Trades?

[Hugh2]

Assuming Story is healthy, you'd have Story, Mayer, Bichette, Casas and Devers for 4 IF spots. That's probably the bigger issue at play.

 

Not that that is not an issue but could one of them move to LF and bite the bullet on Yoshida by either paying him to play elsewhere or just an expensive bench bat. You could also rotate all those guys in with the DH too.

[notin]

Not that that is not an issue but could one of them move to LF and bite the bullet on Yoshida by either paying him to play elsewhere or just an expensive bench bat. You could also rotate all those guys in with the DH too.

 

 

Or keep Mayer in the minors until Bichette reaches free agency in a year.

 

Of course there is still that Grissom fellow…

[Larry Cook]

With the emergence of Hamilton, we are starting to have a logjam of middle infielders for 2025 especially when you consider players in Worcester and Portland and on the DL

[Randy Red Sox]

I think the Jays would take 4 years of Abreu for 1 of Bichette and save millions of dollars in 2025.

 

no they don't have John Henry for an owner

[Randy Red Sox]

Abreu is a much better hitter than Bichette this season too.

 

so fly that deal past the Jays and i am sure they will seriously consider it -LMFAO

[moonslav59]

no they don't have John Henry for an owner

 

Then why are they shopping Vlad and Bichette?

[Randy Red Sox]

Then why are they shopping Vlad and Bichette?

 

for returns FAR greater than Abreu and actually Ross Atkins { Blue Jays GM} said 2-3 days ago they are NOT considering trading those 2

[moonslav59]

for returns FAR greater than Abreu and actually Ross Atkins { Blue Jays GM} said 2-3 days ago they are NOT considering trading those 2

 

Famous last words, but maybe the extend them both.

 

We may see HOU dump Verlander and maybe even Bregman.

 

[mvp 78]

Not that that is not an issue but could one of them move to LF and bite the bullet on Yoshida by either paying him to play elsewhere or just an expensive bench bat. You could also rotate all those guys in with the DH too.

 

Move to LF and you have Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Anthony with two of them on the bench.

[mvp 78]

Or keep Mayer in the minors until Bichette reaches free agency in a year.

 

Of course there is still that Grissom fellow…

 

Grissom is expendable. He needs to produce before he's really earned a spot.

[mvp 78]

With the emergence of Hamilton, we are starting to have a logjam of middle infielders for 2025 especially when you consider players in Worcester and Portland and on the DL

 

Hamilton is a bench guy.

[mvp 78]

for returns FAR greater than Abreu and actually Ross Atkins { Blue Jays GM} said 2-3 days ago they are NOT considering trading those 2

 

Abreu is a 131 wRC+ hitter with 2.7 bWAR in 81 games. Jays would control him through 2029. You are really understating his value.

[moonslav59]

Abreu is a 131 wRC+ hitter with 2.7 bWAR in 81 games. Jays would control him through 2029. You are really understating his value.

 

He's a decent fielder, too, with a chance to get even better, despite turning 25, soon.

 

5 more years of control, at reasonable contractual costs is not something to think lightly about, under the current budget situation we have.

 

I agree that Hamilton is just a bench guy, as of now, but his sample size is starting to get large enough, where I'm expecting him to hit well. Maybe pitchers will find a weak point, and he will not be able to adjust. His defense is not good, and that might be too kind on that.

 

I also agree that Grissom has not earned the starting 2B job, and the way DHam is playing, maybe not even the back-up 2B/SS job, either. He needs to start proving himself.

 

I'm not counting on Yoshida for anything, but I'm not at or near the DFA him point. If he can DH with Ref, and we can still find ways to play Ref, even vs RHPs, until he stops hitting them, fine. I do think we are strong and deep in the OF, especially if Anthony comes through, so if we need to trade to upgrade our rotation or middle IF, or even a RHB, trading an OF'er makes some sense.

 

Ideally, we find a taker for Yoshida, even if we pay a hefty chunk of his deal. That gives Ref a a place to play and maybe give some rest to an OF'er or two, every now and then. For 2024, Ref and O'Neill could DH, but both are RHBs.

 

2025 OF

LF: Duran, Refsnyder (Lugo)

CF: Rafaela, Duran, Anthony

RF: Abreu, Refsnyder, Anthony

 

Would the OF look all that bad, if we traded any one of these guys?

[notin]

for returns FAR greater than Abreu and actually Ross Atkins { Blue Jays GM} said 2-3 days ago they are NOT considering trading those 2

 

If they’re not considering trading them, how do we know what they’re expecting in return?

[mvp 78]

In a perfect world, an OF of Anthony, Duran, Rafaela and Abreu would have 2 RHB and 2 LHB. Being overloaded at LHB hurts that rotation a little. This is a little similar to what happened in St Louis and them moving O'Neilll. Either one of these guys will fall back into non-starter production, the Sox will figure out a rotation for all 4 or one of them will be traded.

 

I think Breslow ends up trading a few guys this offseason to clear up spots for the big 3 and others.

[notin]

He's a decent fielder, too, with a chance to get even better, despite turning 25, soon.

 

5 more years of control, at reasonable contractual costs is not something to think lightly about, under the current budget situation we have.

 

I agree that Hamilton is just a bench guy, as of now, but his sample size is starting to get large enough, where I'm expecting him to hit well. Maybe pitchers will find a weak point, and he will not be able to adjust. His defense is not good, and that might be too kind on that.

 

I also agree that Grissom has not earned the starting 2B job, and the way DHam is playing, maybe not even the back-up 2B/SS job, either. He needs to start proving himself.

 

I'm not counting on Yoshida for anything, but I'm not at or near the DFA him point. If he can DH with Ref, and we can still find ways to play Ref, even vs RHPs, until he stops hitting them, fine. I do think we are strong and deep in the OF, especially if Anthony comes through, so if we need to trade to upgrade our rotation or middle IF, or even a RHB, trading an OF'er makes some sense.

 

Ideally, we find a taker for Yoshida, even if we pay a hefty chunk of his deal. That gives Ref a a place to play and maybe give some rest to an OF'er or two, every now and then. For 2024, Ref and O'Neill could DH, but both are RHBs.

 

2025 OF

LF: Duran, Refsnyder (Lugo)

CF: Rafaela, Duran, Anthony

RF: Abreu, Refsnyder, Anthony

 

Would the OF look all that bad, if we traded any one of these guys?

 

Hamilton is on a hot streak. So far, it’s only been 85 PA with a .963 OPS. But don’t forget, only 85 PA ago, his OPS was .563 and he looked like DFA material.

 

As for the OF, assuming the Sox hold on to the one outfielder they extended (Rafaela), it looks like they would be moving a LHH corner OF…

[Hugh2]

Move to LF and you have Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Anthony with two of them on the bench.

 

Wouldn't one of these guys be part of the trade?

[mvp 78]

Wouldn't one of these guys be part of the trade?

 

Most likely!

[moonslav59]

Hamilton is on a hot streak. So far, it’s only been 85 PA with a .963 OPS. But don’t forget, only 85 PA ago, his OPS was .563 and he looked like DFA material.

 

As for the OF, assuming the Sox hold on to the one outfielder they extended (Rafaela), it looks like they would be moving a LHH corner OF…

 

Certainly, it is quite possible DHam will be a career .625-.675 hitter, and with his sub defense, his MLB career might be very short. I get that.

 

However, he has hit pretty well in the minors (.801 in AAA '23) and is an excellent baserunner and base stealer. He also has some pop in his bat, which might help him stick around, longer.

[Maxbialystock]

Hamilton is on a hot streak. So far, it’s only been 85 PA with a .963 OPS. But don’t forget, only 85 PA ago, his OPS was .563 and he looked like DFA material.

 

As for the OF, assuming the Sox hold on to the one outfielder they extended (Rafaela), it looks like they would be moving a LHH corner OF…

 

Right now Hamilton has played exactly the same number of games, 43, as Story played last year. But Hamilton's WAR is +1.4 and his OPS .820. Story's WAR was +0.8 and his OPS .566. Let me be honest and admit I have been as anti-Hamilton as anyone can be. But right now the deal for Story looks as stupid as the one the Yankees made to rip off Jacoby Ellsbury.

 

And, if you throw in--along with Hamilton--the likes of Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Wong, and Casas, it sure looks to me as though the best team for the Sox to make "deals" with is Worcester. And that's not counting the guys still at Portland.

 

John Henry's furor over spending big bucks for players has some legitimacy: Story $22.5M x 6 seasons; Giolito $36M for 2 seasons; Jansen $32M for 2 seasons; Sale $17M for 1 season (with the freaking Braves!) ; Turner $7M for 1 season (also with another team!); Yoshida $18.6M for 5 seasons. And let's not forget the Sox paid Sale 87.5M for 2021-23 when his cumulative WAR was 2.6. They also paid David Price most of $180M for 2016-22, during which his cumulative WAR was 11.2.

[notin]

Right now Hamilton has played exactly the same number of games, 43, as Story played last year. But Hamilton's WAR is +1.4 and his OPS .820. Story's WAR was +0.8 and his OPS .566. Let me be honest and admit I have been as anti-Hamilton as anyone can be. But right now the deal for Story looks as stupid as the one the Yankees made to rip off Jacoby Ellsbury.

 

And, if you throw in--along with Hamilton--the likes of Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Wong, and Casas, it sure looks to me as though the best team for the Sox to make "deals" with is Worcester. And that's not counting the guys still at Portland.

 

John Henry's furor over spending big bucks for players has some legitimacy: Story $22.5M x 6 seasons; Giolito $36M for 2 seasons; Jansen $32M for 2 seasons; Sale $17M for 1 season (with the freaking Braves!) ; Turner $7M for 1 season (also with another team!); Yoshida $18.6M for 5 seasons. And let's not forget the Sox paid Sale 87.5M for 2021-23 when his cumulative WAR was 2.6. They also paid David Price most of $180M for 2016-22, during which his cumulative WAR was 11.2.

 

But free agency isn’t always about production. There is a certain PR aspect to it when ownership sends a message to the fanbase that money will NOT be an obstacle this season. Of course, the reality might be “we will pay $20mill to Player X in hopes that it leads to the fanbase throwing $30mill plus back our way.”

[moonslav59]

Right now Hamilton has played exactly the same number of games, 43, as Story played last year. But Hamilton's WAR is +1.4 and his OPS .820. Story's WAR was +0.8 and his OPS .566. Let me be honest and admit I have been as anti-Hamilton as anyone can be. But right now the deal for Story looks as stupid as the one the Yankees made to rip off Jacoby Ellsbury.

 

And, if you throw in--along with Hamilton--the likes of Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Wong, and Casas, it sure looks to me as though the best team for the Sox to make "deals" with is Worcester. And that's not counting the guys still at Portland.

 

John Henry's furor over spending big bucks for players has some legitimacy: Story $22.5M x 6 seasons; Giolito $36M for 2 seasons; Jansen $32M for 2 seasons; Sale $17M for 1 season (with the freaking Braves!) ; Turner $7M for 1 season (also with another team!); Yoshida $18.6M for 5 seasons. And let's not forget the Sox paid Sale 87.5M for 2021-23 when his cumulative WAR was 2.6. They also paid David Price most of $180M for 2016-22, during which his cumulative WAR was 11.2.

 

It also looks like our worries about depth and ML ready minor league depth were surprisingly wrong.

 

We lost our apparent #1 SP for the full year, Whitlock for almost the full year, and others for starts here and there, yet our rotation, despite recent issues, is still ranked very highly in almost every category.

 

Our pen has seen Jansen struggle, early as well as Martin and his recent IL stint. I Campbell was supposed to be nice depth, and he has yet to do anything good. The pen has been a clear strength.

 

The loss of Casas has hurt, and no good replacement has been found. It took some trial and error (literally and figuratively) to find the middle infield that has not killed us. We went through EValdez I, Reyes, Short, Grissom and a poor start by DHam to finally seem okay with DHam, EValdez II, Westbrook & Romy. Many saw Refsnyder as expendable, last winter. He leads all of our OF in OPS. Rafaela and Abreu have done fine.

 

Even players we have yet to use from the farm have been getting closer and closer to ML ready.

 

The fact that a roster of a lot of Woo North players on it is still at .500 is a testament to out depth. That being said, if we never get healthy, .500 might be where we stay for longer than any of us want, except Randy, who wants us to bottom out, first.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

It also looks like our worries about depth and ML ready minor league depth were surprisingly wrong.

 

We lost our apparent #1 SP for the full year, Whitlock for almost the full year, and others for starts here and there, yet our rotation, despite recent issues, is still ranked very highly in almost every category.

 

Our pen has seen Jansen struggle, early as well as Martin and his recent IL stint. I Campbell was supposed to be nice depth, and he has yet to do anything good. The pen has been a clear strength.

 

The loss of Casas has hurt, and no good replacement has been found. It took some trial and error (literally and figuratively) to find the middle infield that has not killed us. We went through EValdez I, Reyes, Short, Grissom and a poor start by DHam to finally seem okay with DHam, EValdez II, Westbrook & Romy. Many saw Refsnyder as expendable, last winter. He leads all of our OF in OPS. Rafaela and Abreu have done fine.

 

Even players we have yet to use from the farm have been getting closer and closer to ML ready.

 

The fact that a roster of a lot of Woo North players on it is still at .500 is a testament to out depth. That being said, if we never get healthy, .500 might be where we stay for longer than any of us want, except Randy, who wants us to bottom out, first.

 

 

that is twisting my word pal. what I said was the Sox have been hanging around .500 or just below for the 5th straight year now and have never been sellers at the deadline as they keep trying to convince fans like you that they still have a shot at a W/C. They let guys like Xander, JDM, and a few others walk for nothing but low draft picks.

[moonslav59]

that is twisting my word pal. what I said was the Sox have been hanging around .500 or just below for the 5th straight year now and have never been sellers at the deadline as they keep trying to convince fans like you that they still have a shot at a W/C. They let guys like Xander, JDM, and a few others walk for nothing but low draft picks.

 

I thought you said we need to hit rock bottom for any real change to occur.

 

Sorry for mischaracterizing your position.

 

I have been on the sell train every deadline,since 2019, except 2021.

[Larry Cook]

Revised sell list for the 2024 trade deadline:

 

Jansen

O’Neil

Martin (if healthy)

Pivetta

Yoshida (retain large percent of salary)

[Nick]

Good post by Notin on all the failed contracts.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Good post by Notin on all the failed contracts.

 

I'll always root for the players, because succeeding at baseball is so freaking hard.

 

But considering this roster and how far away it has been -- and feels -- from actually contending these past few years...

 

... put it this way, if I agree with Yankee fans that the Red Sox SUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK, it's not those in uniform -- especially the manager and coaches who don't even play anymore...

 

... it's always the Boston front office.

[Old Red]

I thought you said we need to hit rock bottom for any real change to occur.

 

Sorry for mischaracterizing your position.

 

I have been on the sell train every deadline,since 2019, except 2021.

 

Ah yes the favorite pastime on here, on who, and how many the Red Sox can sell off.🤭🙈🤮

[Randy Red Sox]

Revised sell list for the 2024 trade deadline:

 

Jansen

O’Neil

Martin (if healthy)

Pivetta

Yoshida (retain large percent of salary)

 

none of those will bring back much in the way of decent prospects

[Old Red]

none of those will bring back much in the way of decent prospects

 

How about just putting a team together where you don’t have to sell off anyone, and actually do some buying?🙈🤭