Bloom fired

[moonslav59]

So much randomness in the game, especially with the ever changing casts of characters.

 

Eovaldi and Whitlock had brilliant years in '21. They were close to useless in '22. And so on.

 

True, and I guess it highlights how much a GM gets praised or bashed based upon that "randomness."

[Bellhorn04]

True, and I guess it highlights how much a GM gets praised or bashed based upon that "randomness."

 

It does, but we also have to deal with the fact that teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are having much longer stretches of competitive teams than us.

[moonslav59]

It does, but we also have to deal with the fact that teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are having much longer stretches of competitive teams than us.

 

Having more quality players allows for a few to have off years, and there is still enough "others" to keep the team competitive.

 

It also helps that they both have a had a pretty steady flow of homegrown players joining the team that could fill in of the "down" players. I know I am beating a dead horse, but that stretch between Devers in 2017 to Bello/Casas with only Houck as being significant is a roster killer- a GM killer, too.

[Old Red]

So much randomness in the game, especially with the ever changing casts of characters.

 

Eovaldi and Whitlock had brilliant years in '21. They were close to useless in '22. And so on.

 

Moving Whitlock to the BP had something to do with that, and then doing it again in 2023.

[moonslav59]

Moving Whitlock to the BP had something to do with that, and then doing it again in 2023.

 

You mean "rotation?"

[Old Red]

You mean "rotation?"

 

Thanks for the correction. Yes.

[notin]

My point was pretty simple, moon.

 

notin keeps referring to DD's 240 million 84 win team.

 

I pointed out that Bloom put together back to back 78 win teams for a total cost of about 460 million, which averages 230 million.

 

Am I right or am I wrong?

 

 

Wrong, or at least incomplete.

 

It’s not just an “84 win team for $240mill”; it was “a $240mill 84 win team with $300mill still committed to 3 oft-injured pitchers.”. And sometimes I talk about the death of minimum wage help available.

 

You don’t think that was a factor in why DD was fired? Or do you think he was fired for being sassy with JH? It’s not like I’m misrepresenting anything; I’m not the one who fired Dombrowski…

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong, or at least incomplete.

 

It’s not just an “84 win team for $240mill”; it was “a $240mill 84 win team with $300mill still committed to 3 oft-injured pitchers.”. And sometimes I talk about the death of minimum wage help available.

 

You don’t think that was a factor in why DD was fired? Or do you think he was fired for being sassy with JH? It’s not like I’m misrepresenting anything; I’m not the one who fired Dombrowski…

 

I have no idea exactly why DD was fired. As many have said, he seemed to do exactly what he was hired to do.

 

Maybe JH is just an impatient, ornery prick.

 

He has fired 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, after all. It's not like DD is a special case.

[moonslav59]

I have no idea exactly why DD was fired. As many have said, he seemed to do exactly what he was hired to do.

 

Maybe JH is just an impatient, ornery prick.

 

He has fired 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, after all. It's not like DD is a special case.

 

I think the friction started when we did not bring back Kimbrell, and maybe the pending Betts departure was just too much for DD to stand for. The fact that no prospects trades were made after the 2018 deadline also makes me think that was not DD'd choice. I think DD saw the writing on the wall, and that management was not going to allow him to do what he wanted to do.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Seriously, how would DD have handled the 2020 budget and demands to cut salary?

[Bellhorn04]

I think the friction started when we did not bring back Kimbrell, and maybe the pending Betts departure was just too much for DD to stand for. The fact that no prospects trades were made after the 2018 deadline also makes me think that was not DD'd choice. I think DD saw the writing on the wall, and that management was not going to allow him to do what he wanted to do.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Seriously, how would DD have handled the 2020 budget and demands to cut salary?

 

The obvious answer seems to be that firing DD and cutting payroll were all part of the same "change in philosophy".

 

Now we seem to need another "change in philosophy".

[moonslav59]

The obvious answer seems to be that firing DD and cutting payroll were all part of the same "change in philosophy".

 

Now we seem to need another "change in philosophy".

 

That could very well be it, but I'm thinking the friction started from DD not wanting to take on the role of "rebuilder." He pushed back, and they knew they needed a change to someone willing to follow "the new plan."

 

Pure speculation on my part, but not mant free-wheeling GMs would be happy with such a sudden change in philosophy, especially one who knew he could find another job, quickly.

[Bellhorn04]

That could very well be it, but I'm thinking the friction started from DD not wanting to take on the role of "rebuilder." He pushed back, and they knew they needed a change to someone willing to follow "the new plan."

 

Pure speculation on my part, but not mant free-wheeling GMs would be happy with such a sudden change in philosophy, especially one who knew he could find another job, quickly.

 

JH would be well aware that DD isn't the right guy for rebuilding. You might call it a case of planned obsolescence. JH absolutely did have visions of being the Rays but richer, the next Dodgers. Bloom seemed to fit the profile of the next Friedman to a T.

[moonslav59]

JH would be well aware that DD isn't the right guy for rebuilding. You might call it a case of planned obsolescence. JH absolutely did have visions of being the Rays but richer, the next Dodgers. Bloom seemed to fit the profile of the next Friedman to a T.

 

Yes, I can certainly see JH thinking DD is not the guy for a rebuild with little spending for 2-3 years. It was likely a mutual awareness.

 

I do think that had DD been okay with trading Betts and cutting salary and not trading prospects for studs, maybe JH thinks differently about it.

 

I think DD verbalized his displeasure with the direction or let it be known in other ways.

 

It's obvious, the move was best for both, under the changing circumstances.

[dgalehouse]

Baseball fans in eight cities are excited and fired up for post season baseball. That certainly includes Philly, where Dombrowski once again has a playoff team. But there is no joy in Beantown , except for discussions about Chico Calzone down in A- Ball and whether BTV will accept a trade of Jerry Jabroni for a " number three" starter. Thanks, Bloom.

[notin]

I have no idea exactly why DD was fired. As many have said, he seemed to do exactly what he was hired to do.

 

Maybe JH is just an impatient, ornery prick.

 

He has fired 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, after all. It's not like DD is a special case.

 

Certainly he is. He was the only one who didn’t have multiple last place finishes on his watch…

[cp176]

Baseball fans in eight cities are excited and fired up for post season baseball. That certainly includes Philly, where Dombrowski once again has a playoff team. But there is no joy in Beantown , except for discussions about Chico Calzone down in A- Ball and whether BTV will accept a trade of Jerry Jabroni for a " number three" starter. Thanks, Bloom.

 

You know what - this is so true. I'm reading about all of the things that Dave Dombrowski would or would not have been able to do and how he was great with a big payroll but couldn't build the farm and how he just traded away so much talent. I truly wish that he was our GM today. My guess is that baseball would still be relevant in Boston right now. Looking at what has happened to this franchise since he left, makes me wonder why any accomplished GM would want this job right now. Turning this program around will be a very very difficult job. They are not just a couple of players be they pitchers or hitters away from being any good.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All we do on forums like this is speculate.

 

No one here knows for sure why Dombrowski was replaced by Bloom, or why Bloom was fired, while everyone else in upper management -- in the front office and the dugout, kept their jobs.

 

The facts we do know are that the Red Sox won titles when people like O'Halloran, Ferreiria, Romero and Cora had a hand in running things -- and did not, with Bloom in charge.

 

To get back to the top, does it make more sense to hire someone who has already been there (like when they targeted Dombro) -- instead of another new guy who shows potential?

 

How long does any fanbase tolerate languishing in last place?

[Bellhorn04]

Certainly he is. He was the only one who didn’t have multiple last place finishes on his watch…

 

The 2019 season, the high payroll, the bad contracts - sure, they probably played into DD getting the boot. But JH's impatience is clearly off the charts.

[Old Red]

All we do on forums like this is speculate.

 

No one here knows for sure why Dombrowski was replaced by Bloom, or why Bloom was fired, while everyone else in upper management -- in the front office and the dugout, kept their jobs.

 

The facts we do know are that the Red Sox won titles when people like O'Halloran, Ferreiria, Romero and Cora had a hand in running things -- and did not, with Bloom in charge.

 

To get back to the top, does it make more sense to hire someone who has already been there (like when they targeted Dombro) -- instead of another new guy who shows potential?

 

How long does any fanbase tolerate languishing in last place?

Henry got rid of the only one who was probably less popular than himself, so now he’s all alone, and the heat is ALL on him. I’m not looking for any big signing for the new person in charge either, and most likely more in-house than not.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The 2019 season, the high payroll, the bad contracts - sure, they probably played into DD getting the boot. But JH's impatience is clearly off the charts.

 

If that is truly the case, then how did Henry tolerate crap teams built by Bloom for so long? Three last place finishes in four years -- in comparison, look at the Mets and all that money spent; it didn't work out, and Cohen blew it all up before one season was over!

 

The answer must be that Bloom was entirely Henry's idea. If true, maybe he tried to give Chaim enough time for the plan to succeed, but when the Moneyball approach continually backfired in the AL East standings, JH couldn't take it anymore and finally said "forget about it..."

[Bellhorn04]

If that is truly the case, then how did Henry tolerate crap teams built by Bloom for so long? Three last place finishes in four years -- in comparison, look at the Mets and all that money spent; it didn't work out, and Cohen blew it all up before one season was over!

 

The answer must be that Bloom was entirely Henry's idea. If true, maybe he tried to give Chaim enough time for the plan to succeed, but when the Moneyball approach continually backfired in the AL East standings, JH couldn't take it anymore and finally said "forget about it..."

 

Exactly, I think.

[Old Red]

If that is truly the case, then how did Henry tolerate crap teams built by Bloom for so long? Three last place finishes in four years -- in comparison, look at the Mets and all that money spent; it didn't work out, and Cohen blew it all up before one season was over!

 

The answer must be that Bloom was entirely Henry's idea. If true, maybe he tried to give Chaim enough time for the plan to succeed, but when the Moneyball approach continually backfired in the AL East standings, JH couldn't take it anymore and finally said "forget about it..."

I don’t know who had the brain fart to hire Bloom, but no one else got interviewed, nor did anyone else get fired along with Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom looked the perfect guy to be the next Andrew Friedman. A guy who takes his "Rays smarts" to a team with a whole lot more money.

[Old Red]

Bloom looked the perfect guy to be the next Andrew Friedman. A guy who takes his "Rays smarts" to a team with a whole lot more money.

 

Rays smarts?🙈

[Bellhorn04]

Rays smarts?

 

Yep. The Rays lead the industry in getting the most for their money. Friedman went to LA and has generally kicked butt.

 

Henry was salivating at getting in on all that. He completely set aside Bloom's lack of experience for the job. As you say he wanted Bloom and had nobody else in mind.

[Old Red]

Yep. The Rays lead the industry in getting the most for their money. Friedman went to LA and has generally kicked butt.

 

Henry was salivating at getting in on all that. He completely set aside Bloom's lack of experience for the job. As you say he wanted Bloom and had nobody else in mind.

Henry got what he deserved, and unfortunately the rest of us went along for the ride. Bloom thought they were underdogs. He turned the Red Sox into a Mickey Mouse operation.

[Hugh2]

I don’t know who had the brain fart to hire Bloom, but no one else got interviewed, nor did anyone else get fired along with Bloom.

 

I’m sure there are lower moves that happen all the time that we don’t hear about it.

 

How often is it reported when the Sox hire a new scout? Or doctor? We dont

[mvp 78]

Yes, I can certainly see JH thinking DD is not the guy for a rebuild with little spending for 2-3 years. It was likely a mutual awareness.

 

I do think that had DD been okay with trading Betts and cutting salary and not trading prospects for studs, maybe JH thinks differently about it.

 

I think DD verbalized his displeasure with the direction or let it be known in other ways.

 

It's obvious, the move was best for both, under the changing circumstances.

 

DD rebuilt the Tigers. He could have done it here if he was told to.

[mvp 78]

You know what - this is so true. I'm reading about all of the things that Dave Dombrowski would or would not have been able to do and how he was great with a big payroll but couldn't build the farm and how he just traded away so much talent. I truly wish that he was our GM today. My guess is that baseball would still be relevant in Boston right now. Looking at what has happened to this franchise since he left, makes me wonder why any accomplished GM would want this job right now. Turning this program around will be a very very difficult job. They are not just a couple of players be they pitchers or hitters away from being any good.

 

Why are they more than a couple of players away?

[Bellhorn04]

Why are they more than a couple of players away?

 

Hard to say.

 

78 wins this year. Add 2 players worth 8 wins, which is easier said than done, and that still only gets you to 86. The rest would have to come from internal improvements, which we're all hoping for, but not really guaranteed.