Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

21 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They're uncomfortable being honest. The truth hurts. The president embarrasses himself every time he opens his mouth.

NESN.com is full of more BS than TV blab shows that zombify the ignorami with purported "news."

No change in climate; even with the new administration, it's still arid. Desolate days, frigid nights.

 

 

Sorry to sound so bitter. I forgot Sam Kennedy told us we were all about world championships, even if we have to spend over the luxury tax threshold.

For a second there, I thought all the Red Sox acquired this winter were Oldman Chapman, a bunch of starting pitchers with elbow issues, and 17 back-up catchers.

In another week it will be February and they'll all be reporting to Florida! LET'S GO!!!!!!!!

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They're uncomfortable being honest. The truth hurts. The president embarrasses himself every time he opens his mouth.

NESN.com is full of more BS than TV blab shows that zombify the ignorami with purported "news."

No change in climate; even with the new administration, it's still arid. Desolate days, frigid nights.

 

 

please stop with your dumbass politics

[moonslav59]

There seems to be a few players still on the market that are getting no firm offers.

You wonder if Pivetta or Flaherty will even sing before opening day.

There are a few RP'ers left, and surely teams want and need to boost their pens, the Sox included.

Bregman and Alonso and a few other everyday players are in limbo.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

please stop with your dumbass politics

Yeah, this seems like a good time to remind everyone: politics are an absolute no-go, no matter how subtly you express your opinions.

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There seems to be a few players still on the market that are getting no firm offers.

You wonder if Pivetta or Flaherty will even sing before opening day.

There are a few RP'ers left, and surely teams want and need to boost their pens, the Sox included.

Bregman and Alonso and a few other everyday players are in limbo.

It's turning out much like last offseason.  There was a flurry of big money signings, we expected it to continue, but then everything really slowed down.  Now it feels like the old game of waiting for the prices to come down.

Flaherty and Pivetta will get signed, but it looks like for much less than they hoped. 

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's turning out much like last offseason.  There was a flurry of big money signings, we expected it to continue, but then everything really slowed down.  Now it feels like the old game of waiting for the prices to come down.

Flaherty and Pivetta will get signed, but it looks like for much less than they hoped. 

Do we lose the comp pick, if Pivetta is not signed by opening day?

Makes me wonder, if he took the comp pick, do we not sign Buehler or Sandoval?

[dgalehouse]

On 1/24/2025 at 8:38 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

If they don't do anything further, the Sox  2025 offense is going to need Anthony and/or Campbell to instantly produce, or it could really stink.  Especially if, God forbid, Devers's shoulder issues linger.

Jansen for Chapman seems like a lateral move at best.  They could easily have done more to bolster the late inning bullpen.  

Credit to Breslow for some bold starting pitching moves, but it still feels like there's something deeply wrong with this organization,  And it seems pretty clear the something wrong is the attention they pay to the payroll budget and the bottom line.

I think being disgruntled can be habit forming and contagious. We had folks on here ( not necessarily yourself) who were saying they would be happy if the Sox only improved their rotation. That was the biggest thing needed to become a contender. The top priority. Now, they are worried about numerous other things. There is always something to be unhappy about if that is what you want. 

[notin]

3 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

please stop with your dumbass politics

Given that his post was in response to one about RHP Dave Robertson, I think the “President” he is referring to is Sam Kennedy and the post itself was apolitical.

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

I think being disgruntled can be habit forming and contagious. We had folks on here ( not necessarily yourself) who were saying they would be happy if the Sox only improved their rotation. That was the biggest thing needed to become a contender. The top priority. Now, they are worried about numerous other things. There is always something to be unhappy about if that is what you want. 

It's nice to have such a constantly optimistic poster on this site.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

I think being disgruntled can be habit forming and contagious. We had folks on here ( not necessarily yourself) who were saying they would be happy if the Sox only improved their rotation. That was the biggest thing needed to become a contender. The top priority. Now, they are worried about numerous other things. There is always something to be unhappy about if that is what you want. 

I'm unhappy because they've won 78, 78 and 81 games and missed the playoffs the last 3 years, and they continue not to spend money the way they could to sign talent, to the detriment of the team.  Most projections have us as an 85 win team or so.  They can do better than that.  They're spending like a mid market team which they're not.  Kennedy says they're aiming to be a 90+ win team, but they're just not backing it up.  They lose O'Neill's bat and do nothing to replace him.   

My beef is not with Breslow.  I think he's probably doing a good job given the restraints he's under.

 

 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Given that his post was in response to one about RHP Dave Robertson, I think the “President” he is referring to is Sam Kennedy and the post itself was apolitical.

then i owe Five G an apology. i missed the connection to Kennedy. looks like i am the dumbass. not the first time. but to be clear, i come here to read about the Red Sox and have zero desire to hear about anyone's political opinions, no matter which side of the aisle one resides.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

then i owe Five G an apology. i missed the connection to Kennedy. looks like i am the dumbass. not the first time. but to be clear, i come here to read about the Red Sox and have zero desire to hear about anyone's political opinions, no matter which side of the aisle one resides.

I thought 5 Gloves was clearly, though cleverly, referencing both presidents.  "New administration" is kind of the giveaway.

But let's all just stop referring to his post and move on.  

[moonslav59]

fangraphs has the Sox ranked 4th in pitching, based on projected fWAR, and this includes a surprising 2nd ranking for the pen. It's not like the winter has been a total waste of time.

For years, we have heard that the focus of our farm has been too heavily on everyday players, and our two biggest free agents signings since 2018 were everyday players, Story and Yoshida. Our big three prospects are everyday players. 

We lost O'Neill and Jansen/McGuire and gained Narvaez. That is clearly a step down, and once again, we have to rely on hoping for health and bounce back years, most notably from Story and Casas, but also by Devers and 1 or 2 of our 2Bmen. Maybe we can see a big boost from Campbell, Anthony and or Mayer, but counting on them is more about hope than anything solid.

When all is said and done, we do look better, on paper, but better than .500 could mean just 82-86 wind, and another playoff miss. We, again, seem to need too much to go right to have a realistic expectation of success in 2025. There is still time to make a meaningful addition, or two, but I'm not thinking that is going down.

It's going to come down to Story or Mayer.

Campbell or our current 2B mix & match.

Improved catcher defense.

Our OF to not regress. (Maybe, Anthony gives it a big boost.)

Our pen to not have to cycle through 6-10 pitchers to find the 8 that work best.

Our rotation to live up to the projections.

[dgalehouse]

23 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm unhappy because they've won 78, 78 and 81 games and missed the playoffs the last 3 years, and they continue not to spend money the way they could to sign talent, to the detriment of the team.  Most projections have us as an 85 win team or so.  They can do better than that.  They're spending like a mid market team which they're not.  Kennedy says they're aiming to be a 90+ win team, but they're just not backing it up.  They lose O'Neill's bat and do nothing to replace him.   

My beef is not with Breslow.  I think he's probably doing a good job given the restraints he's under.

 

 

I agree with this for the most part. I was not a happy camper since they broke up the championship team and decided to try being competitive while simultaneously cutting spending. And the mostly poor results since then were not surprising or encouraging.  But I just think that there is hope for  this year's team. I would surely like to see Henry shell out for the talent needed to complete the picture, but I think Breslow is on the right track for success. And I don't lose any sleep over the corner infield defense or some third string catcher.  

[jdc69]

2 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

I think being disgruntled can be habit forming and contagious. We had folks on here ( not necessarily yourself) who were saying they would be happy if the Sox only improved their rotation. That was the biggest thing needed to become a contender. The top priority. Now, they are worried about numerous other things. There is always something to be unhappy about if that is what you want. 

I was pretty much that way except for getting a RH bat (and bullpen arm). Even at the trade deadline last year a RH bat was on the list of needs and that was with us having O'Neill. Without him makes it even more imperative. 

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

I was pretty much that way except for getting a RH bat (and bullpen arm). Even at the trade deadline last year a RH bat was on the list of needs and that was with us having O'Neill. Without him makes it even more imperative. 

We are basically pinning all our RHB hopes on Campbell and the return of Story and Casas, who has pretty good splits vs LHPs. We will need Ref to keep bashing lefties, too.

I'm not so down on our offense as some seem to be. I'm hopeful Story can help improve the D more than be our RHB savior.

I see more reason for optimism, than last year, but it could have been better.

[Larry Cook]

12 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They should really sign David Robertson.  If he signs elsewhere for a 1 year reasonable deal, it'll be more proof that they're still just being cheap.

Or bring back pivetta in a one year deal? 

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Or bring back pivetta in a one year deal? 

As our closer?

(Or make Gio the closer?)

[jdc69]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We are basically pinning all our RHB hopes on Campbell and the return of Story and Casas, who has pretty good splits vs LHPs. We will need Ref to keep bashing lefties, too.

I'm not so down on our offense as some seem to be. I'm hopeful Story can help improve the D more than be our RHB savior.

I see more reason for optimism, than last year, but it could have been better.

Better but will we make the playoffs. Got to make the playoffs. 

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, jdc69 said:

Better but will we make the playoffs. Got to make the playoffs. 

If I had to bet, I think I would say yes, due to the  fact that I did not see the teams better than us improve or improve by more than we did. It's close, and it shouldn't have had to be this close.

I always think the team with better pitching has a chance. I hope our O and D can do well enough to get us there. I think the O can. The D still needs help- mostly via health.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Forums are platforms to vent, and give opinions, but I don't mind being told to shut up once in awhile for ragging too much.

However, I think I speak for all Red Sox fans who are just tired of being told lies by those in charge of our favorite team (btw: the sox I wear are not red nor blue, just independent old man gray).

If the front office is not going to spend on top talent, that's not ok, but we live to accept it -- just don't dishonor our loyalty with empty promises from those in charge. Cohen in NY made news for "being honest" -- why does that have to be refreshing?

As a diehard, I'm always looking forward to watching young, new players break in, and to see if they can make an impact. If they become stars, welcome them as faces of the franchise with extensions -- don't lowball them with offers always below their market values... that's how you lose a Mookie Betts.

If the plan is to focus on Campbell and Anthony and others this Spring -- and one or two of them tears it up in the Grapefruit League, great. Just don't insult our intelligence at the end of March by saying they need more seasoning when you send them back to the minors. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

If I had to bet, I think I would say yes, due to the  fact that I did not see the teams better than us improve or improve by more than we did. It's close, and it shouldn't have had to be this close.

I always think the team with better pitching has a chance. I hope our O and D can do well enough to get us there. I think the O can. The D still needs help- mostly via health.

I'm concerned about our offense for 3 reasons:

1) The horrible finish to 2024 - averaging about 3 runs a game for the last 6 weeks.  Some of that was Devers being hurt, obviously, but it could have been more - maybe pitchers had figured out how to attack our weaknesses. 

2) Losing O'Neill, our third best hitter in 2024, and replacing him with J. Diddlesquat.

3) How did Devers's inflamed shoulders heal? 

As I've been saying the big hope is the kids, and it sure looks like they're going to count on them.

   

[mvp 78]

Well, it could be worse, at least our owner isn't out in public pining for a salary cap like billionaire/WEF/Carlyle Group David Rubenstein. O's fans deserve it though. 

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm concerned about our offense for 3 reasons:

1) The horrible finish to 2024 - averaging about 3 runs a game for the last 6 weeks.  Some of that was Devers being hurt, obviously, but it could have been more - maybe pitchers had figured out how to attack our weaknesses. 

2) Losing O'Neill, our third best hitter in 2024, and replacing him with J. Diddlesquat.

3) How did Devers's inflamed shoulders heal? 

As I've been saying the big hope is the kids, and it sure looks like they're going to count on them.

   

Those are three very legitimate concerns, and there are others, too. I'm not trying to lessen the importance of these concerns, since I worry about these things, too.

1. I'm not big on thinking a player or team's most recent production level is who they are and will be, going forward. We have dropped off, late in the season a couple years in a row, so it does make you think about why that happens.

2. Losing O'Neill is a big one, but he did miss about 50 games and was just 5th on the team in PAs w 473. We are also losing more than 473 PAs from these guys: 278 Dom Smith (.706) 223 E Valdez (.633) 158 McGuire (.575) 96 Jansen (.623) 93 Dalbec (.410) and 75 Cooper (.455) This is about double the PAs lost by O'Neill. While there is no certainty Narvaez and other back-up catchers will outhit McGuire and Jansen's 2024 numbers, the bar is pretty damn low. Replacing Smith/Dalbec/Cooper with more PAs from Casas could easily make up for the loss of O'Neill, all by itself. (Casas has good splits vs LHPs, too.) The 2B offense was putrid, until DHam and Romy started playing more often, Replacing EValdez on O and D should be a big boost. If Grissom hits .465, again, he won't get the 114 PAs he got in 2024. Replacing O'Neill's PAs will likely come from more OF PAs from Rafaela, which is not very promising, offensively. We could see a 200 point drop, there. The only current other hopes we have are more OF PAs from Refsnyder vs LHPs or Anthony and Campbell.

3. I'm not sure about Devers and his shoulder. I hope the docs got it right with no surgery. We can't afford losing him, or having him play hurt, again. I guess Campbell could play 3B, but there is no replacing Devers' bat.

Another big question is SS, particularly Story's health and how well he may do on offense. It's been a long time since he was a force on O, and we could use a power bat from the right side. It's not likely Wong will keep hitting this well, although he is trying to put on weight. 

We need to rely on the younger players (Duran, DHam, Abreu, Rafaela, Grissom and others) to do well or improve. A healthy Yoshida could help, too. We have about as many question marks as everyday players on the 40 and off the 40, but we do have a lot of depth and choices, if someone gets hurt or falters. (Guys like Devers and Casas are not easily replaced by the in system depth we have.)

Devers, Casas, Duran

Story, Abreu, Rafaela

Wong, Yoshida/Refsnyder and the 3-headed 2Bmen: DHam/Romy/Grissom

Campbell, Anthony and Mayer

That's 15 players of 9 slots, plus these 3 for catcher depth:

Narvaez, Sabol & Zavala

 

[Bellhorn04]

I'm so cynical now that I'm almost hoping for the Jays to make a couple more signings that vault them past us in the projections, just to embarrass our leaders some more.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm so cynical now that I'm almost hoping for the Jays to make a couple more signings that vault them past us in the projections, just to embarrass our leaders some more.

They already have a budget projected to be higher than ours.

Sad.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm so cynical now that I'm almost hoping for the Jays to make a couple more signings that vault them past us in the projections, just to embarrass our leaders some more.

Over the last 13 years, there's been a 46% chance they'll end up in last damn place. I don't think they can be embarrassed. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

They already have a budget projected to be higher than ours.

Sad.

Trading Casas for Vlad any day now...

[mvp 78]

I mean, who could possibly disagree with this!

 

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I mean, who could possibly disagree with this!

 

To "added Chapman" they forgot to add "but lost Jansen and Martin."