Has the current ownership transitioned to where they have maxed out their usefulness and move on

[Ed H]

John Henry ended the curse of the Bambino and we all should be grateful for him doing that but has his time with this investment has moved on. I believe it is time for a new approach that is more fitting with the times. He was a fresh face and brought on new attitudes and was current on the state of baseball previously. It appears now that the game has passed him by. He has been successful and made a fortune but his philosophies are based on what happened 2 decades ago, I believe it is time for him to move on and for to be thanked for his contributions but he now is a dinosaur and it is time to move on.. We deserve better.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Welcome to Talk Sox!

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Ed H said:

but his philosophies are based on what happened 2 decades ago,

But isn't 2 decades 20 years ago?  What about the three WSC we've won since then?

[Bellhorn04]

Henry insists he's not going anywhere and I take him at his word.

One very positive sign was all the extensions they've signed.

But I can't say I'm full of confidence about their plans this offseason.

In fact the only years I've really felt confident were the years with Epstein and Dombrowski.  

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Henry insists he's not going anywhere and I take him at his word.

One very positive sign was all the extensions they've signed.

But I can't say I'm full of confidence about their plans this offseason.

In fact the only years I've really felt confident were the years with Epstein and Dombrowski.  

They signed all those extensions, but they might just look at it as a cheaper way to go, which it is until their contracts come up again. Even Crochet was cheaper than if he would have it the open market. I think they would rather fill in from within, and trade for contracts that don’t have many years left on them than sign any long term expensive FA not named Bregman, and even that one will be like pulling teeth.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

They signed all those extensions, but they might just look at it as a cheaper way to go, which it is until their contracts come up again. Even Crochet was cheaper than if he would have it the open market. I think they would rather fill in from within, and trade for contracts that don’t have many years left on them than sign any long term expensive FA not named Bregman, and even that one will be like pulling teeth.

I tend to agree, Red.

The looming labor issues after 2026, that some think might wipe out the 2027 season, are probably not doing much to encourage Henry to spend, either.  And we know he's one of the guys who wants a salary cap.

[notin]

The truly sad part is the 100% agreement than any new owner will be better, despite 20-25 current owners that spend less every year, and a league rampant with mercurial owners that shoot payroll through the roof one year, only to dial it back significantly the next.

 

A new owner might not be the cure you all want; statistically a new owner is more likely to take everything you don’t like about Henry to an even greater extreme…

[notin]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

They signed all those extensions, but they might just look at it as a cheaper way to go, which it is until their contracts come up again. Even Crochet was cheaper than if he would have it the open market. I think they would rather fill in from within, and trade for contracts that don’t have many years left on them than sign any long term expensive FA not named Bregman, and even that one will be like pulling teeth.

But if it works, is it a big deal? 
 

It seems like there is a contingency of folks more obsessed with Henry spending than Henry financing a better team…

[UtahSox]

3 hours ago, Ed H said:

John Henry ended the curse of the Bambino and we all should be grateful for him doing that but has his time with this investment has moved on. I believe it is time for a new approach that is more fitting with the times. He was a fresh face and brought on new attitudes and was current on the state of baseball previously. It appears now that the game has passed him by. He has been successful and made a fortune but his philosophies are based on what happened 2 decades ago, I believe it is time for him to move on and for to be thanked for his contributions but he now is a dinosaur and it is time to move on.. We deserve better.

The same Ed Hand from X? Great Red Sox follow… Either way welcome good to have you on here. 

I don’t believe Henry would sell under any condition, especially with a new CBA and a likely post-lockout valuation bump coming. But it’s fair to question whether the Red Sox are now being managed less as a singular competitive priority and more as a portfolio asset—the cash cow within a global sports empire. When decisions around Yawkey Way feel constrained by broader fiduciary pressures tied to soccer, hockey, and capital allocation elsewhere, the on-field results inevitably reflect that.

I’ll always be grateful to John Henry for ending the curse and modernizing the franchise when the club needed it. At that time, ownership incentives and competitive ambition were aligned, and the results followed. Today, while top-tier revenue continues to be extracted from one of the most iconic brands in sports, competitive reinvestment has clearly tapered. That shift signals a breakdown in alignment—not entitlement from fans, but a rational response to a fundamentally different operating philosophy. Long way of saying….. I F***ing agree RSN deserves better. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

24 minutes ago, notin said:

The truly sad part is the 100% agreement than any new owner will be better, despite 20-25 current owners that spend less every year, and a league rampant with mercurial owners that shoot payroll through the roof one year, only to dial it back significantly the next.

 

A new owner might not be the cure you all want; statistically a new owner is more likely to take everything you don’t like about Henry to an even greater extreme…

Yup. Guys like Henry can walk around wearing their salary caps, but the rule should also require them to wear salary shoes, too.

I'm only typing in the best interests of fans...

.... because if it's not in the best interest of fandom, then fandom just might lose interest.

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, notin said:

The truly sad part is the 100% agreement than any new owner will be better,

The fans of 29 different teams think their owners are cheap and they need a new owner.  The reaction of Mets' fan when they didn't re-sign Alonso was hysterical.  You'd swear they were talking about Nutting rather than Cohen.

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, notin said:

The truly sad part is the 100% agreement than any new owner will be better, despite 20-25 current owners that spend less every year, and a league rampant with mercurial owners that shoot payroll through the roof one year, only to dial it back significantly the next.

 

A new owner might not be the cure you all want; statistically a new owner is more likely to take everything you don’t like about Henry to an even greater extreme…

Where is the 100% agreement?

I've always said be careful what you wish for. Our next owner could be a Pittsburgh Pirate owner clone.

We were still a top 3 spender into 2021, according to some sources. No doubt, something changed after 2018. We refused to replace Kimbrel and Kelly and almost traded Betts mid season 2019.

I kept hoping for a cycle up in spending for a long time. I thought 2025 looked like the start of a spending trend, but then we traded Devers. Now Bregman and Gio are free agents, so we seem to be at a point where JH needs to prove 2025 was not just a blip or some sort of bone thrown to irate fans.

[Deja Doh]

While Henry is now 76, not in the mid 50's like when he bought the team, what else has changed?  The stadium looks great, fans still flock to games, Red Sox Nation is solid.  The team isn't the Cowboys or the Angels.  It's his money.

[Old Red]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Where is the 100% agreement?

I've always said be careful what you wish for. Our next owner could be a Pittsburgh Pirate owner clone.

We were still a top 3 spender into 2021, according to some sources. No doubt, something changed after 2018. We refused to replace Kimbrel and Kelly and almost traded Betts mid season 2019.

I kept hoping for a cycle up in spending for a long time. I thought 2025 looked like the start of a spending trend, but then we traded Devers. Now Bregman and Gio are free agents, so we seem to be at a point where JH needs to prove 2025 was not just a blip or some sort of bone thrown to irate fans.

I think if a vote was taken out in RSN fans would be careful what they wished for, and vote for a new owner.

[Hitch]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

 

I've always said be careful what you wish for. Our next owner could be a Pittsburgh Pirate owner clone.

 

This is very true, and something fans don't consider even for a second. 

The kind of personal worth a person would need to buy this organisation would have to be immense (or state ownership through PIF or even worse funds). And then everything would be at their whim. And what happens if they get bored? Are you cool with the Saudi Royal family owning the team if it mean't they spend more money? These are questions fans just don't ask themselves. 

This organisation's fault isn't the money it puts into the team (though it could be higher), it's that for the past 5 years or so, a lot of money has been invested incorrectly and terrible decisions have been made. These things take time to recover from. 

We haven't been cheap, we've been inept. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

This is very true, and something fans don't consider even for a second. 

The kind of personal worth a person would need to buy this organisation would have to be immense (or state ownership through PIF or even worse funds). And then everything would be at their whim. And what happens if they get bored? Are you cool with the Saudi Royal family owning the team if it mean't they spend more money? These are questions fans just don't ask themselves. 

This organisation's fault isn't the money it puts into the team (though it could be higher), it's that for the past 5 years or so, a lot of money has been invested incorrectly and terrible decisions have been made. These things take time to recover from. 

We haven't been cheap, we've been inept. 

Well, inept might be strong.  I mean, Devers shouldn’t have been a bad contract they needed to move, at least not if you only consider his baseball talents.  
 

But also, I suppose that, while unlikely, a new ownership might give me ethical pause.  I can’t imagine being excited and would most certainly have a moral dilemma cheering for the Sox if they were purchased by the Sinoloa Drug Cartel.

But I can dial that back until it becomes closer to reality…

[JoeBrady]

8 hours ago, Hitch said:

We haven't been cheap, we've been inept. 

I see that a lot in fan reaction.  They accuse the owner of being cheap.  And while that could be true, as often as not, the team's record has more to do with mis-management.  Teams like LAA, the WS, the Rox, the Nats, etc., haven't traditionally been cheap.  They just been poorly run.  And as a result of being poorly run, have no one on the roster worthy of a big salary.  There's kind of a circularity about the process.

[moonslav59]

12 hours ago, Old Red said:

I think if a vote was taken out in RSN fans would be careful what they wished for, and vote for a new owner.

Perhaps, but it would not be 100% agreement. We probably can't even get that number on saying the Crochet trade was great.

LOL

[notin]

36 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I see that a lot in fan reaction.  They accuse the owner of being cheap.  And while that could be true, as often as not, the team's record has more to do with mis-management.  Teams like LAA, the WS, the Rox, the Nats, etc., haven't traditionally been cheap.  They just been poorly run.  And as a result of being poorly run, have no one on the roster worthy of a big salary.  There's kind of a circularity about the process.

Every team signs free agents that don’t work out.  The Dodgers are clearly already worried about Tanner Scott, for example.  And Michael Conforto was hardly a raging success for them.  But they get remembered for the successes…

[notin]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Perhaps, but it would not be 100% agreement. We probably can't even get that number on saying the Crochet trade was great.

LOL

Well, don’t forget (or perhaps review) what the original statement said.  It wasn’t 100% agreement that the Sox need new ownership; it was 100% agreement that the new owner would be better.  Fairly safe because I doubt very many calling for Henry’s departure are doing so because they want the new owner to be worse…

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I see that a lot in fan reaction.  They accuse the owner of being cheap.  And while that could be true, as often as not, the team's record has more to do with mis-management.  Teams like LAA, the WS, the Rox, the Nats, etc., haven't traditionally been cheap.  They just been poorly run.  And as a result of being poorly run, have no one on the roster worthy of a big salary.  There's kind of a circularity about the process.

Indeed, and through all the "ineptness," somehow they built up a top farm system that has created a 40 man roster loaded with so very many promising players under inexpensive team control for many years.

Yes, other team have leapfrogged over our spending budget, in very recent year. (Some may not realize we were still a top 3 spending team in 2021, which is not ancient history.)

Yes, we have avoided large and long FA contracts, but we have no avoided large and long extensions to younger players, which is actually a nice strategy.

Yes, we sign a lot of 1-2 year deals, but at least we've jumped the AAVs from $10M/1 to $40M/1, $21M/1, $38M/1, $18M/1 and $13M/1.

I do think we need to move outside the comfort zone and go a bit larger and a bit longer to fill a couple more big need areas out of these 3:

3B or 2B

1B

SP2

One could be by trade.

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

Every team signs free agents that don’t work out.  The Dodgers are clearly already worried about Tanner Scott, for example.  And Michael Conforto was hardly a raging success for them.  But they get remembered for the successes…

They are also shopping Teoscar.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, don’t forget (or perhaps review) what the original statement said.  It wasn’t 100% agreement that the Sox need new ownership; it was 100% agreement that the new owner would be better.  Fairly safe because I doubt very many calling for Henry’s departure are doing so because they want the new owner to be worse…

That's even more doubtful.

"would be better" is not the same as "want the new owner to be..."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And don't forget this headline that can only be found on this post:

Interest Kings Interest King

[notin]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

They are also shopping Teoscar.

Gee, they don’t want their poor-fielding corner outfielder with a .738 OPS who’s only owed $49 mill over the next two seasons.  Teams will undoubtedly be lining up…

[notin]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That's even more doubtful.

"would be better" is not the same as "want the new owner to be..."

So why do so many want Henry to sell the team? And how do they think the new owner will be different?

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

So why do so many want Henry to sell the team? And how do they think the new owner will be different?

I don't agree so many want him to sell, but I guess a lot do. The grass is always greener is one explanation.

Of course 100% would agree with this statement: "Henry sells the team to a better owner willing to spend way more on the team."

I'm not convinced we get a better owner.

I'm not totally convinced JH will never spend big again.

I'm extremely thankful for JH doing what was needed to be done to get us a ring in 2004. The 2007 ring was aided by big spending. The 2013 ring was kind of a surprise as we had cut spending. 2018 was an all in, JH aided ring season, and the contracts signed kept us a top 3 spending team all the way through 2021.

I think that 2019-2021 stretch jaded JH and made him hesitant to repeat mistakes made with so many large and long deals and younger players all reaching their big paydays in such a short period of time.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't agree so many want him to sell, but I guess a lot do. The grass is always greener is one explanation.

Of course 100% would agree with this statement: "Henry sells the team to a better owner willing to spend way more on the team."

I'm not convinced we get a better owner.

I'm not totally convinced JH will never spend big again.

I'm extremely thankful for JH doing what was needed to be done to get us a ring in 2004. The 2007 ring was aided by big spending. The 2013 ring was kind of a surprise as we had cut spending. 2018 was an all in, JH aided ring season, and the contracts signed kept us a top 3 spending team all the way through 2021.

I think that 2019-2021 stretch jaded JH and made him hesitant to repeat mistakes made with so many large and long deals and younger players all reaching their big paydays in such a short period of time.

That was my point.  While everyone who wants him to sell seems to think that’s the path to a higher payroll, it’s only one possibility, and possibly not even the most likely one.  I assume everyone - yes, everyone as in 100%.  - that wants Henry to sell believes a new owner will have looser purse strings.  I don’t believe anyone wants Henry gone because they believe the new owner will be cheaper…

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

That was my point.  While everyone who wants him to sell seems to think that’s the path to a higher payroll, it’s only one possibility, and possibly not even the most likely one.  I assume everyone - yes, everyone as in 100%.  - that wants Henry to sell believes a new owner will have looser purse strings.  I don’t believe anyone wants Henry gone because they believe the new owner will be cheaper…

I think some may be so fed up with JH and think he is so messed up, that they'd be willing to roll the dice on the next one- sight unseen.

It seems that is how much they dislike Henry.

[Duran Is The Man]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think some may be so fed up with JH and think he is so messed up, that they'd be willing to roll the dice on the next one- sight unseen.

It seems that is how much they dislike Henry.

that's it. when Henry thinks the 41st highest contract is too much, then f*** him, he needs to go.