Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[drewski6]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Obviously it makes you feel better to call it a cliff well so be it, but I’m not going to. Last Cliff I knew was Huxtable.😉😉

Cliff Robinson

[drewski6]

Cliff Floyd

[drewski6]

32 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

When prospects are called up, they rarely hit the ground running. There is a lag before top production with the good. The lack of farm infusion actually started under DD as Betts, Bogey, ERod, beni & JBJ were just getting into form.

Devers first full season was 2018, and he was pretty much it, until Duran, Crawford & Houck started playing a lot in 2023-2024. The only other meaningful player was Dalbec, and he was up and down before being just down. (Whitlock was a Bloom guy.)

The farm did better than expected and was not a complete bust, but key prospects were few and far between. That was certainly part of the reason for the team's decline.

 

Yup, BOYS can contribute but you need MEN to win in the playoffs.

Even Jordan didnt dominate his first few years in NBA

[Randy Red Sox]

On 12/17/2025 at 10:07 PM, moonslav59 said:

DD was damn good at what he did, and he benefited from an owner that allowed a cycle up, when the window opened wide with so many top prospects coming into their own, at around the same time.

I once made a list of the highest sp's rankings each of his prospects traded reached and it was over 20 players who were once top 20 in teh system, yet hardly any amounted to squat. The few that did, still fell woefully short of what the return guy did for us.

Some call it luck, but he kept all the right prospects. Sure, many were so low in the system, that their value was not that high, but he kept the best of his farm. His farm ended up producing a few key players- so much for "blowing up the farm."

YES! He knew how to value FAs and his own soon-to-be FAs. He got the Sale extension wrong, due to injury, but after he was traded to ATL, you'd swear some fans suddenly thought he was worth keeping around.

The Porcello trade and extension netted a Cy Young. That was just one of many moves that worked.

His FA hit% blows Ben, Bloom & Brez away. Take all those guy's top signings combined, and they cant beat DD's top 5 or 10.

The guy did what he was asked to do, and I'm so glad he was our GM. This fact does not contradict the fact that the team was bound to reach that escarpment, and no, expecting JH to buy our way out of it was not a reasonable demand. (Going 4+ years has been a bit extreme, but here we are again at a similar window we saw in 2016-17 and finalized the deal in 2018.)

could not have said it any better Moon you nailed it.

[mvp 78]

Cliff Lee

[mvp 78]

Cliff Clavin

[moonslav59]

Tony Cliff-ton

[Bellhorn04]

19 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Cliff Lee

I always liked that guy just for the fact he turned down the Yankees. 😊 

[notin]

11 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Fred and Pumpsie….while two of me would be much better for everyone you need to choose one. 
meanwhile King just signed with the Padres. Not much left out there. I am more concerned about how bad we will be in 2026 than Francona’s or Epstein s resume.

I guess this is the 2026 Red FLOPS. 
What a disgusting franchise….,

So the field died with Michael King?

King was never an option for anyone but San Diego.  Between injuries and his limited experience as a starter, no one was going to surrender a draft pick to sign him.  If anyone filled out the MLBTR Free Agent contest and didn’t put King back in SD, they gave away a freebie.  He was the equivalent of the center space on a Bingo card.

MLBTR ranked King as the 5th best starting pitcher on the free agent market.  3 of the 4 ranked above him (Valdez, Imai, Suarez) are still available…

 

 

 

 

[Larry Cook]

The prices for starting pitching continue to skyrocket!   Not sure bres-slow will be able to fill that Grand Canyon size hole at the number 2 spot in the rotation!!  

[a700hitter]

6 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

…But 6 guys in 4 years of which only one has been an All star one time isn't exactly a huge flex.  

I do agree that "he emptied the farm" was way overblown.  He was doing what he was hired to do, in his younger days he did a phenomenal job building up the Expos farm system. 

3 consecutive Division Championships topped by a World Series Championship in the Best Red Sox season in their history is a big flex.

[FredLynn]

6 hours ago, notin said:

So the field died with Michael King?

King was never an option for anyone but San Diego.  Between injuries and his limited experience as a starter, no one was going to surrender a draft pick to sign him.  If anyone filled out the MLBTR Free Agent contest and didn’t put King back in SD, they gave away a freebie.  He was the equivalent of the center space on a Bingo card.

MLBTR ranked King as the 5th best starting pitcher on the free agent market.  3 of the 4 ranked above him (Valdez, Imai, Suarez) are still available…

 

 

 

 

Great that Suarez and Valdez are still available! We aren’t getting them either. Too expensive for the cheapskate owner.

[vjcsmoke]

Well I just read a rumor that the Arizona Diamondbacks are in on Bregman.

Article: Diamondbacks’ perfect contract offer to steal Alex Bregman from Red Sox in free agency

Diamondbacks could offer him a contract in the range of 5 years/166 million dollars.  If this happens it would mean the Red Sox got outbid on yet another free agent slugger target.

I'm pretty scared this is exactly what will happen. The Red Sox are hemming and hawing and meanwhile all the good free agents will come off the market.

They will then predictably respond by signing an injury prone player to a short term deal and the guy will miss the first year of his contract on IR so the Red Sox insurance will end up paying almost 80% of the guy's salary. On the books the contract exists but in the real world the Sox will only pay the player real money after he gets healthy.

Is this the worst offseason the Red Sox have ever had? Can anyone think of an even more underwhelming offseason? Aren't we heading BACKWARDS now in terms of fielding a competitive roster?

[JoeBrady]

42 minutes ago, vjcsmoke said:

Diamondbacks could offer him a contract in the range of 5 years/166 million dollars. 

Well, there is always a rumor out about players signing for huge amounts.  IMHO, it will be more like $120M/4 or $150M/6.

[Larry Cook]

Bregman looking for 6 years!  Not even the cubs have gone to 6 years!!! 

[Randy Red Sox]

12 hours ago, notin said:

So the field died with Michael King?

King was never an option for anyone but San Diego.  Between injuries and his limited experience as a starter, no one was going to surrender a draft pick to sign him.  If anyone filled out the MLBTR Free Agent contest and didn’t put King back in SD, they gave away a freebie.  He was the equivalent of the center space on a Bingo card.

MLBTR ranked King as the 5th best starting pitcher on the free agent market.  3 of the 4 ranked above him (Valdez, Imai, Suarez) are still available…

 

 

 

 

only call the Sox if you are willing to take a 1 yr deal

[moonslav59]

9 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

The prices for starting pitching continue to skyrocket!   Not sure bres-slow will be able to fill that Grand Canyon size hole at the number 2 spot in the rotation!!  

I see that point, but I also see how our pitching depth is a goldmine for trading purposes, especially to teams that can't afford to pay for FA pitching but think they are a decent SP'er or two away from having a shot.

While I'd really like a solid #2 to push Gray to 3 and Bello to 4, our top need is a big bat. (I'd say two, but I keep getting shouted down.)

Let AZ pay Bregman. We can trade an OF'er & a few pitchers (not named Tolle or Early) for Marte. Then, sign Suarez or Okamoto, or take a flyer on FA pitcher like Imai or be bold and get Ranger Suarez.

Okay- okay, I'm dreaming, again. Pinch me.

[Bellhorn04]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I see that point, but I also see how our pitching depth is a goldmine for trading purposes, especially to teams that can't afford to pay for FA pitching but think they are a decent SP'er or two away from having a shot.

While I'd really like a solid #2 to push Gray to 3 and Bello to 4, our top need is a big bat. (I'd say two, but I keep getting shouted down.)

Let AZ pay Bregman. We can trade an OF'er & a few pitchers (not named Tolle or Early) for Marte. Then, sign Suarez or Okamoto, or take a flyer on FA pitcher like Imai or be bold and get Ranger Suarez.

Okay- okay, I'm dreaming, again. Pinch me.

I've had it with offseason dreams.  Our dreams have never matched up to reality since the day they traded Betts, the day John Henry told us how it's going to be from now on.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I've had it with offseason dreams.  Our dreams have never matched up to reality since the day they traded Betts, the day John Henry told us how it's going to be from now on.  

I was thinking the same thing about why multitudes of Sox fans are so bitter every winter. Ownership has made us that way. 

It's not really a trap to speculate and be enthusiastic, because diehards want to do both, and the media has to because it's their job. 

Mookie's quotes THIS WEEKEND about never wanting to be traded and wanting to play his entire career in Boston just keep the wounds open. My son read me a few from his phone, but when I saw the headline on NESN.com today, I couldn't even click it.

[moonslav59]

The sliver of hope, to me was last winter- most notably the Crochet trade, extension and the Bregman signing. Yes, there as the opt outs. There was also the Buehler signing, which sucked, but the money spent was about double the previous winter SP'er signings, except for Gio, who was still on the books when we inked that deal.

There was a significant uptick in spending and some changes to the team philosophy on spending, starting with the massive Devers extension- both in years and dollars. That was #1.

2. Bello extended.

3. Rafaela extended.

4. Giolito signed for 2 years NOT 1 (with 3rd year insurance, if he got hurt year 2.)

5. The Crochet trade was the biggest since Sale.

6. The Crochet extension. The largest and longest pitcher deal since Price.

7. The Bregman contract shattered our FA AAV record.

8. The Campbell extension.

9. The Anthony extension.

10. That Chapman signing (then extension.)

We did not have 10 moves like this in over 5 years combined (from Nata/Sale deals to the Devers deal.) There is no denying a shift took place. We can talk about why they did it, and if it will continue, but we cannot deny it happened.

Some worries happened after these 10 events: 

1. We dumped Devers and took on the Hicks deal, while adding little production.

2. Bregman opted out.

3. Giolito opted out.

So far, we replaced the Buehler deal with Gray, but we gave up a couple decent prospects to do that. That looks like a plus, but maybe it's offset by replacing Gio with Oviedo, who also cost a couple players to get him.

I have serious doubts about 2026 and beyond. I have zero expectations, thanks to these management groups continuing lies and deceptions- or shams, as I like to call it. I'll believe it when I see it.

As bad as things got after the Betts trade, the one good thing management did was to build (too slowly) up the 40 man roster depth and farm from top to bottom. The recent shift towards building up the farm pitching has been eye-opening. I can't help but ask, "for what reason?" At this point, we should be looking to fill the 2-3 major gaps we have on the 26 man roster:

3B or 2B (wherever Mayer/Romy do not play)

1B (No, we cannot count on Casas for 2026)

SP2 (No, Gray should be our #3 not #2.)

If we just fill 2 of these slots with real talent, we can get by without the third, but the problem is, I have serious doubts we even fill one of the three slots with a true impact player.

We sit and we wait- just like every offseason since pre 2018.

 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The sliver of hope, to me was last winter- most notably the Crochet trade, extension and the Bregman signing. Yes, there as the opt outs. There was also the Buehler signing, which sucked, but the money spent was about double the previous winter SP'er signings, except for Gio, who was still on the books when we inked that deal.

There was a significant uptick in spending and some changes to the team philosophy on spending, starting with the massive Devers extension- both in years and dollars. That was #1.

2. Bello extended.

3. Rafaela extended.

4. Giolito signed for 2 years NOT 1 (with 3rd year insurance, if he got hurt year 2.)

5. The Crochet trade was the biggest since Sale.

6. The Crochet extension. The largest and longest pitcher deal since Price.

7. The Bregman contract shattered our FA AAV record.

8. The Campbell extension.

9. The Anthony extension.

10. That Chapman signing (then extension.)

We did not have 10 moves like this in over 5 years combined (from Nata/Sale deals to the Devers deal.) There is no denying a shift took place. We can talk about why they did it, and if it will continue, but we cannot deny it happened.

Some worries happened after these 10 events: 

1. We dumped Devers and took on the Hicks deal, while adding little production.

2. Bregman opted out.

3. Giolito opted out.

So far, we replaced the Buehler deal with Gray, but we gave up a couple decent prospects to do that. That looks like a plus, but maybe it's offset by replacing Gio with Oviedo, who also cost a couple players to get him.

I have serious doubts about 2026 and beyond. I have zero expectations, thanks to these management groups continuing lies and deceptions- or shams, as I like to call it. I'll believe it when I see it.

As bad as things got after the Betts trade, the one good thing management did was to build (too slowly) up the 40 man roster depth and farm from top to bottom. The recent shift towards building up the farm pitching has been eye-opening. I can't help but ask, "for what reason?" At this point, we should be looking to fill the 2-3 major gaps we have on the 26 man roster:

3B or 2B (wherever Mayer/Romy do not play)

1B (No, we cannot count on Casas for 2026)

SP2 (No, Gray should be our #3 not #2.)

If we just fill 2 of these slots with real talent, we can get by without the third, but the problem is, I have serious doubts we even fill one of the three slots with a true impact player.

We sit and we wait- just like every offseason since pre 2018.

 

When you look at the deals given to Bello, Rafaela, Anthony, Campbell, and Crochet and maybe one or two more Ive forgotten about, it’s not like thr Sox are not spending.  Theyre just spending more on their internal players, which does make sense.  Sorry, it does.

First of all, internal arb-eligible and pre-arb players often sign cheaper, which they do more for risk aversion purposes.

Second, if you can extend a pre-arb player, they are almost exclusively under 30 and often under 27, so they still have their best baseball ahead in most cases.  Free agents, on the other hand, are almost always over 30 and in most cases, and primed for a decline that could appear at any time 

So the Sox method is to get more stable players for less money.  Free agency is there to fill the 1-2 year gaps, not build a team.

Sure, signing your own younger players is not without risks.  Kristian Campbell has yet to set the world on fire, and he might never do so. (He will.). But if he doesn’t, he won’t be blazing that trail, either. There’s a parade of Scott Kingery’s and Jon Singleton’s ahead of him.   And wasting $50mil on Campbell, even well over 10 years later, is still cheaper than it was to gamble on Carl Crawford…

[FredLynn]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I see that point, but I also see how our pitching depth is a goldmine for trading purposes, especially to teams that can't afford to pay for FA pitching but think they are a decent SP'er or two away from having a shot.

While I'd really like a solid #2 to push Gray to 3 and Bello to 4, our top need is a big bat. (I'd say two, but I keep getting shouted down.)

Let AZ pay Bregman. We can trade an OF'er & a few pitchers (not named Tolle or Early) for Marte. Then, sign Suarez or Okamoto, or take a flyer on FA pitcher like Imai or be bold and get Ranger Suarez.

Okay- okay, I'm dreaming, again. Pinch me.

Look at the history of these sorry franchise! We aren't getting ANY of those guys. We will get a retread and a bunch of excuses, just like we usually get. Yes, they did good extending our ace and signing Bregman for a year. But who else have they really got, who of high quality, recently? 

This franchise has become a shell of what it should be. This is a BIG MARKET, not a budget team. Disgusting ownes; disgusting franchise.

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

When you look at the deals given to Bello, Rafaela, Anthony, Campbell, and Crochet and maybe one or two more Ive forgotten about, it’s not like thr Sox are not spending.  Theyre just spending more on their internal players, which does make sense.  Sorry, it does.

First of all, internal arb-eligible and pre-arb players often sign cheaper, which they do more for risk aversion purposes.

Second, if you can extend a pre-arb player, they are almost exclusively under 30 and often under 27, so they still have their best baseball ahead in most cases.  Free agents, on the other hand, are almost always over 30 and in most cases, and primed for a decline that could appear at any time 

So the Sox method is to get more stable players for less money.  Free agency is there to fill the 1-2 year gaps, not build a team.

Sure, signing your own younger players is not without risks.  Kristian Campbell has yet to set the world on fire, and he might never do so. (He will.). But if he doesn’t, he won’t be blazing that trail, either. There’s a parade of Scott Kingery’s and Jon Singleton’s ahead of him.   And wasting $50mil on Campbell, even well over 10 years later, is still cheaper than it was to gamble on Carl Crawford…

Exactly and no reason to say you're sorry.

We've been bitching about losing Betts for over 5 years. The bitching about Bogey bolting has all but gone away, and much of the complaining has been about not replacing these loses in kind. Had we extended those guys way back when, maybe we'd have avoided some of these major setbacks. (We did extend Bogey.)

Now, we are doing things differently, and yes, some of these extensions may not work out all that well, but I for one applaud the efforts and seed change.

I for one am not trying to defend or prop up this management group. They don't deserve it, but I'm also not going to deny that some serious changes have taken place. I listed 10 and also spoke about the major shift towards obtaining and developing pitching prospects, and that may yield the best results over any of the 10 events I named.

It's been rather astounding how quickly Brez, with some help from Bloom, reshaped our ML pitching staff and depth as well as the farm pitching depth from the rookie leagues to AAA. Brez has traded away some promising pitchers and of course Sale, but in the overall scheme of things, he's done a tremendous job building quality depth. Some moves have already proven worthless, many are TBD and some have already netted plus results. (Not counting FA signings)

Crochet for a lot of prospects

Gray and Oviedo for players/prospects

Slaten was a Rule 5 trade

Weissert and Fitts for Dugo

Harrison is not worth Devers, but he does have promise.

Moran for Gasper 

Prospects by rank:

1. Tolle -draft

4. Witherspoon- draft

6. Bennett for Perales did not add to pitching, but he is promising,

8. Fajardo- for Booser

10. Sandlin- for Schreiber

11. Phillips & 12. Eyanson- draft

16. Drohan- reacquired from Rule 5 loss

17. Holobetz- for Priester

22. Watson- for Reimer

24. Delzine- IFA

30. Samaniego- Rule 5 trade

That's 20 pitchers, so far, not counting FAs and then add these 11 more....

36 Aita, 37 Tygart, 46 Foutch, 52 Neeley, 53 Morgan, 58 Patton & Finley: all by draft.

42. E Rivera & 58. Cooper Adams by MiLBFA

50. I Jackson- for Grissom

55. Jose Bello- for Devers

Pretty amazing.

 

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Look at the history of these sorry franchise! We aren't getting ANY of those guys. We will get a retread and a bunch of excuses, just like we usually get. Yes, they did good extending our ace and signing Bregman for a year. But who else have they really got, who of high quality, recently? 

This franchise has become a shell of what it should be. This is a BIG MARKET, not a budget team. Disgusting ownes; disgusting franchise.

"Sorry franchises" don't win 4 rings in 2 decades. BTW, we went over the tax line in 2015. Only 7 teams did, and they are called big spenders or sometimes "BIG MARKET."

High quality gets?
Crochet was gotten before extended.

Chapman- only the best RP'er in MLB in 2025 and maybe the best RP season since Koji.

Gray

Close or promising high quality:

Giolito

Slaten

Narvaez

Tolle

O'Neill (for scraps)

 

 

 

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I've had it with offseason dreams. 

Perhaps you should pay less attention, and I mean that as a positive. 

• I expect us to add a hitter and an SP.
• I do not expect them to acquire anyone today.

[notin]

16 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Great that Suarez and Valdez are still available! We aren’t getting them either. Too expensive for the cheapskate owner.

Who was the last free agent pitcher the Sox signed to a deal longer than 3 years that worked out?  

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I was thinking the same thing about why multitudes of Sox fans are so bitter every winter.

It was always this way.  The same folks that are complaining today, were complaining in 2007.  We have a much better chance of landing Skenes than having that change.

[Bellhorn04]

39 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Perhaps you should pay less attention, and I mean that as a positive. 

• I expect us to add a hitter and an SP.
• I do not expect them to acquire anyone today.

I am trying to pay less attention, actually, Joe.  I've been posting much less than I normally do in the offseason.

Great to have you here BTW.

 

[Bellhorn04]

23 minutes ago, notin said:

Who was the last free agent pitcher the Sox signed to a deal longer than 3 years that worked out?  

That leads to the inevitable arguments about what working out means.  To me the Price signing worked out because we won the division 3 years in a row and the 2018 ring.  I was fine with the Eovaldi contract as well.   

But everyone has their own criteria for 'working out'.

   

[Bellhorn04]

20 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

It was always this way.  The same folks that are complaining today, were complaining in 2007.  We have a much better chance of landing Skenes than having that change.

I did not complain much between the time Henry bought the team and 2019.  I complained when they traded Betts and I haven't really been the same since.  It's not like I want Henry to sell the team, but I do think there has been a big shift in philosophy.  The hunger to win another title just isn't there anymore IMHO.