A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Larry Cook]

Got to get the offense to perform if we are going to put a winning streak together 

[oldtimer]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The worst part of the trade would be JH not spending the savings.

Devers has demonstrated over the long term that he is one of the worst defensive third basemen in the league. He is a gifted but erratic hitter who often lacks plate discipline; He appears unhappy at DH and doesn't want  to play 1st, where we now have an  urgent need. As our highest paid player and one who has a long contract, I would think trading him now would be a reasonable move, provided we could get something of com parable value. I don't think Sox management has been smart though so I don't expect them to make the best move for the team. If Devers is this much trouble now, think what he will be when well past his prime. 

How many 1 run games do we have to lose. Bring up our top prospects and replace those that aren't performing. Let's not fritter the season away.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Devers...is a gifted but erratic hitter who often lacks plate discipline...

I've always been more than fine with players who lack some plate discipline but continuously put up real good numbers. I think it actually makes pitching to the team more difficult, when you face a variety of hitting approaches in a given line-up.

Devers can hit taters on pitches outside the strike zone, and that is always a challenge for pitchers, especially the great ones, as they are masters at getting batters to swing at balls outside the K zone. Most miss them and walk back to the bench, including very disciplined batters.

I also think we need to cut him some slack on using the words "lack of discipline."  While the phrase does not mean no discipline, the context is often that the guy will swing at anything and everything, which normally translates to very few walks. That is far from the case with Devers. You can't walk as much as he does and fully lack plate discipline.

He has a .346 OBP and is currently leading the league in Walks. He has a .353 OBP from age 22 onwards and .356 from 25 to today. As most MLB players are having lower and lower OBPs, Devers has been slowly improving. (.359 from 2024-2025.)

Since 2022, top BB% on Sox (800+ PAs)

13.7 Casas

10.1 Devers

7.1 Story

7.0 Verdugo

6.8 Duran

6.1 Yoshida

5.9 Wong

500-799 PAs

10.3 Abreu

10.2 Refsnyder

9.0 Bogey

8.7 JD

8.1 Turner

7.7 Kike

4.0 Arroyo

3.4 Rafaela

I'll take the Devers O numbers 24/7/365.

[Maxbialystock]

7 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Devers has demonstrated over the long term that he is one of the worst defensive third basemen in the league. He is a gifted but erratic hitter who often lacks plate discipline; He appears unhappy at DH and doesn't want  to play 1st, where we now have an  urgent need. As our highest paid player and one who has a long contract, I would think trading him now would be a reasonable move, provided we could get something of com parable value. I don't think Sox management has been smart though so I don't expect them to make the best move for the team. If Devers is this much trouble now, think what he will be when well past his prime. 

How many 1 run games do we have to lose. Bring up our top prospects and replace those that aren't performing. Let's not fritter the season away.

He could well be one of the worst defenders, but the Sox kept him at 3b for 8 straight seasons, plus he made the all-star team 3 out of the last 4 years.

I like the addition of Bregman, but I also like moving Devers to DH, which to me is a win-win.  He can hit while avoiding both errors and injuries.   He is no doubt overpaid as a DH, but his lifetime OPS is .854 and could well improve at the DH position.  

To remind:  nobody griped when Ortiz and then JDM were full time DH's.  Hitting is vastly more important than defense.  

[vegasbob]

Watching a replay of the extra innings from last night led to 2 questions:

Could Connor Wong be any worse at framing, pitch calling and blocking than he already is ?  Of course his prowess at the plate covers the catching deficiencies.        Do your job, Craig, and find another catcher.

Could anyone be less adept  at baseball skills than Toro ?     There was a reason he was stockpiled at Worcester .  That is about his high water mark.

[alsoason]

We are at the quarter pole and 2025 looks alot like 2024 record wise so far. The bottom three have collectively have been MIA. baseball in general some very high scoring games early on, makes me wonder what the summer holds when the ball really starts to fly. They need to hit better then they have so far to be a force going forward. We NEED RUNS, lot's of them. 

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, vegasbob said:

Watching a replay of the extra innings from last night led to 2 questions:

Could Connor Wong be any worse at framing, pitch calling and blocking than he already is ?  Of course his prowess at the plate covers the catching deficiencies.        Do your job, Craig, and find another catcher.

Could anyone be less adept  at baseball skills than Toro ?     There was a reason he was stockpiled at Worcester .  That is about his high water mark.

He did, he got Narvaez who I think you will see at least 50% of the time from here on out.

[Hugh2]

On 5/9/2025 at 8:12 AM, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Brez just needs to make an overpay offer to convince them: 

Yophory and a draft pick and a minor league arm to be named later...

They can’t trade draft picks

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

44 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

They can’t trade draft picks

That's what I thought, until last month when Breslow traded Quinn Priester for two minor leaguers and a draft pick.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 minute ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

That's what I thought, until last month when Breslow traded Quinn Priester for two minor leaguers and a draft pick.

I also thought Marcelo Mayer was going to be the first minor leaguer called up as soon as an infielder went to the IL with an injury -- because that's what we were told by Red Sox management when he was cut and the team broke camp.

In the past week, TWO infielders went on the IL -- Casas and Romy. The Sox called up Toro and Sogard.

I'm so sick of being lied to by people in charge.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

He could well be one of the worst defenders, but the Sox kept him at 3b for 8 straight seasons, plus he made the all-star team 3 out of the last 4 years.

I like the addition of Bregman, but I also like moving Devers to DH, which to me is a win-win.  He can hit while avoiding both errors and injuries.   He is no doubt overpaid as a DH, but his lifetime OPS is .854 and could well improve at the DH position.  

To remind:  nobody griped when Ortiz and then JDM were full time DH's.  Hitting is vastly more important than defense.  

Which makes DH easier to fill. 
 

All Star or not, he’s not a good defensive 3b.  
 

If Cora said he didn’t think Devers should play first because he wouldn’t be very good, thats one thing.  That’s a managerial decision. (Or if Devers said the same thing, that’s ok too.)

But Devers saying he doesn’t refusing because want to be moved around again is completely different.  If Chapman blew a few saves and refused to go to the setup role, would you agree with him? 

[Hugh2]

41 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

That's what I thought, until last month when Breslow traded Quinn Priester for two minor leaguers and a draft pick.

That was a comp pick.  Those are the only pics that can be traded and they can only be traded by the team they’re awarded to.  

[Hugh2]

33 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I also thought Marcelo Mayer was going to be the first minor leaguer called up as soon as an infielder went to the IL with an injury -- because that's what we were told by Red Sox management when he was cut and the team broke camp.

In the past week, TWO infielders went on the IL -- Casas and Romy. The Sox called up Toro and Sogard.

I'm so sick of being lied to by people in charge.

That’s not what I got from them at all.  The Sox have been very adamant about those guys playing everyday.  They’re not calling them up until they have an everyday position.  They’re also not going to call them up and simultaneously ask them to play a new position.  They’ve specifically said they do not believe in asking a guy to play a new position at the same time as learning to be a big leaguer.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

That’s not what I got from them at all.  The Sox have been very adamant about those guys playing everyday.  They’re not calling them up until they have an everyday position.  They’re also not going to call them up and simultaneously ask them to play a new position.  They’ve specifically said they do not believe in asking a guy to play a new position at the same time as learning to be a big leaguer.  

It was a direct quote by Cora in an interview I watched. He probably meant Mayer would be the first call-up for an injured 2B, SS or 3B only.

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

It was a direct quote by Cora in an interview I watched. He probably meant Mayer would be the first call-up for an injured 2B, SS or 3B only.

I was listening to an interview with the Sox head of player development and he said exactly what I said about those young guys.   Breslow has also said the same thing too.

I think that’s what Cora was talking about 

[MADSTORK]

13 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Devers has demonstrated over the long term that he is one of the worst defensive third basemen in the league. He is a gifted but erratic hitter who often lacks plate discipline; He appears unhappy at DH and doesn't want  to play 1st, where we now have an  urgent need. As our highest paid player and one who has a long contract, I would think trading him now would be a reasonable move, provided we could get something of com parable value. I don't think Sox management has been smart though so I don't expect them to make the best move for the team. If Devers is this much trouble now, think what he will be when well past his prime. 

How many 1 run games do we have to lose. Bring up our top prospects and replace those that aren't performing. Let's not fritter the season away.

off your rocker Old timer! 
See Betts

your going to lose more 1 run games minus Devers bat !

Team needs Pitching, Again, the lack of this Organizations ability to develop (see Abraham) is mind boggling 

The Team has lost 8 plus games due to the Geritol bullpen full of beer leaguers

it is the same issue year after year, castoffs and 30 plus yr old beer leaguers costing u games

Trade Chip is Duran, move him and his on field antics vs fans which at some point is going to cost u big time! Get Pitching while opening a position for Anthony

if your real lucky an offense starved team might take Story with cash for a fringe arm

Again, Ridiculous roster configuration which ain’t all breezelows fault but 

 

 

 

 

[Hugh2]

I’ve seen some facts before in my lifetime, but my god…..those ones are indisputable.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm not trading a player with a lifetime OPS of .854. They'll figure it out, I'm also not trading Duran as one could argue he is the driving force on this team and his speed puts enormous pressure on the defense.  Players like that don't come around too often.  

[Soxlover]

I’m glad Devers can tune all the turmoil out, when he’s up to bat.

[Maxbialystock]

18 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Watching a replay of the extra innings from last night led to 2 questions:

Could Connor Wong be any worse at framing, pitch calling and blocking than he already is ?  Of course his prowess at the plate covers the catching deficiencies.        Do your job, Craig, and find another catcher.

Could anyone be less adept  at baseball skills than Toro ?     There was a reason he was stockpiled at Worcester .  That is about his high water mark.

See the Mayes article today, Sunday.  The numbers say Wong has improved a lot from last year in key catching stats.  This does not mean I think Narvaez isn't a great addition because he is.  

I'm not sure the catcher calls the pitches these days.  

[jdc69]

The only thing we lack is an upper tier bullpen. Winning just one of those losses to Toronto, especially the one Houck pitched, we would be happier campers. I think those losses kicked this club, with many new faces, still finding it's way, straight in the nether regions. I argue starters should pitch longer when doing well and even when not being perfect, but we still need a more reliable bullpen.

Edit-Guess it's not MANY new faces on offense but there's much more pressure to do well with all the changes.

[Soxlover]

I’m thrilled with what I’ve see from Narvaez, so far.

[Bellhorn04]

15 minutes ago, Soxlover said:

I’m thrilled with what I’ve see from Narvaez, so far.

Looks like a steal by Breslow.

[Soxlover]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Looks like a steal by Breslow.

I like him more than Wong, already.

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, Soxlover said:

I like him more than Wong, already.

Sox are 16-10 in Narvaez starts.

[Nick]

We really missed on this one.

Kyle Schwarber lf
4 years/$79M (2022-25)

• 4 years/$79M (2022-25)
  • signed by Philadelphia as a free agent 3/17/22
  • 22:$19M, 23:$20M, 24:$20M, 25:$20M
  • 2022 46 HR 94 RBI .827 OPS
  • 2023 47 HR 104 RBI .817 OPS
  • 2024 38 HR 104 RBI .851 OPS
  •  
  • Trevor Story 2022-27 6 years, $140M ($23M tax payroll annually)
  • Yoshida  2023-27 5 years, $90M ($18M per year)
  • Defensive shortstops are dime a dozen.

[notin]

21 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Watching a replay of the extra innings from last night led to 2 questions:

Could Connor Wong be any worse at framing, pitch calling and blocking than he already is ?  Of course his prowess at the plate covers the catching deficiencies.        Do your job, Craig, and find another catcher.

Could anyone be less adept  at baseball skills than Toro ?     There was a reason he was stockpiled at Worcester .  That is about his high water mark.

Abraham Toro has brief history of going on hot streaks when initially called up, causing many fans to remark “where was this guy hiding?”  They’re inevitably followed  by cold streaks where those same fans ask “can we send him back there?”

 

We never got the hot streak…

 

[Nick]

How much is Hamilton really worth during the regular season.

I can see his speed being an asset during the playoffs but now? Not getting enough at bats and his fielding is still shaky.

He still has an option. Tuck him away in AAA.

Bring up Mayer and let him play 2B. It's time.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

How much is Hamilton really worth during the regular season.

I can see his speed being an asset during the playoffs but now? Not getting enough at bats and his fielding is still shaky.

He still has an option. Tuck him away in AAA.

Bring up Mayer and let him play 2B. It's time.

And bench  Campbell?

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, notin said:

And bench  Campbell?

Maybe CF, and keep Anthony in AAA?

Hmmm....