Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Sox also had 8 position players in 2024 who had negative WAR.  Having more up the middle guys and better depth should mean at least one less of those guys. 

Uh huh, but we're talking about 2025 projections. None of the guys currently poised to be on the Opening Day Roster are projected to have negative fWAR this year. Just adding Bregman doesn't add his projection, it also takes away projected fWAR from somewhere else. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

It would also take someone's fWAR off the roster, but not sure who they would project. 

I'd say Devers/Casas shaare DH/1B duties, with Yoshida/Ref DH'ing on off days and platooning LF when not riding the bench. Duran plays CF (LF, when Yoshida/Ref are benched) and Abreu-Rafaela platoon RF w Rafaela playing some CF, 2B and maybe SS when not in RF.

Maybe we try even harder to dump Yoshida, if we sign Bregman.

[Bellhorn04]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Running out of time for a move? 

 

Lots of time, they just would rather keep the money. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Lots of time, they just would rather keep the money. 

There's time, but fewer players to choose from. Less players to choose from? 

[Bellhorn04]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

There's time, but fewer players to choose from. Less players to choose from? 

Fewer, I believe.  Without looking it up, less refers to a single quantity, whereas fewer refers to individual items. 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

It would also take someone's fWAR off the roster, but not sure who they would project. 

yeah, i thought about that.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Fewer, I believe.  Without looking it up, less refers to a single quantity, whereas fewer refers to individual items. 

The simplest way to remember is it if you’re dealing with countable nouns.  If so, than use fewer.

Fewer pitchers.

Fewer hits. 


Fewer dollars.

Fewer errors.

Less is for those uncountable nouns.

Less effort.

Less attitude.

Less money (see “fewer dollars” above)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

The simplest way to remember is it if you’re dealing with countable nouns.  If so, than use fewer.

Fewer pitchers.

Fewer hits. 


Fewer dollars.

Fewer errors.

Less is for those uncountable nouns.

Less effort.

Less attitude.

Less money (see “fewer dollars” above)

Fewer posters who even bother to react to those in authority who lie for a living to the media.

Less is moored to the docks of Boston Harbor.

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Uh huh, but we're talking about 2025 projections. None of the guys currently poised to be on the Opening Day Roster are projected to have negative fWAR this year. Just adding Bregman doesn't add his projection, it also takes away projected fWAR from somewhere else. 

Yes but realistically there's going to be a bottom of the roster that does throughout the season as guys add their war over 162 games not day 1.  If the first guy off the roster is a net positive, he'll be one of the first ones up with better depth anyways.  

I don't think it's as simple as saying Romy Gonzalez gets the boot and he plays zero games and adds no value.  He's projected to get 288 at bats.  Whether or not he starts the year in Boston might not have much of an effect on that. 

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd say Devers/Casas shaare DH/1B duties, with Yoshida/Ref DH'ing on off days and platooning LF when not riding the bench. Duran plays CF (LF, when Yoshida/Ref are benched) and Abreu-Rafaela platoon RF w Rafaela playing some CF, 2B and maybe SS when not in RF.

Maybe we try even harder to dump Yoshida, if we sign Bregman.

Something tells me they won't.  All hints point to him at 2nd base.  But the team is much better if they explore dumping Yoshida and moving Devers to DH and plug Bregman in at 3B. 

Breaking up is hard to do. 

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, notin said:

The simplest way to remember is it if you’re dealing with countable nouns.  If so, than use fewer.

Fewer pitchers.

Fewer hits. 


Fewer dollars.

Fewer errors.

Less is for those uncountable nouns.

Less effort.

Less attitude.

Less money (see “fewer dollars” above)

We need to use the words "less" and "fewer" less often.

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Something tells me they won't.  All hints point to him at 2nd base.  But the team is much better if they explore dumping Yoshida and moving Devers to DH and plug Bregman in at 3B. 

Breaking up is hard to do. 

Exploring is what our front office does best.     

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Something tells me they won't.  All hints point to him at 2nd base.  But the team is much better if they explore dumping Yoshida and moving Devers to DH and plug Bregman in at 3B. 

Breaking up is hard to do. 

I'm thinking Devers is probably better on D at 1B than Casas, or would be after a few weeks. Maybe they share 1B/DH duty and will never need a day off.

Devers might enjoy playing in the field, more than D'ing, so maybe that could help his psyche.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

50 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Exploring is what our front office does best.     

Spelunkers, I tell ya. Ever try squeezing through a claustrophobic underground tunnel from an old mineshaft?

Did it once, barely made it through, ducking low -- my backpack was too wide, had to take it off and carry it. 

Old miners had to be as short as leprechauns... I think that's where the etymology of calling little kids minors originated.

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm thinking Devers is probably better on D at 1B than Casas, or would be after a few weeks. Maybe they share 1B/DH duty and will never need a day off.

Devers might enjoy playing in the field, more than D'ing, so maybe that could help his psyche.

 

No offense, but that's a pretty far out assumption.  By all accounts Casas should be able to get better.  He's young, and a student of the game.  People assume anyone can learn first base but you're taking a guy who has never done it and assuming he will be better in a few weeks?  I don't think so.  I'd put more money on Casas improving than Devers learning in a couple weeks. 

I don't subscribe to the whole babying of players.  If Devers couldn't hit as good at DH because of the phycology of not playing the field and having his feelings hurt he never should have been extended.  I actually think most MLbers are not like that at all. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

No offense, but that's a pretty far out assumption.  By all accounts Casas should be able to get better.  He's young, and a student of the game. 

I think he's a student of hitting, not a student of the game. I haven't heard much about him taking extra time to work on his poor defense. He spends a considerable amount of his time perfecting his swing.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

No offense, but that's a pretty far out assumption.  By all accounts Casas should be able to get better.  He's young, and a student of the game.  People assume anyone can learn first base but you're taking a guy who has never done it and assuming he will be better in a few weeks?  I don't think so.  I'd put more money on Casas improving than Devers learning in a couple weeks. 

I don't subscribe to the whole babying of players.  If Devers couldn't hit as good at DH because of the phycology of not playing the field and having his feelings hurt he never should have been extended.  I actually think most MLbers are not like that at all. 

Casas seems to be getting worse, and he has had years to learn the position and improve.

Thirdbasemen often move to 1B rather seamlessly. The reason I think Devers would be better, or at least the same, after a few weeks, is that his main issue at 3B is his inaccurate arm, but his glove, quickness or range. Also, "the few weeks" was not including practice and assuming ST'ing games before the season begins. (Note: we moved Bogey from SS to 3B after just 10games in the minors at 3B.)

This is not about thinking Devers will be a plus on D, in a short time. The bar set by Casas is just be the 27th to 29th best defender at 1B, and we'd improve. CASAS SUCKS ON D!

The psyche part was just put out there, because some, here have mentioned his has a fragile ego and does not want to move off 3B. I don't agree with the "ego" thing, but some players really feel like they are more a part of the game, playing a position and not sitting on the bench during the opps ABs.

I'd let them share 1B/DH, until one shws they are better than the other.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think he's a student of hitting, not a student of the game. I haven't heard much about him taking extra time to work on his poor defense. He spends a considerable amount of his time perfecting his swing.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4207931/2023/02/15/rafael-devers-improving-defense/

[Hugh2]

By all accounts Casas was a good prospect who profiled to have good defense at first, then struggles in his limited time in the majors and he’s been demoted to not only never going to get better, but some guy who’s never played the position is going to be better than you in two weeks?

 

sorry, I don’t most people are going to buy that.

let Raffy focus on hitting, he’s already paid.  Let the youngster learn his craft. 

[drewski6]

2 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

Yes but realistically there's going to be a bottom of the roster that does throughout the season as guys add their war over 162 games not day 1.  If the first guy off the roster is a net positive, he'll be one of the first ones up with better depth anyways.  

I don't think it's as simple as saying Romy Gonzalez gets the boot and he plays zero games and adds no value.  He's projected to get 288 at bats.  Whether or not he starts the year in Boston might not have much of an effect on that. 

Agreed, but thats not talking about the same thing.  The initial conversation related to the impact to projected fWAR at a snapshot in time (immediately after Bregman signing) and you are talking about fWAR at a different snapshot in time (after conclusion of reg season)

[notin]

41 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

By all accounts Casas was a good prospect who profiled to have good defense at first, then struggles in his limited time in the majors and he’s been demoted to not only never going to get better, but some guy who’s never played the position is going to be better than you in two weeks?

 

sorry, I don’t most people are going to buy that.

let Raffy focus on hitting, he’s already paid.  Let the youngster learn his craft. 

I doubt either of them is ever a plus at first base.  But the goal was to upgrade the infield defense, even if that upgrade only takes place at 3b.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Devers was a better defensive first baseman than Casas.  What would surprise me is if he morphed into Youkilis at that position…

[Hugh2]

25 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Agreed, but thats not talking about the same thing.  The initial conversation related to the impact to projected fWAR at a snapshot in time (immediately after Bregman signing) and you are talking about fWAR at a different snapshot in time (after conclusion of reg season)

How can you have a snapshot about "projected war" in a snapshot of time? Fwar is accumulated over the course of a season.

 

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I doubt either of them is ever a plus at first base.  But the goal was to upgrade the infield defense, even if that upgrade only takes place at 3b.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Devers was a better defensive first baseman than Casas.  What would surprise me is if he morphed into Youkilis at that position…

I also wouldn't be surprised if Casas morphed into an above average defender at 1b. He's also going to be happier not moved. 

I know what was said, but I think would play out a lot less ugly if you're moving Devers to DH over Casas. He's fighting for a future payday, while Devers is already locked up.  I'd place my money on Casas putting the work in there to improve and Devers putting the work in to be an elite hitter at DH.  

[Hugh2]

Fwar projections are based off of what a guy will have accumulated by seasons end.  lol

[drewski6]

31 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

How can you have a snapshot about "projected war" in a snapshot of time? Fwar is accumulated over the course of a season.

 

They do it. All 2025 WARs out right now are projected. Snapshot in time being when the projections were made.

[mvp 78]

30 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I also wouldn't be surprised if Casas morphed into an above average defender at 1b. He's also going to be happier not moved. 

I know what was said, but I think would play out a lot less ugly if you're moving Devers to DH over Casas. He's fighting for a future payday, while Devers is already locked up.  I'd place my money on Casas putting the work in there to improve and Devers putting the work in to be an elite hitter at DH.  

What's above average for a 1B? 5 DRS/3 OAA?

[Old Red]

28 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I also wouldn't be surprised if Casas morphed into an above average defender at 1b. He's also going to be happier not moved. 

I know what was said, but I think would play out a lot less ugly if you're moving Devers to DH over Casas. He's fighting for a future payday, while Devers is already locked up.  I'd place my money on Casas putting the work in there to improve and Devers putting the work in to be an elite hitter at DH.  

Was Raffy paid $300M+ to be a 1B let alone a DH? What more work to you think Raffy would be doing to be an elite hitter if he was just the DH that he’s not doing now? This stuff is way over thought IMO.

[drewski6]

29 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Fwar projections are based off of what a guy will have accumulated by seasons end.  lol

Right , and you can make that projection right now, after another signing is made, and at any point during the season, and the projected fWAR will likely vary based on when you are projecting it.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Was Raffy paid $300M+ to be a 1B let alone a DH? What more work to you think Raffy would be doing to be an elite hitter if he was just the DH that he’s not doing now? This stuff is way over thought IMO.

Theres also a durability component. I have no problem with Raffi DH'ing. We need the bat.

[drewski6]

This whole thing has gotten nutty to me, but Im fully convinced that DHs are the most underpaid players / best free agent values you can find.

A DH who anchors your lineup is worth huge. If he hits in the middle and is your top source of RBIs, that dude is undeniably extremely valuable.

Occupying positions is not quite an after-thought, but for positional players....the value is the bat.  Maybe a top defensive SS, maybe 1/2 of their value comes from D.  And thats really the only place where defense can matter as much.  Just look at everyones WAR. Its like offensive WAR - 4. Devensive WAR - 8. Overall WAR (everything included) - 4.3