Bloom fired

[moonslav59]

I think you can put in Houck as a closer in get similar to Jansen effectiveness. I think you can sign a FA reliever to take Martin's spot and get a lesser arm, but ultimately someone who helps your pen and is better than the other guys you currently have.

 

I assume with longer team control and less chance of age decline factors.

[moonslav59]

Trading two players each on one year deals is not a tear down or a rebuild.

 

No, but it's hard to justify you are not greatly diminishing our 2024 chances.

 

It's easy to say, just replace them with Houck as the closer and a new signee, but the 2024 already has so many question marks, and this would add two more at two positions we seem to be the most secure at for '24.

 

I'm not against the idea, but I just feel like our efforts should be towards lessening the questions and not increasing them.

 

Just my take.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No, but it's hard to justify you are not greatly diminishing our 2024 chances.

 

It's easy to say, just replace them with Houck as the closer and a new signee, but the 2024 already has so many question marks, and this would add two more at two positions we seem to be the most secure at for '24.

 

I'm not against the idea, but I just feel like our efforts should be towards lessening the questions and not increasing them.

 

Just my take.

 

It all depends on whether the "new" direction will actually be new, or just status quo with a different talking head tip-toeing through the tulips.

 

If a new, decisive GM comes in and swaps assets for younger talent -- discernible to even our senile eyeballs -- than my take is the average Red Sox -- so sick of what they've been seeing -- will be on board...

 

... looking forward to legitimate sustainable improvement.

[mvp 78]

No, but it's hard to justify you are not greatly diminishing our 2024 chances.

 

It's easy to say, just replace them with Houck as the closer and a new signee, but the 2024 already has so many question marks, and this would add two more at two positions we seem to be the most secure at for '24.

 

I'm not against the idea, but I just feel like our efforts should be towards lessening the questions and not increasing them.

 

Just my take.

 

Ok, so they aren't question marks for '24, but they are both out the door at the end of the season and the slots will be question marks for '25 which is a year when they should be even better than in '24. I don't think they have a shot at a title in '24. They can be better than 78 wins, but they are still on the outside looking in. Best use of those two guys for the org may be to help the org in a long term manner.

[Bellhorn04]

Ok, so they aren't question marks for '24, but they are both out the door at the end of the season and the slots will be question marks for '25 which is a year when they should be even better than in '24. I don't think they have a shot at a title in '24. They can be better than 78 wins, but they are still on the outside looking in. Best use of those two guys for the org may be to help the org in a long term manner.

 

Look at the crapshootery going in the playoffs right now, though. The Rangers looked like toast for a while, now they're a threat to win it.

 

The objective just has to be to make the playoffs.

[mvp 78]

Look at the crapshootery going in the playoffs right now, though. The Rangers looked like toast for a while, now they're a threat to win it.

 

The objective just has to be to make the playoffs.

 

I'll worry about keeping players around once they show they can actually make a push for staying in playoff contention.

[Hugh2]

Nobody's job is safe. It's not like the Sox are loaded with five-tool stars.

 

Who is even a three-tool tool: Verdugo can catch and throw, mostly hit (despite a season-ending slump)... not much speed or power. Story (catch, run, sometimes hit w power)?

 

We got a lotta dual-tools... or is that duel-tools... eating Square Peg pizza sitting on round stools.

 

Casas - Hit, Power, Arm.

Rafaela - Arm, Speed, Defense.

Devers - Arm, Hit, Power

 

Prospects coming up who could have 3-4 tools plus

 

Mayer

Anthony

 

A couple of prospects much further away but guys who have true 5 tools potential

 

Miguel Bleis

Nazzan Zanatello

 

Last true 5 tool guy we had was Mookie Betts.

[Bellhorn04]

I'll worry about keeping players around once they show they can actually make a push for staying in playoff contention.

 

If they act like the Boston Bleeping Red Sox this offseason and sign a couple of good starters I think we'll all be looking at things differently.

[moonslav59]

It all depends on whether the "new" direction will actually be new, or just status quo with a different talking head tip-toeing through the tulips.

 

If a new, decisive GM comes in and swaps assets for younger talent -- discernible to even our senile eyeballs -- than my take is the average Red Sox -- so sick of what they've been seeing -- will be on board...

 

... looking forward to legitimate sustainable improvement.

 

I think the direction has clearly been towards building a sustainable future. The jury is still out on it being about to work, or not.

 

I don't think that changes, at all.

 

The part that might change is a stronger commitment to being competitive or even highly competitive, right now, as in 2024. The only way that can happen, IMO, is to spend over the first tax line or even more. If we trade prospects for one slot, then we will see be seeing a shift away from the future being the untouchable priority, which it seems to have been since mid 2018.

 

We can try to keep all of our highest and best "younger talent" and still win in 2024, but most likely by spending big, picking correctly and maybe scoring on a non-top prospect trade or two.

 

The next GM has his work cut out for him, but I still think he will have a nice base to start with. If he has the green light to make a bold prospect trade and can spend up to the second tax line, I think we can win in 2024. I would not trade Jansen and Martin, during the winter, if this will be the case. If not, I'm fine with not waiting to the deadline and risk injury or major declines from either one.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Look at the crapshootery going in the playoffs right now, though. The Rangers looked like toast for a while, now they're a threat to win it.

 

The objective just has to be to make the playoffs.

 

I don't necessarily agree. The Astros are always favorites precisely because of their title experience. The Rangers are doing it with postseason vets like Eovaldi and Seager, while the Orioles chose to just roll with all inexperienced young guys -- and they paid for it by not paying for it.

 

The Rays and Jays were done in by sloppy D, which almost makes it ok the Sox didn't squeak in and get exposed on the national stage and laughed right off our TVs.

[moonslav59]

If they act like the Boston Bleeping Red Sox this offseason and sign a couple of good starters I think we'll all be looking at things differently.

 

Me, too.

 

The whole pitching staff will be improved by adding two SP'ers who give us 175+ IP and a sub 3.80 ERA. (Yes, I know there are no guarantees.)

 

I can't stress enough my belief that our pen would be one of the best the Sox have ever had, if we add 3 SP'er who can eat innings effectively:

 

SP1_____

SP2 ____

SP3 Bello

SP4 ____

SP5 Sale/Pivetta

 

Middle Relief: Houck/Crawford/Whitlock (Pivetta)

Set-UP: Winckowski/Schreiber/Bernardino

8/9 RP: Jansen & Martin

[mvp 78]

If they act like the Boston Bleeping Red Sox this offseason and sign a couple of good starters I think we'll all be looking at things differently.

 

Big IF there IMO.

[mvp 78]

I don't necessarily agree. The Astros are always favorites precisely because of their title experience. The Rangers are doing it with postseason vets like Eovaldi and Seager, while the Orioles chose to just roll with all inexperienced young guys -- and they paid for it by not paying for it.

 

The Rays and Jays were done in by sloppy D, which almost makes it ok the Sox didn't squeak in and get exposed on the national stage and laughed right off our TVs.

 

Orioles had back to back seasons where they could have had big trade deadlines, but they chose not to. We'll see if they are able to have a big offseason. I don't know if the owner has the willingness.

[mvp 78]

Me, too.

 

The whole pitching staff will be improved by adding two SP'ers who give us 175+ IP and a sub 3.80 ERA. (Yes, I know there are no guarantees.)

 

I can't stress enough my belief that our pen would be one of the best the Sox have ever had, if we add 3 SP'er who can eat innings effectively:

 

SP1_____

SP2 ____

SP3 Bello

SP4 ____

SP5 Sale/Pivetta

 

Middle Relief: Houck/Crawford/Whitlock (Pivetta)

Set-UP: Winckowski/Schreiber/Bernardino

8/9 RP: Jansen & Martin

 

Every team in the league needs to sign pitching. I just don't believe the Sox can get 3 that are near Bello level.

[Old Red]

Today is the 12 year anniversary of JH showing up at the Felger, and Mazz show saying he wanted to go on the air, because he didn’t like what was being said about him, and the Red Sox. Do you think JH would do that today? I don’t believe so, and like I’ve said many times that the JH of today, is nowhere near the JH back in those days.

[Bellhorn04]

Big IF there IMO.

 

It's the message they're sending. I'm buying it until I see differently.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Today is the 12 year anniversary of JH showing up at the Felger, and Mazz show saying he wanted to go on the air, because he didn’t like what was being said about him, and the Red Sox. Do you think JH would do that today? I don’t believe so, and like I’ve said many times that the JH of today, is nowhere near the JH back in those days.

 

Howard Hughes of MLB: designs and flies a twin-engine around the world in his prime... becomes a total recluse later in life.

[moonslav59]

I don't necessarily agree. The Astros are always favorites precisely because of their title experience. The Rangers are doing it with postseason vets like Eovaldi and Seager, while the Orioles chose to just roll with all inexperienced young guys -- and they paid for it by not paying for it.

 

The Rays and Jays were done in by sloppy D, which almost makes it ok the Sox didn't squeak in and get exposed on the national stage and laughed right off our TVs.

 

Speaking of the Astros: the talk down here is all about "dynasty." Yes, I know... LOL.

 

That being said. this is not pretty damn good, despite the cheating:

7 straight ALCS appearances

3 (maybe 4) WS appearances

2 (maybe 3) MLB Championships

 

All this, while almost constantly losing top players to free agency. (No Betts type trades)

2019 G Cole (15-5 and 144 ERA+ in 2018 w HOU)

2019 Keuchel (CY Young winner, 119 ERA+ from '15-'18 and 4 GG's w HOU)

2019 Morton (29-10 with 123 ERA+ in 2 years w HOU)

2021 Springer (playoff stud, 131 OPS+ and great D in 7 yrs)

2022 Correa (playoff stud, 127 OPS+ and great D in 7 yrs)

2022 Greinke (22-10 and 113 ERA+ in 3 years with HOU)

2023 Verlander -reacquired (165 ERA+ in 6 yrs w HOU before '23)

 

That is some hefty turnover. It sure helped to have 5-6 homegrown SP'ers to take over. Pena at SS. Tucker in CF...

[mvp 78]

It's the message they're sending. I'm buying it until I see differently.

 

I need to see the spending first. I've heard the "top priority" talk about various players in the previous few years. Not all of it has come around.

[moonslav59]

Every team in the league needs to sign pitching. I just don't believe the Sox can get 3 that are near Bello level.

 

It would take massive funding or one major prospect trade plus near massive funding.

 

I'm doubtful we get 2 solid SP'ers, and I'm not talking 2022 Kluber credentials.

 

Getting two would get us very close to where we need to be. They will need to eat 175+ IP, each. (Hopefully 190+) If we end up using Houck in the rotation, but have 2-3 excellent long men in the pen, we can afford to yank him afyer 4.1 or 4.2 IP, often enough.

 

SP1 Nola or Gray

SP2 Yamamoto or Snell

SP3 Bello

SP4 Houck

SP5 Sale/Pivetta

Long men: Crawford, Whitlock, (Pivetta) and Murphy

Set-up: Winckowski, Schreiber, (Bernardino)

8/9: Jansen & Martin

 

This is light years better than 2020, 2021, 2022 or 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

I need to see the spending first. I've heard the "top priority" talk about various players in the previous few years. Not all of it has come around.

 

Skepticism is understandable.

 

But I don't think they fired Bloom because they wanted to maintain the status quo.

[moonslav59]

I need to see the spending first. I've heard the "top priority" talk about various players in the previous few years. Not all of it has come around.

 

I agree. I'm not really all that hopeful or optimistic they will spend big on two.

 

If they do stay cheap, just changing the no top prospect guideline could be enough for 2024 (at the expense of the future.)

 

Trade for Burnes

Sign one big SP like Yamamoto, Nola, Gray, Snell...

 

I'll believe that, only after seeing it, as well.

[moonslav59]

Skepticism is understandable.

 

But I don't think they fired Bloom because they wanted to maintain the status quo.

 

He could easily just be the scapegoat, but I do not think they can keep up this charade much longer. Sox fans are too smart (well, some of them) to fall for this, over and over.

 

It only takes the perception of being competitive and a fun team to watch to keep revenues high, but that needs work to make happen, too.

 

I hope they commit to 2024, but I am putting the odds at less than 50-50, as of now.

[mvp 78]

He could easily just be the scapegoat, but I do not think they can keep up this charade much longer. Sox fans are too smart (well, some of them) to fall for this, over and over.

 

It only takes the perception of being competitive and a fun team to watch to keep revenues high, but that needs work to make happen, too.

 

I hope they commit to 2024, but I am putting the odds at less than 50-50, as of now.

 

I worry about the scapegoating too.

[Bellhorn04]

I worry about the scapegoating too.

 

Why? Wasn't Ben scapegoated too?

[moonslav59]

I worry about the scapegoating too.

 

The heat was turned up on high. This could all just be a furthering of the great sham.

[Bellhorn04]

The heat was turned up on high. This could all just be a furthering of the great sham.

 

LOL what?

[Old Red]

He could easily just be the scapegoat, but I do not think they can keep up this charade much longer. Sox fans are too smart (well, some of them) to fall for this, over and over.

 

It only takes the perception of being competitive and a fun team to watch to keep revenues high, but that needs work to make happen, too.

 

I hope they commit to 2024, but I am putting the odds at less than 50-50, as of now.

 

There was plenty of blame to go around from JH down to the players themselves, but i don’t see Bloom as being any kind of scapegoat. He is far from blameless.🙈

[notin]

Skepticism is understandable.

 

But I don't think they fired Bloom because they wanted to maintain the status quo.

 

They could keep the budget low and hire a guy who actually does something in July/August and it would be not maintaining the status quo…

[notin]

I'm always just first to push the big red button anyway.

 

That’s true. I think somewhere you already called for a fire sale on the 2026 team…