Bloom fired

[Elktonnick]

Eddie has been around since the Theo days.

 

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

 

The GM is always the fall guy when he is actually fully in charge. They’re giving the new guy the opportunity to blame Cora of things don’t work out…

 

Well, he's just going to have to deal with it. Dombrowski didn't replace Farrell until Year 3. Bloom re-hired Cora. It's not unprecedented to be working with the same manager as the previous guy.

There is a big difference between the new guy deciding to keep the manager and being hired with the condition that he must keep the manager.

[Bellhorn04]

If we lose, some will certainly blame Cora, but the GM will bear the brunt, again and again.

 

What, you think Henry would never fire Cora? Henry would fire anyone.

[Bellhorn04]

There is a big difference between the new guy deciding to keep the manager and being hired with the condition that he must keep the manager.

 

Well, there isn't any mystery about it. It's not like the new guy is going to be blindsided by the fact that Cora is the manager for 2024.

[moonslav59]

What, you think Henry would never fire Cora? Henry would fire anyone.

 

That's not what I meant, but yes, if we suck, Cora is more likely to be fire (or promoted) than a 1 year GM. I did not word that well.

 

If we lose next year with a big budget, the GM will be blamed by fans, the media and posters, here more than Cora. That is what I meant.

 

Yes, it would be easier to fire or promote Cora than ax a new GM after one season. If we think it's hard finding our 5th GM, imagine looking again, next year. Agreed, that aint happening.

[moonslav59]

Well, there isn't any mystery about it. It's not like the new guy is going to be blindsided by the fact that Cora is the manager for 2024.

 

Plus, despite how many posters here do not like Cora or do not want him back, I think almost every GM or GM to be respects his abilities.

 

It's not like we're forcing the next GM to keep Bobby V.

[Bellhorn04]

Plus, despite how many posters here do not like Cora or do not want him back, I think almost every GM or GM to be respects his abilities.

 

It's not like we're forcing the next GM to keep Bobby V.

 

Yes, exactly.

[moonslav59]

Yes, exactly.

 

Cora is about the farthest reason for our losing as can be.

 

I'd argue we'd have more losses with almost anyone else.

[moonslav59]

I think Henry wants to win but without the payroll nightmares. He HOPED Bloom could pull that off.

 

I fixed that for you.

[notin]

Plus, despite how many posters here do not like Cora or do not want him back, I think almost every GM or GM to be respects his abilities.

 

It's not like we're forcing the next GM to keep Bobby V.

 

It’s not a question about Cora or his abilities. It’s the situation that - before even getting hired - the new guys hands are tied on certain matters…

[notin]

Well, he's just going to have to deal with it. Dombrowski didn't replace Farrell until Year 3. Bloom re-hired Cora. It's not unprecedented to be working with the same manager as the previous guy.

 

But this is being forced to work with the same manager. Did Dombrowski want to fire Farrell but was told not to? Was Bloom forced to re-hire Cora? Or were these both cases of letting the new CBO do his job the way he wanted?

[moonslav59]

Overall Bloom's grade is an F. 3 last place finishes and not a single top pitching prospect speaks volumes

 

You really count 2020 against Bloom?

 

You apply no context beyond where we placed in the ALE standings?

 

To each his own.

 

Considering the massive slash to the budget in 2020 and a slow trickle upwards, afterwards, and the fact that no meaningful prospects joined the team from mid '17 to 2023, I find it hard to agree that a nrea .500 records deserves an F. D, maybe, if you don't count farm building at all.

 

I'd say D for results.

I'd give a C- for the budget left for the next guy and budget handling over 4 tight spending years (3 anyway.)

I'd give him a highly speculative B+ on farm building despite the lack of a top pitching prospect better than Winckowski and Monegro.

 

To me, I'd be fine with an overall D, but D+ or C- (or even a C) might be his final grade, once we see what his prospects and players do, going forward.

[moonslav59]

It’s not a question about Cora or his abilities. It’s the situation that - before even getting hired - the new guys hands are tied on certain matters…

 

I fully understand your point, but I think having a very high quality manager mitigates the "issue" to some extent.

 

I guess they could have told Cora, "We will highly encourage the next GM to keep you as our manager, but no guarantees. If the next GM wants to fire you, we will make a space for you in upper management with a hefty raise. Is that okay with you?"

 

I doubt, he'd say no, but he might have.

 

I'm not saying the situation is not dicey. I'm just saying I think Cora is good enough to want to keep around.

 

They may value him more than the next GM, and maybe they are not wrong for doing so. Maybe they are.

 

I seriously doubt many GM candidates are saying, "No thanks, I want to fire Cora, and you won't let me. Bye-bye."

[Randy Red Sox]

You really count 2020 against Bloom?

 

You apply no context beyond where we placed in the ALE standings?

 

To each his own.

 

Considering the massive slash to the budget in 2020 and a slow trickle upwards, afterwards, and the fact that no meaningful prospects joined the team from mid '17 to 2023, I find it hard to agree that a nrea .500 records deserves an F. D, maybe, if you don't count farm building at all.

 

I'd say D for results.

I'd give a C- for the budget left for the next guy and budget handling over 4 tight spending years (3 anyway.)

I'd give him a highly speculative B+ on farm building despite the lack of a top pitching prospect better than Winckowski and Monegro.

 

To me, I'd be fine with an overall D, but D+ or C- (or even a C) might be his final grade, once we see what his prospects and players do, going forward.

 

I am going to say this for the last time. I blame John Henry for MUCH of Bloom's shortcomings. IMO he tied his hands on any significant spending. On the other hand I think our farm system is somewhat over-rated by some. Yes we do have some pretty good position prospects but we don't have a SINGLE top P prospect. Pitching was our main shortcoming when Bloom arrived and it remains our main shortcoming. THAT is on Bloom.

[moonslav59]

I am going to say this for the last time. I blame John Henry for MUCH of Bloom's shortcomings. IMO he tied his hands on any significant spending. On the other hand I think our farm system is somewhat over-rated by some. Yes we do have some pretty good position prospects but we don't have a SINGLE top P prospect. Pitching was our main shortcoming when Bloom arrived and it remains our main shortcoming. THAT is on Bloom.

 

So, all the good is tossed for an F.

[Randy Red Sox]

So, all the good is tossed for an F.

 

what other grade would you give for 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons??

[notin]

what other grade would you give for 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons??

 

Does a Cherington get an F?

 

In four seasons, he finished last place 3 times and won a World Series title. In fact, he won as many titles as DD. But also - 3 last place finishes in 4 years…

[Bellhorn04]

Epstein A-

DD B+

Ben C+

Bloom C-

[moonslav59]

what other grade would you give for 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons??

 

I don’t count 2020. I see 2021 as a remarkable feat. I see 2022 as Bloom making many good moves but it just not working. 2023: he sucked despite Turner and Duvall.

 

U DET the circumstances handed to him I can’t see an F as being my grade, and that is just on the MLB performance. The other areas are clearly not F’s.

 

I gave the grades I felt were fair.

[moonslav59]

Epstein A-

DD B+

Ben C+

Bloom C-

 

Not bad. We do need to figure that Bloom’s grade still has some open-ended aspects. DDs grade improved due to Houck, Casa, Bello, Crawford and maybe more to come.

 

High end:

 

A Epstein

A- DD

C+ Ben

C Bloom

 

Low end

A-

B+

C-

D

[notin]

Epstein A-

DD B+

Ben C+

Bloom C-

 

I’m ok with that. And during parent-teacher conferences, I would tell Bloom’s parents “he just keeps giving up in the middle of the year.”

[dgalehouse]

I just think a guy hired as head of baseball operations would want the authority to hire whoever he wants as manager. I think that is reasonable. Of course, they can find somebody to take the job regardless. Personally, I don't have a problem keeping Cora as the manager. He has proven that he can win when he has the right players to work with. I don't think too many managers could win with some of the jabronis the Sox have put on the field lately.

[Bellhorn04]

I just think a guy hired as head of baseball operations would want the authority to hire whoever he wants as manager. I think that is reasonable. Of course, they can find somebody to take the job regardless. Personally, I don't have a problem keeping Cora as the manager. He has proven that he can win when he has the right players to work with. I don't think too many managers could win with some of the jabronis the Sox have put on the field lately.

 

We've seen some sub-jabronis - whatever they're called.

[notin]

We've seen some sub-jabronis - whatever they're called.

 

 

Orts

[moonslav59]

I’m ok with that. And during parent-teacher conferences, I would tell Bloom’s parents “he just keeps giving up in the middle of the year.”

 

Or, he leaves some answer choice dots blank due to indecisiveness.

 

I keep telling him no answer is always going to be wrong, so just choose one and go with it.

[Randy Red Sox]

Does a Cherington get an F?

 

In four seasons, he finished last place 3 times and won a World Series title. In fact, he won as many titles as DD. But also - 3 last place finishes in 4 years…

 

I give Cherington a C- as he did win a WS

[notin]

I give Cherington a C- as he did win a WS

 

Cherington and Bloom were both given payroll limitations along with their high payrolls. It’s one thing when you’re told you have to operate on a limited budget; it’s another when you’re told “not only that but the last guy spent it all before you got here.” Both of them were forced to make franchise-altering trades to help bring payroll into check. Remember when Cherington had to trade Marco Scutaro just to squeeze Cody Ross onto the roster? Go back and look at the salaries of those players…

[moonslav59]

Cherington and Bloom were both given payroll limitations along with their high payrolls. It’s one thing when you’re told you have to operate on a limited budget; it’s another when you’re told “not only that but the last guy spent it all before you got here.” Both of them were forced to make franchise-altering trades to help bring payroll into check. Remember when Cherington had to trade Marco Scutaro just to squeeze Cody Ross onto the roster? Go back and look at the salaries of those players…

 

These are facts- not excuses.

 

If Bloom were handed a Little League team, I still think some would blame him for not winning.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are basic facts in a profession driven by Won-Loss Records:

 

If a team loses more than it wins, it is a loser.

 

Finishing in last place -- no matter how many clubs are in the division or how good they are -- is still last place. The last one.

 

A last place loser is a failure. Circumstances that lead to it can vary, but there is no doubt that losing and last place is a season of failure.

 

Every time it happens again, excuses become more inexcusable.

[Bellhorn04]

If Bloom spent right up to the amount he was allowed to spend for 2023, I think half the blame for 2023's failure goes to ownership.

[moonslav59]

There are basic facts in a profession driven by Won-Loss Records:

 

If a team loses more than it wins, it is a loser.

 

Finishing in last place -- no matter how many clubs are in the division or how good they are -- is still last place. The last one.

 

A last place loser is a failure. Circumstances that lead to it can vary, but there is no doubt that losing and last place is a season of failure.

 

Every time it happens again, excuses become more inexcusable.

 

Very simplistic approach, which many seem to adhere to.

 

I will add that the team did not have a losing record during the actual time, Bloom was GM, but if you want to count the 4-11 record to end 2023, it's understandable.

 

He should have built a winning team by 2023. Maybe 2022, too. I'm not giving him and A or B or even a C for the performance of the big club. I just think an overall "F" is harsh.