Postseason Happenings 2016

[Examiner]

Game 157: L

Game 158: L

Game 159: L

Game 160: W

Game 161: L

Game 162: L

 

Playoff Game 1: L

Playoff Game 2: L

Playoff Game 3: L

 

3 for his last 20

 

I don't blame him per say, but at the same time I think the goodbye tour thing is ridiculous and should be stopped. He looked awful at NY, and that's where it all started. He was trying to hit a HR every at bat to show off to Yankees fans, very UN-Ortiz-like. I don't think there's any question whatsoever that in the same way the Marathon bombing worked as a cohesive, this retirement tour worked as a distraction, or at least got the guys all saying "we gotta win for Papi" instead of focusing on what needed to be done on the field in order to make it actually happen. Never once in this entire season did the team have a laser focus that led to any consistency. I've seen this for months and because of it have said all along that they are pretenders. But when Kimbrel blew that save in NY that kept them from clinching on the YS field, I knew it was over and started thread that same night that said as much. Pretenders.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Examiner

[Bellhorn04]

Everybody's got their little theories on what the hell happened. It's all part of the trip called being a sports fan, I think.

[sk7326]

I 100% blame our quick exit to the Papi Retirement Tour effect. 100%. way too much focus on 1 man the final week of the season. honestly way too much focus on 1 man the entire season. i 100% think David Ortiz is the Greatest Red Sox Player of all time. i also think David Ortiz was 100% selfish having a retirement tour and not waiting until after the season ends to announce the end of his playing career.

best of luck in your after baseball life Papi. but you and i both know that your retirement tour cost the 2016 Red Sox. big league.

 

Hoo boy. The team lost because it got two rotten starts when they needed zero. That's it. (and yes, I know they scored 0 runs in one of the games) This team won 93 games, won 11 in a row during their most crucial stretch of the season and lapped the field on offense with a core which is (mostly) not even 27 yet.

 

Papi had his best season during this tour, so he was clearly distracted.

[sk7326]

i 100% believe the David Price contract will be an albatross the next 6 seasons. Eff Price. he is exactly who i thought he was.

 

Given the rate of salary inflation (read: the industry is swimming in cash) and his durability - there is almost no chance this will truly be an albatross. Heck, it's effectively a three year deal. Any FA deal is buying decline for the most part.

[Examiner]

Hoo boy. The team lost because it got two rotten starts when they needed zero. That's it. (and yes, I know they scored 0 runs in one of the games) This team won 93 games, won 11 in a row during their most crucial stretch of the season and lapped the field on offense with a core which is (mostly) not even 27 yet.

 

Papi had his best season during this tour, so he was clearly distracted.

 

Nobody said Papi was distracted, at least not until the NY series and the last week. I don't think there's any question he was pressing at the end. My gripe is against the whole tour period, and the fact that the team never gelled like the 2013 team did, and it SHOULD have, the talent was there. I think the tour was PART of the problem, not necessarily all. I think it may have hurt more than it helped to be honest.

[moonslav59]

Nobody said Papi was distracted, at least not until the NY series and the last week. I don't think there's any question he was pressing at the end. My gripe is against the whole tour period, and the fact that the team never gelled like the 2013 team did, and it SHOULD have, the talent was there. I think the tour was PART of the problem, not necessarily all. I think it may have hurt more than it helped to be honest.

 

We "gelled" on the 11 game win streak.

[Bellhorn04]

The 2013 team had Lester and Lackey.

[Kimmi]

It's sad that this team was so pathetic that they let Papi go out like this. I thought it from opening day, and have rarely said anything else, and have posted threads about it on this site: this team is not a champion, they do not have what it takes like the '13 team did. They were done before they even started. I suspected it all along, but the moment I really knew it was when Kimbrel blew that save in New York. That was the final red flag that this is a team of pretenders with plastic numbers that meant very little because other than the winning streak, they almost never came back late in the game. And, in all honesty, not believing they had it, I'd rather see them go out as soon as possible or not make it at all. I'm not one of those fans who says they'd love to see their team in the World Series even if they lose. No way, win it all or go home, and not from day one have I thought this team would win it all. What really bothers me is that we will never see Papi again, and it's like these guys either didn't care, or cared so much that they were unable to focus on doing what it takes, bad both ways. They were an inconsistent team with no real cohesive identity who showed occasional signs of cohesion--just enough to torment you. Like I said, always suspected as much, but knew it in NY, and my Kimbrel and Price thread proves it. Mostly I feel bad for Papi, he's a true champion and will be missed. It will never be the same without him.

 

It would have been nice for Papi to win another ring, but regardless, he is a champion and he went out on top. The Sox won the division, a very good division I might add, so all of the stuff you're saying about them not being a championship team or not having what it takes is garbage.

 

The playoffs are a crap shoot. Anything can and does happen in a short series. It has nothing to do with a team not having what it takes. If they didn't have what it takes, they wouldn't have made it to the playoffs to begin with.

[Kimmi]

A great season. We saw a lot of growth from some players that should play key roles going froward. A couple of my random thoughts are that home field sure as hell does make a difference. Cleveland more than proved it. The playoff atmosphere is super charged. It really is nothing like the regular season. These players aren't robots and the games are not decided on their acquired yearly statistics. Once again, it isn't strat-o-matic baseball. Also, many have you have been very adamant that it is about the pitching. You are right. I totally expect that someone will be added to our starting rotation which wasn't all that bad throughout the course of the regular season. Personally, it is about the slow steady march to be in a position to play meaning full baseball in October. This was an enjoyable experience.

 

I will ask you the same question that I asked Georom. Why do you think that HFA made no difference to the Rangers?

[Kimmi]

Everybody's got their little theories on what the hell happened. It's all part of the trip called being a sports fan, I think.

 

Personally, I think the retirement tour is what fueled Papi to have such a great season, and also what fueled the Sox to the division title. Okay, maybe not the actual tour, but the fact that everyone knew this was Papi's last year.

[Kimmi]

The 2013 team had Lester and Lackey.

 

Do you not think that Price and Porcello should have been able to match Lester and Lackey?

[Bellhorn04]

Do you not think that Price and Porcello should have been able to match Lester and Lackey?

 

I can't help but have my doubts about the ability of Price and Porcello to step up in playoff games. They have no postseason pedigree. Lester and Lackey do. I can't explain it but the history is there.

 

Price in particular - how many postseason chances can he blow?

[iortiz]

I can't help but have my doubts about the ability of Price and Porcello to step up in playoff games. They have no postseason pedigree. Lester and Lackey do. I can't explain it but the history is there.

 

Price in particular - how many postseason chances can he blow?

With Lester and Lackey, the history would have been other --better IMO--, that's for sure.

[Kimmi]

I can't help but have my doubts about the ability of Price and Porcello to step up in playoff games. They have no postseason pedigree. Lester and Lackey do. I can't explain it but the history is there.

 

Price in particular - how many postseason chances can he blow?

 

I'm not saying that I prefer Price and Porcello over Lester and Lackey. I have criticized the FO often for the Lester fiasco. I'm just saying that the former should be able to match up fairly well with the latter.

 

I don't put a whole lot of credence into the postseason pedigree thing. Though Price is trying his darnedest to prove me wrong.

[cp176]

I will ask you the same question that I asked Georom. Why do you think that HFA made no difference to the Rangers?

 

Doesn't always work out for sure but I'm going with the fact that over 80% of the teams playing mlb had better records at home as opposed to on the road. Those are odds I like.

[mvp 78]

Do you not think that Price and Porcello should have been able to match Lester and Lackey?

 

Lester has performed in the postseason, Price hasn't.

[sk7326]

Nobody said Papi was distracted, at least not until the NY series and the last week. I don't think there's any question he was pressing at the end. My gripe is against the whole tour period, and the fact that the team never gelled like the 2013 team did, and it SHOULD have, the talent was there. I think the tour was PART of the problem, not necessarily all. I think it may have hurt more than it helped to be honest.

 

The 2013 team was better. Better starters, better bullpen and a lineup only slightly worse. They were the league's best team basically every day of the season. The 2016 team didn't achieve that magic because the pitching was garbage for about half the season. And then when that got fixed the team took off. This year's end was annoying - but this year represents nothing but progress. Was Ortiz pressing? Maybe in the playoff series - but the Guardians pitched well throughout, and Francona managed the bullpen very aggressively (like a guy who was an underdog). It happens. Ortiz has had rough series too - just not a lot of them.

[sk7326]

While he did choose to "walk", I don't see him as a traitor.

 

I think he saw his relationship with his superiors as eroded and maybe untenable.

 

If I found myself in a similar position and there was a good offer awaiting me elsewhere I would probably moved on as well.

 

40 is too young to be in the same job until you die - the relationship with the superiors was not amazing, and perhaps he just wanted to do something else

[Spudboy]

This team is not as good as the 2013 team. It has tremendous upside but not as much finish.

 

2017 and 2018 they have to be better.

[Spudboy]

40 is too young to be in the same job until you die - the relationship with the superiors was not amazing, and perhaps he just wanted to do something else

 

Yes. Good points.

[Bellhorn04]

This team is not as good as the 2013 team. It has tremendous upside but not as much finish.

 

2017 and 2018 they have to be better.

 

Everything went right for the 2013 team. Ellsbury, Victorino and Drew had great years - and after that they were pretty much done.

[mvp 78]

Everything went right for the 2013 team. Ellsbury, Victorino and Drew had great years - and after that they were pretty much done.

 

Salty had a career best WAR.

 

Napoli's WAR approximates his total WAR for the following 3 years.

 

Buchholz had 2.8 WAR in half a season.

 

Lot's of things went right for the Sox that year.

[mvp 78]

Do you guys still want to sign EE for 100M even if he's attached to a QO?

[TylerD]

Lester has performed in the postseason, Price hasn't.

 

Agreed with thus. No way was I expecting Price to match Lester. Porcello is a different story because he has had such a fantastic year. But with that sad our hitters saved him a few times and we were against a good Guardians team so I was still a bit nervous.... over all we can all say we expected a better performance out of both but matching Lester is tough to do.

[mvp 78]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/boston-red-sox-team-stats?season=2016&category=BATTING&group=1&time=2

 

The hitters didn't help that much either.

[illinoisredsox]

Everything went right for the 2013 team. Ellsbury, Victorino and Drew had great years - and after that they were pretty much done.

 

So very true. It went further than that. Koji came out of basically no where to put up one of the greatest years a reliever has ever had. Mike Carp and Daniel Nava had the best year of their careers.

 

The core of that team was much older than their 2016 cousins. Among the regulars and semi-regulars, Middlebrooks was 24, Saltalamacchia 28 and Carp 27, and none of them were the mainstays of the team. Pedroia and Ellsbury were 29 but had been around for 6-7 years. The others were 30+. A stark contrast to this year's club.

[S5Dewey]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/boston-red-sox-team-stats?season=2016&category=BATTING&group=1&time=2

 

The hitters didn't help that much either.

 

Wow. I didn't realize our hitters were THAT bad. We had three hitters who had an OPS greater than .667 and those three had 21 (out of 98 total) AB's between them.

 

So in a nutshell, other than the pitching and the hitting the team did just fine.

 

Sometimes it's not who you play, it's when you play them. The story for most of the year was that either the offense or the defense would be 'clicking', and then toward the end of the year both the "O" and the "D" caught fire at the same time. Unfortunately all that fire went out during the playoffs, making them look worse on national tv than they really were.

 

I still believe the 2016 Sox are a good team who caught a slump at the wrong time. Sometimes s*** happens, and for no apparent reason.

[greenwell]

Given the rate of salary inflation (read: the industry is swimming in cash) and his durability - there is almost no chance this will truly be an albatross. Heck, it's effectively a three year deal. Any FA deal is buying decline for the most part.

 

How is this effectively a 3 year deal? Are you counting on Price opting out if he doesn't think he's worth the money?

[oldtimer]

Wow. I didn't realize our hitters were THAT bad. We had three hitters who had an OPS greater than .667 and those three had 21 (out of 98 total) AB's between them.

 

So in a nutshell, other than the pitching and the hitting the team did just fine.

 

Sometimes it's not who you play, it's when you play them. The story for most of the year was that either the offense or the defense would be 'clicking', and then toward the end of the year both the "O" and the "D" caught fire at the same time. Unfortunately all that fire went out during the playoffs, making them look worse on national tv than they really were.

 

I still believe the 2016 Sox are a good team who caught a slump at the wrong time. Sometimes s*** happens, and for no apparent reason.

 

You can choose to believe that, but the fact is we played poorly for several series before Cleveland. We just had too many flaws to move ahead. The real question is can we do enough to be near the top again in 2017. Cleveland had two top pitchers out who will return next year. Count on the Yankees to be in the market in a very competitive push to surpass us next year. We have had countless inputs to threads identifying our weak areas. Third base, catcher, DH, RPs and possibly one SP. If DD can fill at least some of those voids through the FA and trade markets, then we should be very competitive. In addition, we are hoping that some of our coaches/manager can have an impact on a player like JBJ to improve him at the plate.

[mvp 78]

Dombrowski stated that the main job of the manager is to keep the ship running, not tactical maneuvers. It's the organizational philosophy at the moment. If you don't agree, you'll just have to hold your nose until Dombrowski is gone.