Bloom fired

[moonslav59]

If Bloom spent right up to the amount he was allowed to spend for 2023, I think half the blame for 2023's failure goes to ownership.

 

I'm not making excuses for Bloom's pre-2023 winter spending. I said it was his "make or break" or "legacy" winter, and it was, He failed. No excuses for 2023.

 

He spent too much on some areas and not enough on the rotation. The $10M he did spend was a disaster.

 

I do think it needs to be pointed out that even though he had more money to spend, this winter than maybe the other 3 combined, he had a lot of big holes to fill with some players becoming FAs.

 

AAV needing replacement

22 JD

20 Bogey

17 Nate

7 Vaz

7 Wacha

5 Hill

3 Strahm

2 Plawecki

 

That's over $80M gone from 2022.

 

It's not like he spent $90M upon a solid team with 2-3 guys leaving.

 

18 Yoshida

16 Jansen

11 Turner (counting buyout)

10 Kluber

10 Kike (signed las summer)

8 Martin

7 Duvall

4 Paxton (from 2022 signing)

3 Mondesi (minus Josh Taylor's arb cost)

2 Joely

 

Again, he deserves much of the blame for 2023. He deserved to be fired.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

Very simplistic approach, which many seem to adhere to.

 

I will add that the team did not have a losing record during the actual time, Bloom was GM, but if you want to count the 4-11 record to end 2023, it's understandable.

 

He should have built a winning team by 2023. Maybe 2022, too. I'm not giving him and A or B or even a C for the performance of the big club. I just think an overall "F" is harsh.

 

Okay then I will boost my grade to a D- if anyone really cares. He's gone and we need to move on from him IF JH can actually find a better replacement which is questionable at this point

[moonslav59]

Okay then I will boost my grade to a D- if anyone really cares. He's gone and we need to move on from him IF JH can actually find a better replacement which is questionable at this point

 

I also don't fault his strategy on drafting the best available player and not just take a pitcher, because we need a few.

 

The problem, IMO, is that he should be trading some for better known young pitchers.

 

He did well getting Whitlock on Rule 5.

 

The Winckowski and Gambrell for Beni trade may work out for our staff, but that is not what I hoped for, either. It's not too late for the next guy to pull that trigger.

 

The rest are ...

 

Pivetta, Schreeiber, Bernardino (not a prospects addition)

Monegro

Drohan

Dobbins

ICoffey

Rogers

Penrod

SenaTroye

Hoppe

BBell

Paez

Cepeda

Duffy

Song

 

More quantity than quality, for sure.

Edited October 15, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Epstein A-

DD B+

Ben C+

Bloom C-

 

DD did one hell of a job, despite a tough budget situation he left for the next GM.

 

He was often roasted for "emptying the farm" or "trading away the future," and he certainly traded a boatload of top or once highly ranked prospects, but the hindsight evaluation shows he chose well or with a lot of luck.

 

Here's a look at who he traded, and who he kept:

 

(Top soxprospects ranking)

1. Moncada

3. Margot

3. Espinoza

5. Kopech

6. Beeks

6. Guerra

8. Basabe

10. Dubon

13. L Allen

16. S Anderson

18. C Acosta

19. Buttrey

19. T Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

 

Highest rankings of the ones he kept:

(1. Devers- a Ben addition)

1. Casas

1. Beni

2. Mata

3. Bello

3. Houck

3. Duran

3. Rafaela (current ranking)

3. Groome

4. Dalbec

5. Walter

7. Perales (current ranking)

8. Song

9. Wikelman (current ranking)

9. Aldo Ramirez (Bloom traded for Schwarber)

10. Murphy

10. TWard

12. Bonaci

12. Lugo

16. Crawford

 

Wow! What a lop-sided list!

 

TY DD! We suffered some from the gap between Devers and Casas/Bello, but it was worth it all, and we still have many players on the current roster to be thankful for adding and or keeping.

 

[Old Red]

Very simplistic approach, which many seem to adhere to.

 

I will add that the team did not have a losing record during the actual time, Bloom was GM, but if you want to count the 4-11 record to end 2023, it's understandable.

 

He should have built a winning team by 2023. Maybe 2022, too. I'm not giving him and A or B or even a C for the performance of the big club. I just think an overall "F" is harsh.

 

F is to harsh?. Poor, poor Bloom. INC (INCOMPETENT) will do.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Old Red

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Very simplistic approach, which many seem to adhere to.

 

I will add that the team did not have a losing record during the actual time, Bloom was GM, but if you want to count the 4-11 record to end 2023, it's understandable.

 

He should have built a winning team by 2023. Maybe 2022, too. I'm not giving him and A or B or even a C for the performance of the big club. I just think an overall "F" is harsh.

 

The average fan only cares about won-loss records and the standings. We don't grade on a curve.

 

Prospective home-buyers researching school systems might look at test scores, but pleas from low-performing districts of limited budgets and historical mismanagement will only cause a run in the other direction.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks and Sox in disarray. Yanks say they’re making changes and made none. Sox are about to head into the hot stove without a president of baseball ops for possibly their most important hot stove in 5 years

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yanks and Sox in disarray. Yanks say they’re making changes and made none. Sox are about to head into the hot stove without a president of baseball ops for possibly their most important hot stove in 5 years

 

Cora will quite possibly have more of a say in how the Sox build the roster he has to make work.

 

That has to be a better situation than what Bloom gave him the past couple years.

 

No matter what one's opinion of Cora's performance in the dugout, a guy with his boots on the ground knows more about the needs of his team -- and which players are candidates from other clubs to target to fill those holes.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora will quite possibly have more of a say in how the Sox build the roster he has to make work.

 

That has to be a better situation than what Bloom gave him the past couple years.

 

No matter what one's opinion of Cora's performance in the dugout, a guy with his boots on the ground knows more about the needs of his team -- and which players are candidates from other clubs to target to fill those holes.

 

But frankly, you didn't need to be Alex Cora to see that we needed a starting pitcher or two. When do we get to the point that Cora can actually talk JH into spending in that area again?

 

I guess we'll find out real soon.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But frankly, you didn't need to be Alex Cora to see that we needed a starting pitcher or two. When do we get to the point that Cora can actually talk JH into spending in that area again?

 

I guess we'll find out real soon.

 

... or trading "prospects" for big leaguers. Remember this summer, it was Cora who said something like, "Building up the minors is important, but the majors is what matters most."

[Old Red]

The average fan only cares about won-loss records and the standings. We don't grade on a curve.

 

Prospective home-buyers researching school systems might look at test scores, but pleas from low-performing districts of limited budgets and historical mismanagement will only cause a run in the other direction.

 

That is what I’ve been saying for 2 years now. The WL record in the here, and now, and not what might happen in 2026 is what the age fan thinks about. Not curves, cliffs, or going all in, or not.

[Old Red]

... or trading "prospects" for big leaguers. Remember this summer, it was Cora who said something like, "Building up the minors is important, but the majors is what matters most."

 

It doesn’t matter what the farm rankings is, but what you do, or don’t do in October is what’s most important.

[notin]

Cora will quite possibly have more of a say in how the Sox build the roster he has to make work.

 

That has to be a better situation than what Bloom gave him the past couple years.

 

No matter what one's opinion of Cora's performance in the dugout, a guy with his boots on the ground knows more about the needs of his team -- and which players are candidates from other clubs to target to fill those holes.

 

 

So you’re saying having no Head of Baseball Ops is better than having Bloom in charge?

[notin]

Cora will quite possibly have more of a say in how the Sox build the roster he has to make work.

 

That has to be a better situation than what Bloom gave him the past couple years.

 

No matter what one's opinion of Cora's performance in the dugout, a guy with his boots on the ground knows more about the needs of his team -- and which players are candidates from other clubs to target to fill those holes.

 

First of all, that’s an assumption. And a flawed one. Given that you just made a sweeping generalization, are you saying Bobby Valentine knew how to build a team better than Thro Epstein?

 

And does Cora know how to acquire said players?

 

But really, if Cora was so great at identifying weaknesses on his team, why did he keep playing Kike st SS? And don’t say he has no other options; he kept doing it long after he had a choice…

[Old Red]

So you’re saying having no Head of Baseball Ops is better than having Bloom in charge?

 

That’s what you got out of that? I got ABB. Anybody But Bloom.

[Old Red]

First of all, that’s an assumption. And a flawed one. Given that you just made a sweeping generalization, are you saying Bobby Valentine knew how to build a team better than Thro Epstein?

 

And does Cora know how to acquire said players?

 

But really, if Cora was so great at identifying weaknesses on his team, why did he keep playing Kike st SS? And don’t say he has no other options; he kept doing it long after he had a choice…

 

I think that’s a pretty good assumption to make, and not flawed at all. I believe Cora has already more of a say with Bloom going, and him staying. Cora might not know how to acquire players someone else will do that, but I believe he’ll have a big say in who comes, and goes. Cora did mess up with Kike, but Kike was his boy.

[moonslav59]

But frankly, you didn't need to be Alex Cora to see that we needed a starting pitcher or two. When do we get to the point that Cora can actually talk JH into spending in that area again?

 

I guess we'll find out real soon.

 

And, Cora can talk and suggest all he wants, but if management doesn't decide to change strategies, it won't matter, much.

 

I think 2 major changes will be needed to effect change:

 

1. Spending significantly over the tax line and on the rotation.

2. Allowing top prospects to be traded for pitching, since we don't draft them very often or develop them very well.

 

Maybe Bloom never pushed hard for either of these two things. Maybe he did, and they never allowed it.

 

This needs to change.

[Bellhorn04]

And, Cora can talk and suggest all he wants, but if management doesn't decide to change strategies, it won't matter, much.

 

I think 2 major changes will be needed to effect change:

 

1. Spending significantly over the tax line and on the rotation.

2. Allowing top prospects to be traded for pitching, since we don't draft them very often or develop them very well.

 

Maybe Bloom never pushed hard for either of these two things. Maybe he did, and they never allowed it.

 

This needs to change.

 

Maybe Bloom really thought he was getting 5 years to play with.

[notin]

I think that’s a pretty good assumption to make, and not flawed at all. I believe Cora has already more of a say with Bloom going, and him staying. Cora might not know how to acquire players someone else will do that, but I believe he’ll have a big say in who comes, and goes. Cora did mess up with Kike, but Kike was his boy.

 

It’s pretty flawed.

 

For example, are you 100% certain Cora want involved in 2022 and 2022? I mean for any other reason than you want to blame Bloom for everything?

 

I think he will have a say, but I also think he always did. That doesn’t mean he always got what he asked for. And it also doesn’t mean what he asked for was always realistic…

[Old Red]

Maybe Bloom really thought he was getting 5 years to play with.

 

In Boston?🙈. Not with the results he was having.

[Duran Is The Man]

Maybe Bloom really thought he was getting 5 years to play with.

 

maybe that was the plan, but his ineptitude/dithering was so obvious that JH had to make a move.

[moonslav59]

The average fan only cares about won-loss records and the standings. We don't grade on a curve.

 

 

We do give different grades for English, Math, Science, Social Studies and electives, and yes, many teachers grade on a curve or enter a 50 or 60 in the gradebook, instead of a zero.

 

I understand people grade on differing criteria, but to me an F would be failure in all 3 seasons: 2021, 2022 and 2023, not 2 of 3. To each his own. There were also things that happened beyond his control- like the decline and injuries of inherited vets, some not even post-prime, but I get it: excuses, excuses.

 

My lowest grades might be:

D- MLB roster management and results.

C- on Buget management and what he left the next GM

B- on farm building, which is a highly speculative grade and really should be graded Incomplete.

 

Weight the first line more heavily, and it looks like maybe a D or C-, but that's just me.

 

I'm glad he's gone. He failed on his major roster additions. He failed to add many gems in the rough.

 

IMO, he left a foundation and budget better than he received. The farm looks way better, but we saw how Ben's farm compared to DD'd farm, in hindsight. It doesn't always work out as expected or hoped.

 

I'm not crying "poor, poor Bloom." He failed to produce what most fans expected. Many fans don't care about context or anything else but wins. I get that.

[Bellhorn04]

maybe that was the plan, but his ineptitude/dithering was so obvious that JH had to make a move.

 

It's really hard to say with Henry anymore. Maybe the reason we didn't spend more than $10 mill on the rotation was that Henry didn't want to spend much on it. And when he saw the results he used Bloom as the scapegoat.

[Old Red]

It’s pretty flawed.

 

For example, are you 100% certain Cora want involved in 2022 and 2022? I mean for any other reason than you want to blame Bloom for everything?

 

I think he will have a say, but I also think he always did. That doesn’t mean he always got what he asked for…

1. I’m not a Cora fan, and I’m on record as saying I would have never hired him back in the first place.

 

2. I think Cora is vastly overrated, because of 2018

 

3. I think a clean sweep should be made of baseball ops, and Cora included. I was with you on Kike, and whose idea was it to put Franchy at 1B, and Arroyo in RF? Was it Cora?

[notin]

In Boston?🙈. Not with the results he was having.

 

That’s what you got out of that? I got ABB. Anybody But Bloom.

 

Who is that Anybody right now?

 

World Series starts next week. Ten days later, the off-season begins. And right more Boston has no one in charge and seems to be have created a situation no one wants to work in…

[Old Red]

We do give different grades for English, Math, Science, Social Studies and electives, and yes, many teachers grade on a curve or enter a 50 or 60 in the gradebook, instead of a zero.

 

I understand people grade on differing criteria, but to me an F would be failure in all 3 seasons: 2021, 2022 and 2023, not 2 of 3. To each his own. There were also things that happened beyond his control- like the decline and injuries of inherited vets, some not even post-prime, but I get it: excuses, excuses.

 

My lowest grades might be:

D- MLB roster management and results.

C- on Buget management and what he left the next GM

B- on farm building, which is a highly speculative grade and really should be graded Incomplete.

 

Weight the first line more heavily, and it looks like maybe a D or C-, but that's just me.

 

I'm glad he's gone. He failed on his major roster additions. He failed to add many gems in the rough.

 

IMO, he left a foundation and budget better than he received. The farm looks way better, but we saw how Ben's farm compared to DD'd farm, in hindsight. It doesn't always work out as expected or hoped.

 

I'm not crying "poor, poor Bloom." He failed to produce what most fans expected. Many fans don't care about context or anything else but wins. I get that.

You can have your curve while Bloom is still looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road.

[Old Red]

Who is that Anybody right now?

 

World Series starts next week. Ten days later, the off-season begins. And right more Boston has no one in charge and seems to be have created a situation no one wants to work in…

 

Cora, Eddie, and BOH.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Bloom really thought he was getting 5 years to play with.

 

I thought that about Ben, and I certainly felt Bloom would be back in 2024 just 3 months ago, but I guess it depends on whether we think Bloom could have chosen to trade top prospects for pitching and decided not to, or upper management told him not to or to wait.

 

It sounds like what top brass was mad about was him not trading Sale and others, and not what most fans are mad at Bloom about.

 

If Ben and Bloom has more free reign, they could have traded top prospects and maybe saved their jobs by increasing the win totals, assuming the trades helped.

 

Then, there is the budget thing. Some seem to think Bloom could have talked JH into keeping Betts or demanded a larger winter spending budget, and he was just trying to prove he could build a winner on the cheap out of some sort of bravado thing. I seriously doubt that.

 

Cora or the next GM can suggest, argue, cry or beg all they want, but if some mandates (or whatever you want to call them) don't change, the 2024 win-lost totals probably won't change much either.

 

The next guy is losing Turner, Paxton and Duvall, and replacing all of their value at the cost they had in 2023 will be very difficult. He will also have the Devers extension kick in with no added production expected. If the budget doesn't change, it will be hard to win. If we can't trade a top prospect in a package with a tier 2 prospect or two for a solid SP'er, it will be hard to win more.

[notin]

Cora, Eddie, and BOH.

 

This definitely seems like one of those jobs where getting more people involved will lead to quicker resolution.

 

And what better way to change than to take 3 people who were involved in the last 2 last place finishes and turn them into a committee?

 

Clearly the Sox have been trying to fill a hole; even if they fill it internally, they need one name in charge…

[moonslav59]

You can have your curve while Bloom is still looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road.

 

I'm not grading on a curve.t

 

I'm grading Bloom on his total body of work.

 

I'd hate to be a student in your class:

1 A

3 Bs

8 Cs

18 Fs