Angels (Kikuchi) vs Red Sox (Bello): 6/3/25, 7:10pm

[notin]

10 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

 i'd take Chapman over Zack Kelly all day every day. but yeah, they still have to score.

Even if MLB changed the rule that merely touching third base counts as a run, it wasn’t enough.

 

I think Benjamin Franklin summed it up perfectly.  “There are three certainties in life.  Death, taxes, and Trevor Story striking out with the tying run on second.”

That last one probably didn’t make much sense at the time…

[notin]

10 hours ago, iortiz said:

Yet 51 error and leading baseball in this category speaks volumes how this team is run, managed and coached. There’s no way to sugar coat it. 

They also lead MLB in putouts.  That’s another mark against error counts…

[iortiz]

10 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

And that would be really stupid.  Best thing after a game like this is to put it behind you.  Save the fundamentals for the next day's pregame practices which are endless already.  

Also, as I said, the two fundamentals that are more important than all the others are hitting and pitching.  Our pitching was pretty good and gave up just 3 earned runs in 10 innings.  Our hitting stunk.  The Sox lead MLB in K's with RISP by a pretty big margin.  Now that's a fundamental worth working on.  

 

Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting same results. Saying “We have to do better” every night won’t change the situation. I don’t how or when but it’s clear to me that this team has to work their ass off to correct their fundamentals (mentally and execution). You don need to be a baseball guru to know that.
 

What you are suggesting is business as usual, then who is bringing stupidity to the table? 

[Bellhorn04]

49 minutes ago, notin said:

They also lead MLB in putouts.  That’s another mark against error counts…

Repeating myself here, but while I agree that advanced metrics are more important, leading MLB in errors after being a close second last year does seem like an issue. 

[Maxbialystock]

11 hours ago, iortiz said:

Yet 51 error and leading baseball in this category speaks volumes how this team is run, managed and coached. There’s no way to sugar coat it. 

Think what you want to, but the real telltale is that the Sox are 3-8 in the 11 games since Bregman went on the IL, largely because they have scored an average of 2.45 runs per game without him.  

I agree errors can be frustrating, but you can't ignore that at least four positions--catcher, CF, RF, and 3B--have been fielded well, and SS is hardly a disaster.    All 5 positions have positive DWAR's.  Duran has 4 errors in LF--not good--but his DWAR is just -0.1.  The problem positions are 1b and 2b.  

Last night the 3 errors did not lead to any unearned runs.  The one unearned run was the ghost runner scoring in the 10th.  

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Yup. Cora is the easy shield FOR PLAYERS THAT ARE JUST NOT THAT GOOD. 

Amen.  

[bkzwhitestrican]

12 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Chapman provides much less drama than Jansen and Kimbrel.

Just wait until Chapman has his annual 6-week slump where he can't throw strikes. 

[Maxbialystock]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Repeating myself here, but while I agree that advanced metrics are more important, leading MLB in errors after being a close second last year does seem like an issue. 

What "advanced metrics?"  I'm talking about the simplest of stats, fielding percentage.  The Sox are near the bottom, but still make 98% of their plays, and the MLB leaders in team fielding percentage only make 1% more.   

And this.  Rafaela leads MLB centerfielders in DWAR even though he has 3 errors, which is more than any other centerfielder with a plus DWAR.  

Last night the Sox committed 3 errors and none of them resulted in an unearned run.  The unearned run in the 10th was the ghost runner who scored.   Do I need to remind that the Sox pulled off an excellent double play in the 10th with the bases loaded to limit the damage to that ghost runner?  

[iortiz]

2 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Think what you want to, but the real telltale is that the Sox are 3-8 in the 11 games since Bregman went on the IL, largely because they have scored an average of 2.45 runs per game without him.  

I agree errors can be frustrating, but you can't ignore that at least four positions--catcher, CF, RF, and 3B--have been fielded well, and SS is hardly a disaster.    All 5 positions have positive DWAR's.  Duran has 4 errors in LF--not good--but his DWAR is just -0.1.  The problem positions are 1b and 2b.  

Last night the 3 errors did not lead to any unearned runs.  The one unearned run was the ghost runner scoring in the 10th.  

Amen.  

Bergman was a huge loss but we still could have won some of those games. It is actually a combination of errors and poor fundamentals that are not necessarily translated to errors, that have us in this situation. Look at Hamilton not taking the extra base or Abreu trying to go yard in the 10th instead of putting the ball in play to move the runner despite he’s struggling. Yeah hitting especially with LOB and RISP has been a huge issue which makes me wonder what has the hitting coach done to address that? Apparently nothing or what he’s trying to do is definitely not working.  
 

IMO Cora’s speech in the locker room has worn out and that doesn’t necessarily mean he is a bad coach but it isn’t working anymore reason why sometimes you need to change that to see different results. Again back to back to back seasons leading baseball in errors is not a coincidence. I still believe that this is a good core of talent but that is not well coached, managed and run.  

 

 

[iortiz]

29 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

What "advanced metrics?"  I'm talking about the simplest of stats, fielding percentage.  The Sox are near the bottom, but still make 98% of their plays, and the MLB leaders in team fielding percentage only make 1% more.   

And this.  Rafaela leads MLB centerfielders in DWAR even though he has 3 errors, which is more than any other centerfielder with a plus DWAR.  

Last night the Sox committed 3 errors and none of them resulted in an unearned run.  The unearned run in the 10th was the ghost runner who scored.   Do I need to remind that the Sox pulled off an excellent double play in the 10th with the bases loaded to limit the damage to that ghost runner?  

This is when ppl look at stats and don’t understand what is really happening on the field. Most teams are very close to 100% fielding percentage, because they are MLB players but at this level 1% or 2% of margin of error makes the whole difference to make the POs or be at the basement like the Sox in recent years. They suck at defense and fundamentals. Plain and simple. To put it in context those 50+ errors and counting give the opposition 50+ more outs while taxing your pitching staff arms, confidence and mind of the whole team.

Your assessment is very poor to say the least pal. 

[mvp 78]

36 minutes ago, bkzwhitestrican said:

Just wait until Chapman has his annual 6-week slump where he can't throw strikes. 

Need to trade him before then.

[Tedballgame]

7 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

The Red Sox are a team in transition.  In 2018 the team was filled with stars and the youngster Devers sucked just like many of the youngsters right now.  The key to that team was the veterans.  Bregman and Devers aren't enough veterans to make the team competitive on offense.  Now that Bregman is out this team falls far short on offense.  The chance of a playoff spot is non-existent.  In fact, after 2 of 6 months to the season the performance is the worst since 2020.

What should the front office do?  The following.

1 - Fire Cora and let Breslow pick the new manager and his coaches.

2 - Put Anthony at 1B for 2025 only and bring back Casas in 2026.

3 - Move Story to 3B until Bregman returns and put Mayer at SS to see if he can play defense at the position.  Personally, I think fans will be surprised that he's not anything more than a league average defender at best.  I hope I'm wrong, but his minor league performance indicates he's nothing special and he's injury prone.

4 - Build a plan for the roster by position that provides a Division Championship level roster.

C - Narvaez, Wong

1B - Casas, acquire a back-up Corner Infielder

2B - Campbell, Story

SS - Mayer, Story

3B - Bregman, acquire a back-up Corner Infielder

LF, CF, RF - Duran, Rafaela, Anthony back-up Abreu

DH - Devers

These are the 13 roster spots for the offense.  9 hitters with a Corner Infield back-up, a Middle Infield back-up an outfield back-up and a back-up catcher. 

We are set for 2026 on offense EXCEPT for a back-up catcher and back-up Corner Infielder.

These are two bit-players that should be acquired easily.  That leaves Breslow with the task of upgrading the starting staff during the off season.  We know Crochet and Buehler are quality pitchers now we need to find 3 more from our ranks or free agency plus upgrade the bullpen.

I personally prefer to keep Duran but if Breslow can acquire a high ceiling prospect and excellent reliever for Duran and a salary dump of Yoshida then all he has to do is figure out how to replace their ONLY lead-off hitter.  That's why I think Duran needs to stay as much as I like the idea of a Salas and Estrada deal for Yoshida and Duran (salary dump on Yoshida to fund missing personnel for 2026).

I think it's a waste of time to continually blast the young players for not being good enough to produce the runs they need to win.  That all comes with experience and these guys don't have that yet so put the team together with a new manager and see if they can improve their defense, work on their ability to adjust to changes in the way their opponents pitch them and work with the pitching staff to more effectively reduce inherited runners that score.

That is this year's team and they suck. Bregman will opt out and go for a longer contract. You think it would be easy to just put Anthony at 1B??? He has never played the position, let alone in the majors.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Tedballgame said:

That is this year's team and they suck. Bregman will opt out and go for a longer contract. You think it would be easy to just put Anthony at 1B??? He has never played the position, let alone in the majors.

Yes, he believes they can just move Anthony over to 1B AND that Campbell is a better SS than Mayer AND that Abreu isn't deserving of a GG in RF. 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

27 minutes ago, Tedballgame said:

That is this year's team and they suck. Bregman will opt out and go for a longer contract. You think it would be easy to just put Anthony at 1B??? He has never played the position, let alone in the majors.

I have always found great players can play most places on the field at an adequate level without much practice.  It's not like Devers, he's coordinated and has balance.  Since Abreu is the weakest defensive outfielder of the top four outfielders, maybe he should be the 1B for 2025.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Since Abreu is the weakest defensive outfielder of the top four outfielders, maybe he should be the 1B for 2025.

You have him WEAKER than Refsnyder? 

[illinoisredsox]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You have him WEAKER than Refsnyder? 

He makes more errors, therefore he’s weaker.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

He makes more errors, therefore he’s weaker.

 

[drewski6]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Repeating myself here, but while I agree that advanced metrics are more important, leading MLB in errors after being a close second last year does seem like an issue. 

Yeah, but what were we the year before that? (JK - Im sure terrible)

[drewski6]

2 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Think what you want to, but the real telltale is that the Sox are 3-8 in the 11 games since Bregman went on the IL, largely because they have scored an average of 2.45 runs per game without him.  

I agree errors can be frustrating, but you can't ignore that at least four positions--catcher, CF, RF, and 3B--have been fielded well, and SS is hardly a disaster.    All 5 positions have positive DWAR's.  Duran has 4 errors in LF--not good--but his DWAR is just -0.1.  The problem positions are 1b and 2b.  

Last night the 3 errors did not lead to any unearned runs.  The one unearned run was the ghost runner scoring in the 10th.  

Amen.  

GREAT POST

[drewski6]

12 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Good point on the extra outs--one that moonslav always makes.  However, I do not agree this Sox team is one of the worst defensive teams in MLB.   That's why I cited the DWAR's of Bregman, Narvaez, Abreu, and Rafaela.  As I said, half the defense has been pretty good (and that now includes Mayer at 3b).   

Also, don't forget that a double play saves pitchers big time, and the Sox are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays per game.  Tonight the Angels turned 3 double plays, which went a long way to make up their pitchers issuing 7 walks.  

Finally, I must insist that far and away the biggest difference makers in games and for teams are hitting and pitching.  Not defense.  Not bonehead plays.  Not baserunning.  Not bad calls by the third base coach.  Not bad calls by the homeplate umpire.  

Finally, I must insist that far and away the biggest difference makers in games and for teams are hitting and pitching. 

Say it again!

[drewski6]

The defense hurts but the hitting and pitching hurt more.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The defense hurts but the hitting and pitching hurt more.

Everything hurts right now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The defense hurts but the hitting and pitching hurt more.

No fan who watches these Red Sox games could give a crap that Boston is third in the AL in total runs scored, and per game, and second in team OPS. The offense has been inadequate all year making contact when it counts, and can't even move a baserunner -- and that's why the Sox have the most one-run losses.

It's not bad luck, and it's not due to change unless one of two things happen... 1. the coaches hold crash clinics to change everyone's two-strike approach: choke up, get closer to the plate, shorten swings, and put it play;

or 2. get new players, who already do that.

Otherwise, continuing to watch these zombies eat their own limbs is the definition of insanity.

[mvp 78]

38 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No fan who watches these Red Sox games could give a crap that Boston is third in the AL in total runs scored, and per game, and second in team OPS. The offense has been inadequate all year making contact when it counts, and can't even move a baserunner -- and that's why the Sox have the most one-run losses.

It's not bad luck, and it's not due to change unless one of two things happen... 1. the coaches hold crash clinics to change everyone's two-strike approach: choke up, get closer to the plate, shorten swings, and put it play;

or 2. get new players, who already do that.

Otherwise, continuing to watch these zombies eat their own limbs is the definition of insanity.

They are 13th in runs scored since May 1st. Like the rotation in 2024, the offense's reputation is getting by on what they did in April, but it won't last. 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

11 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

You have him WEAKER than Refsnyder? 

Rafaela, Duran, Anthony and Abreu.  Refsnyder not as good as Abreu.

1B suggestion makes sense to me.  Good suggestion.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

10 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No fan who watches these Red Sox games could give a crap that Boston is third in the AL in total runs scored, and per game, and second in team OPS. The offense has been inadequate all year making contact when it counts, and can't even move a baserunner -- and that's why the Sox have the most one-run losses.

It's not bad luck, and it's not due to change unless one of two things happen... 1. the coaches hold crash clinics to change everyone's two-strike approach: choke up, get closer to the plate, shorten swings, and put it play;

or 2. get new players, who already do that.

Otherwise, continuing to watch these zombies eat their own limbs is the definition of insanity.

Why does the team continue to suck?  It's very simple.  Bloom destroyed the talent level of the organization as fans rationalized how it was going to help the team long term.

That theory couldn't have been farther from the truth.  The FOUNDATION of the baseball team was destroyed as soon as Dombrowski was fired, and Bloom was given the reins to destroy EVERYTHING. 

Talent wins games and one by one the talent was forced out and not replaced.

Mookie had 6 years of experience and a 42.5 WAR.  There is no way to replace that, but Bloom never even attempted to.  Benny came up in 2016 for 34 games and by the end of 2018 had a WAR of 8.6.  JD joined the team in 2018 and had a 22.6 WAR from 2014 to 2018.  Xander Bogaerts had a WAR of 15.2 from 2015 to 2018.  Then there was Devers who put up a 5.4 WAR in 2019 but pretty much sucked in 2018 after a great call-up in 2017 with respect to hitting.  O.7 WAR for 58 games suggested he could hit but not field.   

It's 5 years after the Bloominator started the complete tear down and how much talent has been replaced?

Duran has a 10.9 WAR the last two years, Devers has a 15.3 WAR the last FOUR years.  Bregman has a 13.5 WAR the last 3 years.  This is the stockpile of talent that is to be compared to Mookie, Benny, JD, Bogaerts and Devers that led the team to a championship.  For fans to expect this team to have ANY chance at a championship is unrealistic and until the talent level is returned to what it was in 2018, that will never happen!! 

All the fans that thought it was smart for a group of owners with nearly as much money as god to not want to exceed the CAP thanks to mistakes made under Cherington half a decade earlier, you couldn't have been more wrong.  This Titanic team of 2018 hit an massive iceberg in 2020 when they let Mookie go.  That literally sunk the ship and the funny thing is that the owners have made much less money since Mookie was tossed in the garbage.  What great irony!!!

So folks, if you want to blame the RISP batting average, the lack of defense, the failing of the pitching staff or the manager's ineptitude - that's fine.  This is a complete systematic breakdown that got triggered with the firing of Dombrowski and sealed with the giveaway of Mookie and Price.  Those were unrecoverable mistakes that still manifest themselves in the team today.  Since the Bloominator was hired to wreck havoc on the fans dreams of continued success, it's been unbelievable how many fans were oblivious to what was happening.  Today, there are still fans that think the team has a shot at making the playoffs.  It can't happen without more talent!!!  TALENT is the essence of success in baseball, and we are lacking significant talent.  

Should we care that Cora is playing guys who don't figure in the talent of the future?  Should we care that Anthony is wasting time in AAA?  Breslow upgraded the talent level significantly with the additions of Crochet and Bregman.  It's a start to replacing all the talent that I listed above.  But so much more is needed.  A new manager might make the players more effective but there has to be more talent.  For Breslow to be a success he needs to eliminate Cora and add two more big SPs.  That will buy time for the outstanding future hitters to develop and be producing 4 to 8 WAR a year like the 2018 Red Sox.  Guys like Michael King are free agents this off season so first we find a reputable manager known for his pitching expertise and connections to great coaches then go get two big time starters and let Buehler walk unless he starts looking stronger soon.

Trust me, this next four months isn't going to look much different but it could look much worse until Bregman gets back.  Again, count the talent and figure out what % of it is tied up in Bregman and you will understand why we've been so bad since he got hurt.