The Benintendi Thread

[moonslav59]

He is not going to get ABs from Betts, Bradley or Ortiz. He will only take ABs from Benintendi, andI am not sure that he give us anything additional over Benintendi that would warrant playing him 2-3 times a week.

 

Papi could use a rest here and there, and he has struggled vs LHPs for 2 seasons now. I'm certainly not calling for a platoon of Papi, but he could maybe sit 2-3 games vs lefties once Young returns. Betts and JBJ could maybe get one day off (maybe 2 depending on the race) in September, so that makes 4-6 total. Assuming we might face 9-10 lefties once Young returns, Beni would only need to sit maybe 3-6 games vs lefties. It wouldn't have to be every game, is more of the point.

[moonslav59]

Your love for platoons is out of hand:p:cool:

Benni should be the FT Lfer...maybe Young can spell them ONCE IN A WHILE, but there should be no platoons in the OF moving forward now that we have the killer B's out there.

Young is signed for one more year. He can help PH and PR or maybe give someone a rest. Thats it.

 

I have never advocated a Beni-Young platoon. I see Beni as our FT LF'er too.

 

My whole position has been about Young being our DH vs LHPs next year aand how that squeezes out the need to sign a big bat DH type and may squeeze the corner IF/DH slots open next year, if Moncada wins the 3B job.Beni has never played a long season like this, so if we want him fresh for the playoffs, I do not think sitting him 3-5 games vs the 9-10 lefties we might face down the stretch is such a bad idea. (See my post before on allocating days off when Young starts.) Also, once a righty is brought in, a switch can be made, especially in September once rosters are expanded.

 

[moonslav59]

I think people are overestimating Beni just a bit. I predict a sophomore slump. He's not yet fully established, that might not happen for another 2-3 years. Or it might happen next week, baseball's a funny sport. He's still all exciting potential for now though, and I expect he'll have a few "learning experiences" between now and his first All Star Game.

 

I expect adjustments periods will occur. I just hope they don't happen soon or for long periods of time.

[Kingface]

Papi could use a rest here and there, and he has struggled vs LHPs for 2 seasons now. I'm certainly not calling for a platoon of Papi, but he could maybe sit 2-3 games vs lefties once Young returns. Betts and JBJ could maybe get one day off (maybe 2 depending on the race) in September, so that makes 4-6 total. Assuming we might face 9-10 lefties once Young returns, Beni would only need to sit maybe 3-6 games vs lefties. It wouldn't have to be every game, is more of the point.

 

Struggled??? He has an almost .900 OPS vs LHP this season and is batting .324 against them. Yes his power numbers are not on par (other than RBI's as he actually averages more vs LHP's) but that's going to be the same with pretty much most MLB players. I do agree 100% that he should get rest down the stretch and that should happen against pitchers he does not have a great history against.....but I fail to see why you say he has 'struggled'. Please explain.

[sk7326]

Chris Young has played a lot of games vs RH'd starts, so it's more than just keeping him from cryogenically being frozen....

 

A brief history...

 

We signed Cody Ross in 2012 to play primarily against LHPs, but with injuries and his doing okay (.729) vs RHPs that year, he started 84 games vs RH's starters and 42 vs LH'd starters.

 

We signed Jonny Gomes for 2013-2014 to take Cody's original role as a platoon vs LHPs. He ended up wrestling the RH'd job away from Nava in the post season, before being traded mid-season 2014 during the great red purge. Again, things did not work out as planned. Gomes ended up starting vs a RH'd starter 22 times, which I suppose could be viewed as keeping him fresh, but I remember most were due to injuries or slumps by others. He started only 54 games vs RHPs, which seems low, but he was the FT'er by the World Series. His splits were not as wide as expected: .795 vs LHPs and .745 vs RHPs- both acceptable. However, his disparity in games started by a LHP vs a RHPs were stark: .889 vs .697.

 

In 2014, Gomes started just 16 games vs RHPs (.639 in those games) and 37 vs LHPs (.711 in those games) before being traded. His overall splits were .831/.494- a very significant differential.

 

Chris Young was signed for two years to provide a strong bat vs LHPs. He had started 47 games vs LHPs for the Yanks last year (.953 in those games) and 30 vs RHPs (.567). His overall splits were .972/.585- clearly a platoon player if there ever was one.

 

With Castillo flopping and Holt getting hurt and struggling, Young ended up starting more games vs RHPs than probably planned, then he got hurt himself. His numbers this year:

21 GS'd vs RHPs (.830 OPS in those games)

12 GS'd vs LHPs (.877 OPS in those games)

Splits:

vs RHPs: .734 (not bad)

vs LHPs: 1.042 (super great)

 

When Young returns, I feel he needs to start vs ONLY and EVERY LH'd starter. He's been great vs lefties for many years. His career splits are: .884/.705.

 

 

I disagree - this was not brief

[Spudboy]

I disagree - this was not brief

 

You ain't a rooster poopin'.

[sk7326]

I think people are overestimating Beni just a bit. I predict a sophomore slump. He's not yet fully established, that might not happen for another 2-3 years. Or it might happen next week, baseball's a funny sport. He's still all exciting potential for now though, and I expect he'll have a few "learning experiences" between now and his first All Star Game.

 

He is a baseball player - baseball players have rough spells - that's baseball. None of that is revelatory. The bet the org has made (due to his maturity level, his SEC background, and how he has handled stuff being thrown at him in the past) that he won't soil himself when baseball happens to him. You can see the Matt Carpenter-esque sort of offensive profile ...

[Emp9]

"You can see the Matt Carpenter-esque sort of offensive profile ..."

 

I hope steals more bases than that tho:)

[moonslav59]

I disagree - this was not brief

 

Compared to some of my other posts, it is.

[southpaw777]

I have never advocated a Beni-Young platoon. I see Beni as our FT LF'er too.

 

My whole position has been about Young being our DH vs LHPs next year aand how that squeezes out the need to sign a big bat DH type and may squeeze the corner IF/DH slots open next year, if Moncada wins the 3B job.Beni has never played a long season like this, so if we want him fresh for the playoffs, I do not think sitting him 3-5 games vs the 9-10 lefties we might face down the stretch is such a bad idea. (See my post before on allocating days off when Young starts.) Also, once a righty is brought in, a switch can be made, especially in September once rosters are expanded.

 

 

Oh ok...i must have misunderstood...I still disagree about your suggestion sitting vs the LHP for 3-5 games in a row. I think is a mistake. I dont mind him hitting LHP since hes done a good job at it. Even if Benni goes through the learning curve and some adjustments they should just keep rolling him out there and let him work through things and not panic like they did with Bogey when they picked Drew up for the second time.

[moonslav59]

Oh ok...i must have misunderstood...I still disagree about your suggestion sitting vs the LHP for 3-5 games in a row. I think is a mistake. I dont mind him hitting LHP since hes done a good job at it. Even if Benni goes through the learning curve and some adjustments they should just keep rolling him out there and let him work through things and not panic like they did with Bogey when they picked Drew up for the second time.

 

My position is that Young, when healthy, must play vs all LH'd starters.

 

He's got the 4th best OPS vs LHPs in MLB over a two year sample size.

 

We're paying him $12M to hit vs lefties.

 

How it happens is up to Farrell, but sitting Beni for some of Young's starts is something that should happen for several reasons, one being we can't sit Papi for all of those games, another being we can't sit Betts or JBJ for more than maybe 1-2 games vs lefties and finally, because Beni has never played 140+ games counting playoffs in his life, let alone 110. He's at 115 now (478 PAs).

 

[oldtimer]

Beni certainly hit some tough pitches today, drove in two and scored two. His speed on the bases is also an asset. I would be reluctant to sit him down when he is producing. Young can get at bats by resting some players and by DHing.

[Spudboy]

Beni certainly hit some tough pitches today, drove in two and scored two. His speed on the bases is also an asset. I would be reluctant to sit him down when he is producing. Young can get at bats by resting some players and by DHing.

 

And at least one other oldtimer agrees with you.

[Dojji]

I agree too. I was getting more and more frustrated with the constant benching of Shaw while he was running hot. You don't sit a hot hand, especially not one that needs to learn.

[sk7326]

My position is that Young, when healthy, must play vs all LH'd starters.

 

He's got the 4th best OPS vs LHPs in MLB over a two year sample size.

 

We're paying him $12M to hit vs lefties.

 

How it happens is up to Farrell, but sitting Beni for some of Young's starts is something that should happen for several reasons, one being we can't sit Papi for all of those games, another being we can't sit Betts or JBJ for more than maybe 1-2 games vs lefties and finally, because Beni has never played 140+ games counting playoffs in his life, let alone 110. He's at 115 now (478 PAs).

 

 

the spaghetti monster put Young on this earth to hit lefties. It is why the Sox signed him - as a hedge against Bradley and Holt. When he returns he will play vs every lefty. And if there is a drought in finding lefties to play, he will spell a regular too to keep him sharp. He is lousy against RHP, but in short stretches, his power and patience allow him to not be a total zero in occasional appearances.

[cp176]

And at least one other oldtimer agrees with you.

 

Too much lefty righty lefty righty lefty righty for me. too much platooning I guess for me as well. I would give Benintendi as well as Shaw all of the benefit that they could be given. No every other day - no herky jerky crap. They have to know that they are going to play. They have to be allowed to develop a rhythm to really find out what their potential is.

[Spudboy]

Too much lefty righty lefty righty lefty righty for me. too much platooning I guess for me as well. I would give Benintendi as well as Shaw all of the benefit that they could be given. No every other day - no herky jerky crap. They have to know that they are going to play. They have to be allowed to develop a rhythm to really find out what their potential is.

 

Me too.

[moonslav59]

the spaghetti monster put Young on this earth to hit lefties. It is why the Sox signed him - as a hedge against Bradley and Holt. When he returns he will play vs every lefty. And if there is a drought in finding lefties to play, he will spell a regular too to keep him sharp. He is lousy against RHP, but in short stretches, his power and patience allow him to not be a total zero in occasional appearances.

 

He's actually done okay vs righties this year (.734 OPS). When he starts against a RHP, his OPS in those games has been .830 this year. I'm not saying this small sample size means he should start vs RHPs. I'd only start him vs LHPs. Nobody needs more rest than the occasional LH'd start won't afford them.

[moonslav59]

Too much lefty righty lefty righty lefty righty for me. too much platooning I guess for me as well. I would give Benintendi as well as Shaw all of the benefit that they could be given. No every other day - no herky jerky crap. They have to know that they are going to play. They have to be allowed to develop a rhythm to really find out what their potential is.

 

Some of these guys have long-standing issues vs a righty or a lefty. They've been "working on it" all through the minors and playing FT through the splits to no avail.

 

It's losing baseball to keep playing certain players vs wrong-handed pitchers. It might look neat to have a set line-up everyday, but we need to put the best players out there every day.

 

While I agree, that it seems wrong to give a player a rest day right in the middle of a hot streak, Shaw started losing playing time when he started struggling vs LHPs. Just because Hill has failed to do what he was supposed to do- hit lefties- doesn't mean it was a bad choice made.

 

Benching the 4th best MLB player vs lefties, just so another player doesn't get a bruised ego or lose focus, is something I can never agree with.

 

[cp176]

Some of these guys have long-standing issues vs a righty or a lefty. They've been "working on it" all through the minors and playing FT through the splits to no avail.

 

It's losing baseball to keep playing certain players vs wrong-handed pitchers. It might look neat to have a set line-up everyday, but we need to put the best players out there every day.

 

While I agree, that it seems wrong to give a player a rest day right in the middle of a hot streak, Shaw started losing playing time when he started struggling vs LHPs. Just because Hill has failed to do what he was supposed to do- hit lefties- doesn't mean it was a bad choice made.

 

Benching the 4th best MLB player vs lefties, just so another player doesn't get a bruised ego or lose focus, is something I can never agree with.

 

 

 

Are you trying to make a point about playing time for Young here? I was not really addressing that but I would give him ample opportunity as well - as a 4th outfielder. obviously with an emphasis toward lefties but unlike most I guess, he would just simply get a shot against anyone from me. Once again, using him every 3rd or 4th day and expecting him to blossom is asking too much. Plenty of at bats there for 4 outfielders.

[Dojji]

Some of these guys have long-standing issues vs a righty or a lefty. They've been "working on it" all through the minors and playing FT through the splits to no avail.

 

 

That's true, but it doesn't really describe Mr. Shaw. The fact of the matter is Shaw was the casualty of needing to put Young in the lineup. He doesn't even have a significant sample of PA's against LHP this year, he's still only at 100 total PA's vs left, and those have been scattered so broadly that I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T have issues getting his timing down against lefties, he hasn't had the live-fire time to really see them.

 

Last year Mr. Shaw had a REVERSE SPLIT. He actually hit lefthanded pitching better than right. Platoon issues are not the problem. Farrell using Holt's versatility to make sure that Young's playing time came at the expense of the rookie is the problem.

[sk7326]

Shaw's biggest problem is that his OBP has basically collapsed since the end of May ... while the July OPS looked good, it was held up by the "S" (where "O" is the much more important part of the mix)

[illinoisredsox]

I agree too. I was getting more and more frustrated with the constant benching of Shaw while he was running hot. You don't sit a hot hand, especially not one that needs to learn.

 

Except he wasn't being benched when he was hot, and certainly not "constantly". He started the first 44 games of the season and played in the first 80. Young pinch hit for him late 4 times in the first 7 games; after that, the next inning he missed was game 45 (the 1st game he didn't start all year). Ortiz missed more time than Shaw did the first month, 2 months and 3 months of the season.

 

The first game he didn't play in at all was July 3 and at that point it could be said he had played his way out of playing every inning.. His average started dropping in late May/early June and has continued to do so fairly steadily since then: after a torrid April when he hit .314, he hit .275 in May, .214 in June, .246 in July and .146 so far in August).

Edited August 22, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[illinoisredsox]

That's true, but it doesn't really describe Mr. Shaw. The fact of the matter is Shaw was the casualty of needing to put Young in the lineup. He doesn't even have a significant sample of PA's against LHP this year, he's still only at 100 total PA's vs left, and those have been scattered so broadly that I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T have issues getting his timing down against lefties, he hasn't had the live-fire time to really see them.

 

Last year Mr. Shaw had a REVERSE SPLIT. He actually hit lefthanded pitching better than right. Platoon issues are not the problem. Farrell using Holt's versatility to make sure that Young's playing time came at the expense of the rookie is the problem.

 

But as moonslav has pointed out several times, in the minors he did have issues vs. lefties. And that reverse split in 2015 was based on a whopping 85 PAs.

[Slasher9]

Come on IL. you know it's not fair to use facts to support your argument....

[mvp 78]

I'd sit Papi and have Young or one of the other OFers DH. Papi is really wearing down and it's painful to watch at times.

 

BASEBALL IS AN EASY SPORT TO PLAY THOUGH ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A DH WHO ONLY HAS TO WALK TO AND FROM THE PLATE THERE'S VIRTUALLY NO STRESS ON YOUR BODY I KNOW BECAUSE I PLAYED A DOUBLEHEADER ONCE ON MY BEER LEAGUE TEAM AND FELT COMPLETELY FINE AFTERWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

I'd sit Papi and have Young or one of the other OFers DH. Papi is really wearing down and it's painful to watch at times.

 

BASEBALL IS AN EASY SPORT TO PLAY THOUGH ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A DH WHO ONLY HAS TO WALK TO AND FROM THE PLATE THERE'S VIRTUALLY NO STRESS ON YOUR BODY I KNOW BECAUSE I PLAYED A DOUBLEHEADER ONCE ON MY BEER LEAGUE TEAM AND FELT COMPLETELY FINE AFTERWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!

To me it looks like he has been running pretty well lately.

[moonslav59]

Are you trying to make a point about playing time for Young here? I was not really addressing that but I would give him ample opportunity as well - as a 4th outfielder. obviously with an emphasis toward lefties but unlike most I guess, he would just simply get a shot against anyone from me. Once again, using him every 3rd or 4th day and expecting him to blossom is asking too much. Plenty of at bats there for 4 outfielders.

 

Since some guys are backups, that's just the way it works out. There is no way I sit one of our starters vs a RHP just so we keep Young fresh. Young should only start vs lefties and only lefties, unless someone is injured.

[Bellhorn04]

The simple fact is that if Young is going to hit against all lefties, some of those appearances will come at Benitendi's expense. The only other options are JBJ, Papi or Betts, and who wants any of them out of the lineup?

[moonslav59]

That's true, but it doesn't really describe Mr. Shaw. The fact of the matter is Shaw was the casualty of needing to put Young in the lineup. He doesn't even have a significant sample of PA's against LHP this year, he's still only at 100 total PA's vs left, and those have been scattered so broadly that I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T have issues getting his timing down against lefties, he hasn't had the live-fire time to really see them.

 

Last year Mr. Shaw had a REVERSE SPLIT. He actually hit lefthanded pitching better than right. Platoon issues are not the problem. Farrell using Holt's versatility to make sure that Young's playing time came at the expense of the rookie is the problem.

 

I'm not sold on Shaw either way. The sample sizes are all rather small. I believe he struggled vs lefties on the farm, so maybe last year's splits were a fluke. As bad as Hill is doing now, I'd give shaw another chance FT.