Postseason Happenings 2016

[cp176]

I am not sure who is bashing Farrell for not getting HFA. I think he probably could have done a better job in that final week, but like you, I have not bashed the simpleton about this.

 

One thing that I have learned over the years here is that it seems as though having a middle ground opinion doesn't cut it. If you disagree about something just a little bit, you must be totally against it and if you agree with something just a little bit, you must totally favor it. I listen to and learn from all opinions before I make up my mind about something. When discussing a topic like HFA - whether it is or isn't - I tend to think that there really might be good reason to listen to the folk who have been in the battle to achieve it. How much of a difference it makes isn't important to me at all. I've been there and I know that it makes a difference. Can you beat a team that has HFA? - of course!

[Bellhorn04]

Of course Farrell's been getting bashed about it. Not by you two, but by plenty of others.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing that I have learned over the years here is that it seems as though having a middle ground opinion doesn't cut it. If you disagree about something just a little bit, you must be totally against it and if you agree with something just a little bit, you must totally favor it. I listen to and learn from all opinions before I make up my mind about something. When discussing a topic like HFA - whether it is or isn't - I tend to think that there really might be good reason to listen to the folk who have been in the battle to achieve it. How much of a difference it makes isn't important to me at all. I've been there and I know that it makes a difference. Can you beat a team that has HFA? - of course!

 

cp176, as with many topics on the forum, this one has gone from a molehill to a mountain. The only real point is that there is an HFA in the baseball playoffs but it's a very small one. For some reason that simple fact leads to an endless discussion.

[Dojji]

And lost in the discussion is the bizarre assumption that because Farrell failed to gain HFA, he clearly didn't want it.

[cp176]

And lost in the discussion is the bizarre assumption that because Farrell failed to gain HFA, he clearly didn't want it.

 

I heard this on one talk show. I wrote it off as just another dufous trying to sell their show by stirring up some controversy. My opinion is that I (we - being careful here) would be better off with a lot less media.

[Kimmi]

I must have arrived late to the party once again. Any of my comments have been directed at my personal feelings about what I feel the importance of HFA is. There are other things that are more important of course than going all out here for the sake of attaining the HFA. I might disagree with you about who needed to be rested and how much they needed to have but that is an entirely different discussion. I get your point. My point is simply that to me HFA is and will always be something that I think is quite important. That being said, i'm not sure that John Farrell is really in any way responsible for us not getting it. i really did miss the part about this discussion being about a criticism of Farrell.

 

There are a few posters here who have been bashing Farrell for not playing for HFA. My posts have been mostly in defense of that criticism against Farrell.

 

That said, I have to disagree with your opinion that HFA is 'quite important'. Over the course of an entire regular season, okay. In the playoffs, it's simply not true.

[Kimmi]

cp176, as with many topics on the forum, this one has gone from a molehill to a mountain. The only real point is that there is an HFA in the baseball playoffs but it's a very small one. For some reason that simple fact leads to an endless discussion.

 

Because there are people who, despite what they say, have been disputing that simple fact.

[S5Dewey]

I heard this on one talk show. I wrote it off as just another dufous trying to sell their show by stirring up some controversy. My opinion is that I (we - being careful here) would be better off with a lot less media.

 

Yep. I still blame the New York newspaper strike in 1978 for the Sox not winning the pennant that year. That was the year the Sox blew the big lead in September and the Yankees caught fire that same month to win the division by one game. I've always thought that the lack of controversy newspapers created in NY allowed the more talented (?) Yankees to focus on the game and overtake the Sox.

 

And BTW, in a related topic, I watched the "Snowden" movie last night and I highly recommend it. It asks some very interesting questions about our right to privacy vs. national security.

[Dojji]

I heard this on one talk show. I wrote it off as just another dufous trying to sell their show by stirring up some controversy. My opinion is that I (we - being careful here) would be better off with a lot less media.

 

That I actually agree with. I don't consume sports media of any kind when I can avoid it. I always form my own opinion.

[a700hitter]

Because there are people who, despite what they say, have been disputing that simple fact.

Who?

[Slasher9]

And lost in the discussion is the bizarre assumption that because Farrell failed to gain HFA, he clearly didn't want it.

 

he definitely wanted it because he knows it is an advantage but unfortunately he was too busy catering to all the david ortiz farewell tour happenings.

[SoxnCycles]

Of course you take home field advantage, all other things being equal. My point is that you don't play all out for home field advantage at the expense of other advantages. There are other things that are more important. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

The simplest concepts slip right by some people...

[SoxnCycles]

he definitely wanted it because he knows it is an advantage but unfortunately he was too busy catering to all the david ortiz farewell tour happenings.

 

Ok, what exactly did he have to do differently because of the farewell tour?

[Bellhorn04]

Ok, what exactly did he have to do differently because of the farewell tour?

 

Come on, couldn't you see the distraction and stress written all over JF's face?

[SoxnCycles]

Come on, couldn't you see the distraction and stress written all over JF's face?

 

I can see the demands of all the festivies taking a lot out of Ortiz, particularly after a long season.

But, unless the rest of the team was forced to substantially alter their routines, I can't see how it would affect them.

 

If it's about the kids putting pressure on themselves to send Ortiz out with a another ring, that pressure would be there with, or without the farewell ceremonies.

[Slasher9]

Ok, what exactly did he have to do differently because of the farewell tour?

 

im just being stupid. as kimmie schooled me earlier this really wasnt a thing. but i spent alot of energy 2014 season crucifying the NYY for the derek jeter tour and how that distracted them from making the playoffs. so while it is probably 99.9% true that it had no bearing on the final week of the season...i still hold out that 0.01% chance that it cost us HFA....

[mvp 78]

he definitely wanted it because he knows it is an advantage but unfortunately he was too busy catering to all the david ortiz farewell tour happenings.

 

Too busy with Jessica Moran. Sad!

[S5Dewey]

I just hope these things haven't set a precedent that becomes the norm. I believe that when a player retires it's appropriate for the Home Team to make a big deal of it, but parading him around the country in a "victory tour" is both embarrassing and distracting. Of course, I'm a believe that usually Less is More.

[SoxnCycles]

im just being stupid. as kimmie schooled me earlier this really wasnt a thing. but i spent alot of energy 2014 season crucifying the NYY for the derek jeter tour and how that distracted them from making the playoffs. so while it is probably 99.9% true that it had no bearing on the final week of the season...i still hold out that 0.01% chance that it cost us HFA....

 

I agree, both farewell tours were a little over the top.

 

I think an emotional let down, after winning the division with an 11 game win streak, had as much to do with it as anything else.

Hopefully, the younger members of the staff have learned from it.

 

And trade Price...

[mvp 78]

I just hope these things haven't set a precedent that becomes the norm. I believe that when a player retires it's appropriate for the Home Team to make a big deal of it, but parading him around the country in a "victory tour" is both embarrassing and distracting. Of course, I'm a believe that usually Less is More.

 

Opposing teams do it to help fill their ballpark. I bet the Padres ownership enjoyed all the Sox fans that came out to see Papi one last time.

[Dojji]

I just hope these things haven't set a precedent that becomes the norm. I believe that when a player retires it's appropriate for the Home Team to make a big deal of it, but parading him around the country in a "victory tour" is both embarrassing and distracting. Of course, I'm a believe that usually Less is More.

 

The only players that got that kind of publicity were living legends in their time -- Mo Rivera, Ortiz, and Derek Jeter are several cuts above the everyday superstar and did some amazing things on the diamond, and IIRC they're the only guys who got this kind of sustained attention.

[Spudboy]

The only players that got that kind of publicity were living legends in their time -- Mo Rivera, Ortiz, and Derek Jeter are several cuts above the everyday superstar and did some amazing things on the diamond, and IIRC they're the only guys who got this kind of sustained attention.

 

While this is true, we live in a society that awards participation ribbons and trophies.

 

It is not out of the realm of possibility that lesser players will eventually get these celebrations.

 

Especially if it makes money.

[mvp 78]

What current player would deserve a farewell tour?

 

Trout?

Cabrera?

Kershaw?

Verlander?

[Dojji]

All of the players so honored thus far have had a combination of great careers, a strong presence both on and off the field, and dynamic moments in the postseason that cemented their legacy. The only active player I could see getting that kind of recognition when he goes is Ichiro, who has the international panache and recognition factor to make up for the lack of postseason appearances. Pujols was on track a few years ago, but recent seasons really hurt him.

 

To be honest, it's not really in the nature of most players to announce their retirement before they actually retire. Generally speaking by the time a player is ready to go it's often because their league is ready to see the back of them. If a player can depart the league on good terms, while teams might still be interested in paying them, that's pretty exceptional in and of itself.

[sk7326]

Ortiz' career had a confluence of things which are hard to imitate and stand outside of baseball to some degree:

 

1. He was a central principal in breaking the curse. And more than that - he had three walk off hits in that postseason ... how many people get that many chances, let alone cash them in

2. He never left - and was a heck of a comeback story, both from his time in Minnesota as well as his mid-career swoon in Boston which was overcome so completely that almost nobody remembers it.

3. He is the common thread through the entirety of the most productive era in modern Sox history

4. He enjoyed being famous. He was not an aw shucks sort - he loved the crowd back.

5. He was such a departure from the staid, racially problematic historical nature of the team. Not that he would not have been as beloved without it, but it infused a freshness and fun and energy to the proceedings which were historically very un-Red Sox with rare exceptions (like one with mutton chops and a very goofy looking wind up).

 

One of the heroes if the Cubs win it all will be a natural choice. The players cited are all good choices, but you have to have a banner - it would be hard to do it otherwise.

 

Andrew Miller could take on "folk hero" status, but that is a separate issue.

[a700hitter]

The simplest concepts slip right by some people...

But no one said anything different.

[Kimmi]

But no one said anything different.

 

Yes, they have. Yourself included, thought not in so many words.

[a700hitter]

Yes, they have. Yourself included, thought not in so many words.

Don't put words in my mouth. I said no such thing about getting HFA at the expense of other advantages. Not at all. You and a few others do a lot of tilting at windmills. Edited October 17, 2016 by a700hitter

[Kimmi]

Don't put words in my mouth. I said no such thing about getting HFA at the expense of other advantages. Not at all. You and a few others do a lot of tilting at windmills.

 

Ha.

[a700hitter]

Ha.

That's all you got?