an organizational philosophy, it doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

 

I'm not sure if they are aggressive to a fault. They make the most OOBs, but that is likely a result of them taking more chances than other teams. The question is, do the extra bases that they take successfully outweigh the times they get thrown out?

 

According to Fangraphs UBR stat, which measures exactly that type of thing, the Sox are +3.7 runs in that category, which puts them 8th in baseball. This does not include stolen bases or caught stealing. So perhaps the aggressiveness is worth it?

[Nick]

So we really are punchless wonders.

 

We get on base pretty well but ground into a lot of DP's, run into a lot of outs and have little power.

 

"besides THAT, how did you enjoy the show Mrs. Lincoln?"

[Kimmi]

No doubt, but as I said in another thread, the Sox are 11th in the league in SLG. 11th out of 15! That is really bad.

 

I am not disagreeing with our lack of power. I'm just saying that even with that, we should be scoring more runs than we have.

[Kimmi]

So we really are punchless wonders.

 

We get on base pretty well but ground into a lot of DP's, run into a lot of outs and have little power.

 

The DPs are a problem.

[Emp9]

I'm not sure if they are aggressive to a fault. They make the most OOBs, but that is likely a result of them taking more chances than other teams.

 

Ok, but why is that? Why do you think they feel the need to take more chances than other teams?

[Emp9]

The DPs are a problem.

 

Yes. I Very much agree.

[Kimmi]

Ok, but why is that? Why do you think they feel the need to take more chances than other teams?

 

I get that they are trying to score runs that aren't coming via home runs. I am not saying that scoring runs hasn't been a problem. Believe me when I say that I am as frustrated as anyone else by our offense.

[mvp 78]

Sorry,I missed OOB. No mouse on this laptop and in general I can only take so many acronyms in one sitting. 29 this year's league avg, last season the league avg was 54. That's a huge league drop. 65 OOB last season for the Sox.

 

This year's league average is only a partial season. The league is on pace to match last year's average.

[mvp 78]

I know someone that could help

[Emp9]

This year's league average is only a partial season. The league is on pace to match last year's average.

 

Is it on pace, good. I wonder how much Sept. call-ups contribute to it's presumable increase?

[Maxbialystock]

I like the stats and agree they have meaning, but I also watch the pitcher-hitter confrontations and offer the following--

 

Pedroia seems to be the only real student of the game who is hard to fool. He likes to take that first pitch, but will also swing at and probably hit a fat first pitch.

 

Bogaerts, Moreland, and HanRam in particular seem to go to the plate with not a thought in their heads and by and large no ability to discriminate between a breaking ball and a fast ball. Bogaerts is sometimes saved by his remarkable hand-eye coordination, but he is still clueless at the plate. HanRam is further affected by an apparent desire to swing as hard as possible when he does swing although lately his helmet isn't falling off as frequently as it once did.

 

Benintendi and I think JBJ do discriminate somewhat, but JBJ's swing still tends to betray him. Both benefit from hitting from the left side.

 

Young also has a good eye for balls and strikes, but can't hit spit anyway.

 

Betts will nail you if you throw him a fat pitch, but otherwise he is not hard to get out.

 

Almost no one on the Sox is good at hitting a breaking balls solidly, but almost all are great at hitting them onto the ground and into double plays when the other team needs them.

 

Most opposing pitchers will throw first pitch strikes with some assurance that our guys are sticking to Bill James's injunction to get a walk, which means to take pitches no matter what. Betts in particular tends to get into 1-2 and 0-2 counts because he thinks he is supposed to get a walk.

 

Brock Holt is not going to be an improvement over Lin/Marrero at 3b.

[Examiner]

The Sox have hitters?

[sk7326]

I like the stats and agree they have meaning, but I also watch the pitcher-hitter confrontations and offer the following--

 

Pedroia seems to be the only real student of the game who is hard to fool. He likes to take that first pitch, but will also swing at and probably hit a fat first pitch.

 

Bogaerts, Moreland, and HanRam in particular seem to go to the plate with not a thought in their heads and by and large no ability to discriminate between a breaking ball and a fast ball. Bogaerts is sometimes saved by his remarkable hand-eye coordination, but he is still clueless at the plate. HanRam is further affected by an apparent desire to swing as hard as possible when he does swing although lately his helmet isn't falling off as frequently as it once did.

 

Benintendi and I think JBJ do discriminate somewhat, but JBJ's swing still tends to betray him. Both benefit from hitting from the left side.

 

Young also has a good eye for balls and strikes, but can't hit spit anyway.

 

Betts will nail you if you throw him a fat pitch, but otherwise he is not hard to get out.

 

Almost no one on the Sox is good at hitting a breaking balls solidly, but almost all are great at hitting them onto the ground and into double plays when the other team needs them.

 

Most opposing pitchers will throw first pitch strikes with some assurance that our guys are sticking to Bill James's injunction to get a walk, which means to take pitches no matter what. Betts in particular tends to get into 1-2 and 0-2 counts because he thinks he is supposed to get a walk.

 

Brock Holt is not going to be an improvement over Lin/Marrero at 3b.

 

Bogaerts is one of the league's toughest to strike out. He is in a slump - that will likely pass.

 

Betts is so not hard to get out he was runner up in MVP last year.

 

Outside of Bradley, none of the Big 3 are 25 yet. To write epitaphs for them is utterly batty. The team is actually the hardest to strike out (or had been for most of the year - Astros might have passed them, I have not looked) in the league. It's just a rough patch right now.

[Maxbialystock]

Bogaerts is one of the league's toughest to strike out. He is in a slump - that will likely pass.

 

Betts is so not hard to get out he was runner up in MVP last year.

 

Outside of Bradley, none of the Big 3 are 25 yet. To write epitaphs for them is utterly batty. The team is actually the hardest to strike out (or had been for most of the year - Astros might have passed them, I have not looked) in the league. It's just a rough patch right now.

 

I am actually happy that you disagree and choose to defend our hitters. Someone should. But just for the sake of argument, I would still point out--

 

Betts this year ain't Betts last year. In particular his avg. has dropped from .316 to .274. He, by the way, is the one who is hard to strike out, not Bogaerts.

 

I had/have no intention of writing epitaphs. In fact, I hope Kimmi's optimism about this lineup comes to fruition. So your point is well taken. In fact, I hope DD doesn't bring in someone from outside and would rather these guys just find themselves.

 

The age 25 thing works better when you don't remember that for both Betts and Bogaerts this is their 4th season in Boston. Betts has over 1800 mlb at bats and Bogaerts over 2200. Benintendi has 428 mlb at bats and is hitting almost as well as Betts and better than Bogaerts.

 

About the striking out. Either I miswrote or you misread, but my intent was to say that our guys are not making solid contact with the ball. In fact, it sometimes worries me when our starting pitchers accumulate a lot of K's because that usually takes more pitches. Too often what opposing pitchers seem to do well is to get out guys to hit the ball up high or down in the dirt--either way, an easy out--and to do that early in the count.

[Bellhorn04]

Bogaerts is one of the league's toughest to strike out. He is in a slump - that will likely pass.

 

Betts is so not hard to get out he was runner up in MVP last year.

 

Outside of Bradley, none of the Big 3 are 25 yet. To write epitaphs for them is utterly batty. The team is actually the hardest to strike out (or had been for most of the year - Astros might have passed them, I have not looked) in the league. It's just a rough patch right now.

 

You're a very level-leaded person and I truly respect that, but I think our offensive numbers reflect a little more than a rough patch. This offense has struggled most of the season, with a few periodic outbursts.

[a700hitter]

Good pitching can always stop good hitting. Any pitching can stop our hitting. It will be a quick exit from the playoffs if we make it that far unless our pitchers hurl shutouts.

[S5Dewey]

Good pitching can always stop good hitting. Any pitching can stop our hitting. It will be a quick exit from the playoffs if we make it that far unless our pitchers hurl shutouts.

 

That's a post I can get on board with. I've been saying for some time that this team has a lot of trouble hitting even mediocre pitching but they can kick the snot out of bad pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not a bad offense, but it's a mediocre offense.

[Kimmi]

Bogaerts is one of the league's toughest to strike out. He is in a slump - that will likely pass.

 

Betts is so not hard to get out he was runner up in MVP last year.

 

Outside of Bradley, none of the Big 3 are 25 yet. To write epitaphs for them is utterly batty. The team is actually the hardest to strike out (or had been for most of the year - Astros might have passed them, I have not looked) in the league. It's just a rough patch right now.

 

Bogaerts is still battling a wrist/hand injury, which is the reason we've been seeing a lot of weird swings.

 

I'm wondering if these guys are trying to do too much, trying to hit home runs, trying to pull everything which often leads to weak grounders. Are they going the opposite way less?

[Hugh2]

I believe that good pitching beats good hitting, but you have to score. If the hitting is too anemic like it was during that extra innings game against NY you will lose in the playoffs with good pitching.

 

We have good pitching, the pitching is good enough to where our hitting doesn't have to be elite......but it has to get better than this if we expect a title run anytime soon.

[Bellhorn04]

Bogaerts is still battling a wrist/hand injury, which is the reason we've been seeing a lot of weird swings.

 

I'm wondering if these guys are trying to do too much, trying to hit home runs, trying to pull everything which often leads to weak grounders. Are they going the opposite way less?

 

There are so many possible explanations. I've been thinking the Yankee pitchers must have great game plans on us, because they have eaten us alive.

[sk7326]

You're a very level-leaded person and I truly respect that, but I think our offensive numbers reflect a little more than a rough patch. This offense has struggled most of the season, with a few periodic outbursts.

 

I am worried for sure - 3B has been a sinkhole. There have not been enough homeruns. Kids that age (and responding to another post - the age matters more here than the experience per se) are expected to get better - and unfortunately that has not happened enough. Combine that with Ramirez largely being blah and there you have it. You can absorb's Ortiz' loss if you get increases from the other spots - and that has not happened in the power department.

 

It is weird that this team has won by being a pitching and defense team mostly - but there you go. They absolutely need another corner bat.

[sk7326]

Bogaerts is still battling a wrist/hand injury, which is the reason we've been seeing a lot of weird swings.

 

I'm wondering if these guys are trying to do too much, trying to hit home runs, trying to pull everything which often leads to weak grounders. Are they going the opposite way less?

 

There might be some pressing. I also think that sometimes you just need something good to happen - really what has happened is the players have all been - not bad, but sort of in the 40-50th percentile of their expected outcomes when you'd like it to have at least a couple blossom a bit more.

[Kimmi]

The good news is, it seems that managers are coming around somewhat in terms of putting their best OBP guy in the lead off spot and putting one of their best hitters in the #2 spot.

 

Farrell's explanation of batting Mookie in the lead off spot:

 

Farrell said it’s a sign of changing approaches to the way lineups are put together across baseball.

 

“I think over the past probably five, six years, lineup construction has taken a completely different look,” Farrell said. “Where so many teams are looking at the No. 3 spot in the order as the most pivotal — that’s your best hitter — a lot of teams now are putting that team in the two-hole.

 

“I’m sure there’s a lot of debate, a lot of sabermetric approach that goes into your so-called best hitter. The bottom line is you want your guys that get on base the most to get to the plate the most often. So you stack the top of your order the best you can.”

 

Somebody is putting these thoughts into Farrell's (and other manager's) head, and as much as I'd like to take credit for it, it's not me.

[MADSTORK]

What did the same Manager do last year when Betts got hot with the long ball? He dropped him to 3rd or 4th in the order....

 

The logic of Farrell has gotten old. It makes no sense to bat Betts leadoff when your 7 8 9 hitters cannot get on base or have a collective OBPCT of .300

[oldtimer]

Bogaerts is one of the league's toughest to strike out. He is in a slump - that will likely pass.

 

Betts is so not hard to get out he was runner up in MVP last year.

 

Outside of Bradley, none of the Big 3 are 25 yet. To write epitaphs for them is utterly batty. The team is actually the hardest to strike out (or had been for most of the year - Astros might have passed them, I have not looked) in the league. It's just a rough patch right now.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=12161&position=SS&season=0&split=2.8

 

This is the fangraphs stats for the 2nd half for the years he has been a Red Sox. He has had one good year and the rest he had a BA of around 250. It would be unfair to show his 167 BA in this years 2nd half due to his injury. There is a trend there for him to suffer a substantial drop off in the second half. Look at the stats and reconcile them with his value to the team. He characteristically has a blazing hot first half, so what happens?

[Bellhorn04]

It seems that Bogaerts has been playing with an injured right hand and that's probably a big part of the recent slump. Now he's having an MRI on it. Ugh.