Red Sox (Houck) vs Blue Jays (Berrios): 05/01/25, 7:07pm

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Slaten is the closer of our future!

He's not my presi, er, I mean closer.

[FredLynn]

Is it over yet? I switched to the Knicks/Pistons game to scout out the Celtics next opponent. 
looks like the Flops are still a .500 team. 
Oh well. Another long summer watching bums.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

27 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

At least that's what I heard.

Electric Boston Red Sox Youngster Scratched From Lineup With Problematic Issue

[Randy Red Sox]

43 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

If he can be sent down he should be. If not he should be traded. If there are no takers he should be DFA’d. 
He had his chance.

both him and Casas have had plenty of chances. package them together in a deal and get Anthony up here

[Randy Red Sox]

5 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

He's not my presi, er, I mean closer.

that is 2 nights in a row he's gotten lit up

[moonslav59]

This routine is getting tiresome.

I'm glad Houck looked improved, but now it's two wasted decent starts.

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

that is 2 nights in a row he's gotten lit up

Casas had an OPS of .800 and.856 the last two years. I’d give him more time.

[redsoxrules]

Man this team is s***. Losing 5 of 7 to the Jays is garbage. This is last year all over again. Can't win against teams that they should win against. 

[jdc69]

I think the one guy who no one complains about but should is Cora. He let Houck pitch the 7th, yay, but wait a minute, his pitch count was only 86. What is it? Pitch counts or innings? I know, whichever gets them out of the game the fastest. I understood pulling Giolito considering he just got back but this is getting ridiculous. Cora and Casas, get em out of here. I was listening to the radio broadcast and they said Casas is purposely only swinging at certain strikes ie not high ones...and he's tall! 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, jdc69 said:

I think the one guy who no one complains about but should is Cora. He let Houck pitch the 7th, yay, but wait a minute, his pitch count was only 86. What is it? Pitch counts or innings? I know, whichever gets them out of the game the fastest. I understood pulling Giolito considering he just got back but this is getting ridiculous. Cora and Casas, get em out of here. I was listening to the radio broadcast and they said Casas is purposely only swinging at certain strikes ie not high ones...and he's tall! 

You have to realize that Cora is Daddy Day Care.

[Maxbialystock]

11 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

2 examples of how to snatch  defeat from the jaws of victory.     

Hate to say it but Slaten's previous effectiveness was not visible in these losses.

But .500 teams sooner or later find their water level.    Failure to hit with men on base  , except for Bregman is a defect here, along with the K's.   8 so far in 8 innings,

Agree on your first statement.  Horrible bullpen.  

Disagree on the 3d, that this is a .500 team.  The Jays ain't much, except at home where they are now 10-6, compared to 5-10 on the road.  

That's at least twice in this series when Abreu took the wrong route, both times he went too far toward centerfield.  The first time he corrected just in time to grab it.  Tonight  he was nowhere near the ball--complete flub (but not an error of course).  

Going into tonight's game the Sox ranked 6th in MLB in runs scored.  

Among the starters, Crochet's ERA is 2.05, Bello's is 3.27, Fitts' is 3.18, and Dobbins' is 2.45.  And tonight Houck went 7 innings while giving up 1 run.  Giolito looked almost decent his first time out in a long time--5 IP, 3 ER.  

While this week is a lesson--on the wrong side--of how important a bullpen can be, I think this team nevertheless has 3 strengths:  hitting, starting pitching, and, believe it or not, fielding.   They are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays.  A 4th strength is the farm system.  

 

[jdc69]

14 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

You have to realize that Cora is Daddy Day Care.

I totally agree.

[Maxbialystock]

19 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

I think the one guy who no one complains about but should is Cora. He let Houck pitch the 7th, yay, but wait a minute, his pitch count was only 86. What is it? Pitch counts or innings? I know, whichever gets them out of the game the fastest. I understood pulling Giolito considering he just got back but this is getting ridiculous. Cora and Casas, get em out of here. I was listening to the radio broadcast and they said Casas is purposely only swinging at certain strikes ie not high ones...and he's tall! 

You really mean that crap about Houck going 8, maybe 9 innings?  Pitch count is important, but so is the number of times through the lineup.  That's supposed to give a huge advantage to relievers because they rarely face batters twice. 

Before tonight Slaten had pitched 8.1 innings in April and given up zero runs.  You can look it up.  

[Maxbialystock]

24 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

You have to realize that Cora is Daddy Day Care.

Love your stuff, but the above is just wrong.  There are endless articles about the importance of the bullpen, largely because the third time through a batting order is risky. Had Houck stayed in to pitch the 8th he would have been facing Bichette for the 4th time.  And, if any of Clement, Lukes or Bichette got on base, he would face Guerrero for the 4th time.  

As I've already said, going into this game Slaten had pitched 8.1 innings in April and given up 0 ER's.  

Your commentary reeks of 20-20 hindsight that also lacks any analytical basis.  

[FredLynn]

48 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Agree on your first statement.  Horrible bullpen.  

Disagree on the 3d, that this is a .500 team.  The Jays ain't much, except at home where they are now 10-6, compared to 5-10 on the road.  

That's at least twice in this series when Abreu took the wrong route, both times he went too far toward centerfield.  The first time he corrected just in time to grab it.  Tonight  he was nowhere near the ball--complete flub (but not an error of course).  

Going into tonight's game the Sox ranked 6th in MLB in runs scored.  

Among the starters, Crochet's ERA is 2.05, Bello's is 3.27, Fitts' is 3.18, and Dobbins' is 2.45.  And tonight Houck went 7 innings while giving up 1 run.  Giolito looked almost decent his first time out in a long time--5 IP, 3 ER.  

While this week is a lesson--on the wrong side--of how important a bullpen can be, I think this team nevertheless has 3 strengths:  hitting, starting pitching, and, believe it or not, fielding.   They are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays.  A 4th strength is the farm system.  

 

Did they make it to .500 yet?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Slaten is the closer of our future!

So, tell me more about how lousy the jays are.......

[Maxbialystock]

5 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

So, tell me more about how lousy the jays are.......

They are 10-6 at home and 5-10 on the road.  

The Sox win all three if Whitlock isn't horrible in game 2 and Slaten in game 3.  Before tonight Slaten pitched 8.1 innings in April with 0 ER's.  Before last night Whitlock had pitched 16.2  innings with 3 ER' and an ERA of 1.62.  

5 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

So, tell me more about how lousy the jays are.......

 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

Agree on your first statement.  Horrible bullpen.  

Disagree on the 3d, that this is a .500 team.  The Jays ain't much, except at home where they are now 10-6, compared to 5-10 on the road.  

That's at least twice in this series when Abreu took the wrong route, both times he went too far toward centerfield.  The first time he corrected just in time to grab it.  Tonight  he was nowhere near the ball--complete flub (but not an error of course).  

Going into tonight's game the Sox ranked 6th in MLB in runs scored.  

Among the starters, Crochet's ERA is 2.05, Bello's is 3.27, Fitts' is 3.18, and Dobbins' is 2.45.  And tonight Houck went 7 innings while giving up 1 run.  Giolito looked almost decent his first time out in a long time--5 IP, 3 ER.  

While this week is a lesson--on the wrong side--of how important a bullpen can be, I think this team nevertheless has 3 strengths:  hitting, starting pitching, and, believe it or not, fielding.   They are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays.  A 4th strength is the farm system.  

 

they are also 6th in MLB in runs allowed. 

[Maxbialystock]

3 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

they are also 6th in MLB in runs allowed. 

Pitching is the big weakness, no question.  But I think it will come around.  

[illinoisredsox]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

What would make me happy?

Anthony for Rafaela 

Mayer for Hamilton (when he gets healthy)

Grissom for Gonzalez (Grissom is hot, Gonzalez is cooling)

 

What say you Moon?

Mayer’s not coming up to sit on the bench (which is what Hamilton does most of the time, tonight was his 10th start of the year, most of which have been for Rafaela, not Campbell) .  If he’s brought up, it’s because Story or Campbell is hurt.

Grissom for Gonzalez, meh.  I could take it or leave it. Grissom’s never done much at the major league level  and we really don’t know if he can play first, though I understand he’s playing some games there in Worcester, so it could be in the cards.  Gonzalez hasn’t really done anything to merit demotion, but he’s a fungible player.

The backup infielders are hardly the Sox main problem.

 

 

 

[jdc69]

4 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

You really mean that crap about Houck going 8, maybe 9 innings?  Pitch count is important, but so is the number of times through the lineup.  That's supposed to give a huge advantage to relievers because they rarely face batters twice. 

Before tonight Slaten had pitched 8.1 innings in April and given up zero runs.  You can look it up.  

I'm saying why not wait until he gets in a little trouble. Hes earned the right to continue, within reason. I've heard that the theory is that they get easier to hit after 3 but you are talking about the difference between someone who is doing very well and dialed in and someone who is pretty cold and you don't know what you're going to get. If pitchers cared about wins and losses, they'd be pretty pissed at Cora by now.

[Nick]

7 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

Mayer’s not coming up to sit on the bench (which is what Hamilton does most of the time, tonight was his 10th start of the year, most of which have been for Rafaela, not Campbell) .  If he’s brought up, it’s because Story or Campbell is hurt.

Grissom for Gonzalez, meh.  I could take it or leave it. Grissom’s never done much at the major league level  and we really don’t know if he can play first, though I understand he’s playing some games there in Worcester, so it could be in the cards.  Gonzalez hasn’t really done anything to merit demotion, but he’s a fungible player.

The backup infielders are hardly the Sox main problem.

 

We are not getting the production out of our center fielder. We have perhaps the best prospect that can play center field or play left. It's not as though our defense will suffer greatly. Duran can play center and I'm sure Anthony is more than capable of filling in at left. Our defense will not suffer greatly but offense will gain immensely. 

I would not bring up the topic Grissom if not for Casas. Gonzalez is slowing down offensively. I would like to see what Grissom can do now that he's healthy. It's time to find out. 

We can give more at bats for Mayer. Hamilton only plays 2B. Cora is uncomfortable playing him at short. Mayer I believe can play 2B and shortstop and probably 3B.

At some point, both Bregman and Story will need a day off here and there. Same goes for Campbell. Also with projected 3 starting left handers playing the outfield, Campbell can move to the outfield to provide a right handed bat along with Refsnyder. Again, Mayer can fill in at 2B.

What's the goal here? To make the playoffs. Switching out Rafaela/Hamilton/Gonzalez with Anthony/Mayer/Grissom? You take your 3 and I'll take my 3 and I WILL BEAT YOU.

Our starting rotation appears to be coming around. Our bullpen did fail us the last two games but the bigger problem was we wasted several opportunities to score additional runs, even in the game we lost 6-7.

We are a decent offensive team but we can get better.

Our CORE lineup at some point should have Mayer playing short, Campbell playing second and Anthony in the outfield. Sooner we get to that, our organization will be much better.

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

5 hours ago, jdc69 said:

I'm saying why not wait until he gets in a little trouble. Hes earned the right to continue, within reason. I've heard that the theory is that they get easier to hit after 3 but you are talking about the difference between someone who is doing very well and dialed in and someone who is pretty cold and you don't know what you're going to get. If pitchers cared about wins and losses, they'd be pretty pissed at Cora by now.

It's the modern game.  In the old days Houck would absolutely have been sent out for the 8th.  Of course if Houck was sent out last night and got beat, Cora would be crucified for that too.

[mvp 78]

10 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Casas had an OPS of .800 and.856 the last two years. I’d give him more time.

He has until Memorial Day for me. He has to be closer to 700 by then though...

[Hugh2]

What's frustrating is this team was looking poised to go on a run, and then two pitchers who otherwise have been great for you this year are the two who really blew it this series. Whitlock and Slaten. 

 

Both those games Giolito and Houck gave you something to be optimistic on and then two guys who haven't been the problem this year blow it.  

Everyone has bad games, even the best of them, but their timing certainly sucks. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

9 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

 

The Sox win all three if Whitlock isn't horrible in game 2 and Slaten in game 3. 

 

And the jays win all three if they scored more runs than the sox in each of the three games.

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

What's frustrating is this team was looking poised to go on a run, and then two pitchers who otherwise have been great for you this year are the two who really blew it this series. Whitlock and Slaten. 

 

Both those games Giolito and Houck gave you something to be optimistic on and then two guys who haven't been the problem this year blow it.  

Everyone has bad games, even the best of them, but their timing certainly sucks. 

This is exactly how I feel about this series. 

Slaten has arguably cost the Sox 3 games this year:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL202503310.shtml

And games 2 and 3 of this series. 

[moonslav59]

The pen worries seem to be well-founded.

[illinoisredsox]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

This is exactly how I feel about this series. 

Slaten has arguably cost the Sox 3 games this year:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL202503310.shtml

And games 2 and 3 of this series. 

Whitlock was the problem Wednesday.  I don’t put losing a ghost runner game on any pitcher unless he gives up a multiple runs in one of the extras.

[mvp 78]

18 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

He hasn't given up more than 2 in a game so far. 5 of his 6 HRs have been to LHB. TOR is very RHB heavy. There's a chance Houck has a good game tonight. 

I was right about this though. I think teams that load up on LHB will cause Houck trouble until he can figure out his secondary stuff again.