Article: A Plea For The Red Sox To Sign Juan Soto

[notin]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We had one of those, but John Henry obviously doesn't buy into the concept! 

There is a difference now.

It helps on these mega-deals if a team has a supply of minimum wage talent to offset the cost of the superstar somewhat.  The Sox didn’t have that in 2020.  They do now.  They also have fewer big exiting contracts right now.  
 

This doesn’t mean they will make a competitive offer for Soto, but they are at least in a different position to do so.  The increase from Betts to Soto is massive, but had they extended Betts, they would also still have had the $93mill owed to Price, which might make up for close to maybe 40% of the gap…

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed, but in theory, dumping all of Price's deal would have allowed us to offer more for Betts, but I do not think JH would have done it, anyway.

Sorry but I don't really understand what you're saying.

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sorry but I don't really understand what you're saying.

I did mean it the way you took it, but also in a more general sense, as well.

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I did mean it the way you took it, but also in a more general sense, as well.

OK I mis-read your post a little the first time.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

OK I mis-read your post a little the first time.

I remember arguing with 700 that including Price was a big negative impact on the return. 700 thought he was a plus at half price.

I also agree with notin that we pivoted to Sale & Bogey once JH decided Betts was not returning at a cost more than he allowed. It was a done deal with or without Price.

[Hitch]

I think they're likely very serious on Soto and would love him on the team. 

I'm also pretty sure they're getting out bid by at least the two NY teams. 

 

Things do feel different this off season whatever the outcome of this. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, notin said:

There is a difference now.

It helps on these mega-deals if a team has a supply of minimum wage talent to offset the cost of the superstar somewhat.  The Sox didn’t have that in 2020.  They do now.  

Not a bad argument, and it reminds me in a way of the excuse Bloom made at Winter Weekend a few years ago for trading Betts: the Red Sox couldn't surround him with whatever -- a sustainable core, young talent, cheap talent...

But when it came to extending Raffy, said Chaim, "You know what's coming, so we're willing to make that bet!"

Several crap place finishes later, it's still coming...

Meanwhile, as much as Soto was a perfect fit in New York, now that another Judge postseason disappearing act is in the books, does anyone think the Yankees would have made it to the World Series without him? How about even winning a round in the playoffs?

Does anyone doubt Soto could do the same thing to help boost Boston and its big slugger, Mr. Devers... like, a lot sooner than any fan can dream possible? 

Certain superstar power can make that much difference in the way all other hitters in the lineup are pitched to. The Yanks can instead sign Bregman, Adames, Alonso and Santander, and still not be as good in 2025 -- without Soto looming in the batting order.

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, notin said:

There is a difference now.

It helps on these mega-deals if a team has a supply of minimum wage talent to offset the cost of the superstar somewhat.  The Sox didn’t have that in 2020.  They do now.  They also have fewer big exiting contracts right now.  
 

This doesn’t mean they will make a competitive offer for Soto, but they are at least in a different position to do so.  The increase from Betts to Soto is massive, but had they extended Betts, they would also still have had the $93mill owed to Price, which might make up for close to maybe 40% of the gap…

Price was an unrestricted FA after 2022. They just had to hold their nose for 3 years. This ownership is just impatient at times for weird reasons. Should have extended Betts and tried to rebuild around him. Trade the other expiring contracts. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox brass flying out to meet Soto. Is it even feasible -- as some suggest -- the entire purpose of the flight is just for show?

Doesn't an eccentric old rich guy like John Henry have anything better to do than take a cross-country plane ride, even if it's on his private jet, without making some kind of major purchase?

And isn't he above PR stunts "just for show" -- and why he still keeps Sam Kennedy on the payroll?

One thing's for certain: all major free agents and their agents are waiting on Soto to sign, so they can welcome the subsequent offers shifting their way from the big money losers...

[mvp 78]

On 11/14/2024 at 7:07 AM, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Sox brass flying out to meet Soto. Is it even feasible -- as some suggest -- the entire purpose of the flight is just for show?

Doesn't an eccentric old rich guy like John Henry have anything better to do than take a cross-country plane ride, even if it's on his private jet, without making some kind of major purchase?

And isn't he above PR stunts "just for show" -- and why he still keeps Sam Kennedy on the payroll?

One thing's for certain: all major free agents and their agents are waiting on Soto to sign, so they can welcome the subsequent offers shifting their way from the big money losers...

It wasn't vampiro, it was Tom Werner, the man with stars in his eyes. I don't know if that portends good things for this deal. Werner may be all in on Soto, but Henry could easily say no. 

[Bellhorn04]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:07 AM, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Sox brass flying out to meet Soto. Is it even feasible -- as some suggest -- the entire purpose of the flight is just for show?

Doesn't an eccentric old rich guy like John Henry have anything better to do than take a cross-country plane ride, even if it's on his private jet, without making some kind of major purchase?

And isn't he above PR stunts "just for show" -- and why he still keeps Sam Kennedy on the payroll?

One thing's for certain: all major free agents and their agents are waiting on Soto to sign, so they can welcome the subsequent offers shifting their way from the big money losers...

That's what we said last year about Yamamoto.  I think Boras may have said it to Snell and Montgomery. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That's what we said last year about Yamamoto.  I think Boras may have said it to Snell and Montgomery. 

True, but those backfired on him, and the industry thinks Soto will decide fairly soon. It's not like small market or even mid-market clubs can hold enough holiday bake sales to raise funds and get in the game.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

True, but those backfired on him, and the industry thinks Soto will decide fairly soon. It's not like small market or even mid-market clubs can hold enough holiday bake sales to raise funds and get in the game.

Kids need their Soto jerseys for Christmas!

[Bellhorn04]

Soto and Manny are a pretty cool comp.

Career OPS/OPS+

Juan Soto .953/160

Manny Ramirez .996/154

As we can see Manny benefited a bit more than Soto from the period he played in and the parks he played in.  

[notin]

27 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Soto and Manny are a pretty cool comp.

Career OPS/OPS+

Juan Soto .953/160

Manny Ramirez .996/154

As we can see Manny benefited a bit more than Soto from the period he played in and the parks he played in.  

Soto would also be 3 years younger than Manny was when the latter signed with Boston…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Big Papi told Bradford he was with Soto's mother and brother last night; they live in the same building.

Juan grew up a Red Sox fan. Fellow Dominican legends Ortiz, Ramirez and Martinez may still be big influences. 

(Julian Tavarez -- maybe not so much...)

[Hugh2]

I know the donny downers will have a field day with this but I think there's a legit shot for Boston to sign him.  It feels very different to me, I think they're legit making a hard run at him. 

Now with that said, they still have to legit contend with NY/NY/LA on this so......maybe we find out how much of a Red Sox fan he actually was growing up.  Not saying that matters, but if the money is equal you think it would be. 

[Bellhorn04]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I know the donny downers will have a field day with this but I think there's a legit shot for Boston to sign him.  It feels very different to me, I think they're legit making a hard run at him. 

Now with that said, they still have to legit contend with NY/NY/LA on this so......maybe we find out how much of a Red Sox fan he actually was growing up.  Not saying that matters, but if the money is equal you think it would be. 

I do now suspect it will be similar to the Yamamoto case, where the player ultimately gets to pick which one of the high roller teams he wants to play for, with the astronomical amount of the contract obviously a given.

 

   

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I know the donny downers will have a field day with this but I think there's a legit shot for Boston to sign him.  It feels very different to me, I think they're legit making a hard run at him. 

Now with that said, they still have to legit contend with NY/NY/LA on this so......maybe we find out how much of a Red Sox fan he actually was growing up.  Not saying that matters, but if the money is equal you think it would be. 

It would be cool for FOX to have to show pics of a young Juan Soto wearing a Red Sox cap, to compliment/insult past pics of Yankee youths Cole and Volpe. 

But we know they won't be able to stomach it. They always have to leave room on promos to show vids of Bucky, Buckner and Boone...

... to fill in for the missing footage of Brock Holt's cycle at the Stadium, and Eovaldi beating NY in two different postseasons; lowlights which apparently never existed in the history of this century.

[sk7326]

I think Soto is heavily likely to stay in Noo Yawk for somebody.

That said, I think Boston's interest in sincere.  Now, longer term - Soto is going to be a LF/DH type - the Manny comp is a fine one here.  But he doesn't HAVE to be blocking any of the team's big time outfield prospects ... and if he frees up one of Casas or Devers to be moved for quality pitching so much the better.

The other thing I think that works here for the Sox to be REALLY interested is Soto still only being 26.  This is a case where the Sox will be buying mostly prime years.  These opportunities in free agency just don't happen that often.  Now, while I certainly ripped Boston for how they handled the Betts business - the basic decision about whether someone with Betts' profile would hold up in his 30s was at least a fair question.  

[sk7326]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I do now suspect it will be similar to the Yamamoto case, where the player ultimately gets to pick which one of the high roller teams he wants to play for, with the astronomical amount of the contract obviously a given.

 

   

100% - guys his age don't hit the market often so the $$ is destined.  

[notin]

59 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Big Papi told Bradford he was with Soto's mother and brother last night; they live in the same building.

Juan grew up a Red Sox fan. Fellow Dominican legends Ortiz, Ramirez and Martinez may still be big influences. 

(Julian Tavarez -- maybe not so much...)

How much pull does Fernando Abad have?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

How much pull does Fernando Abad have?

Agood one.

Asplendid time is guaranteed for all.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I know the donny downers will have a field day with this but I think there's a legit shot for Boston to sign him.  It feels very different to me, I think they're legit making a hard run at him. 

Now with that said, they still have to legit contend with NY/NY/LA on this so......maybe we find out how much of a Red Sox fan he actually was growing up.  Not saying that matters, but if the money is equal you think it would be. 

They have a shot, it's up to ownership to nut up. 

[sk7326]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:29 AM, mvp 78 said:

I just cringe a little at the COVID/Betts contract conjecture because it was used at the time to give Henry cover by some posters for not being able to get a deal done. Henry messed up. If he just paid the 400M to Mookie, it would have been an overpay, but we'd be in a better spot right now. 

For me, the mistake with Betts was not dealing him at the deadline in 2019.  If you KNEW you were not going to pay him, trade him where you could drive a bidding war and where a team could get him for 2 playoff runs.  And of course, the team valued the David Price salary dump more than actual baseball players.  

[Randy Red Sox]

On 11/9/2024 at 6:26 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

Do you think it's a real possibility that Henry is going to duke it out with the behemoths for Soto?

how about duking it out for a SP?

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, Randy Red Sox said:

how about duking it out for a SP?

Of course, SP should be the priority, but you can't pass up a chance to take a shot at a generational talent like Soto. 

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

Of course, SP should be the priority, but you can't pass up a chance to take a shot at a generational talent like Soto. 

if we get Soto but not any quality additions to Pitching it will be a lost cause. Outfield is where we have our most depth

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

how about duking it out for a SP?

Ding, ding, ding!

The winner is....

[Hugh2]

There’s literally no respectable argument for not signing Soto if you can