Bloom fired

[moonslav59]

And when Betts was in town with the Dodgers he said 2 things:

 

1) No $300 million offer was made.

2) If you want to know more about the negotiations, talk to Chaim.

 

It's been crickets from the Red Sox ever since, right?

 

Yes, and we tend to assume being quiet means you have no counter, but this may not be true, since teams are usually mum on these things.

 

There are a few scenarios I laid out where nobody would be technically lying.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and we tend to assume being quiet means you have no counter, but this may not be true, since teams are usually mum on these things.

 

There are a few scenarios I laid out where nobody would be technically lying.

 

Actually in one of those stories you linked the phrasing was that the Red Sox "expressed a willingness to go as high as $300 million", which was something you suggested.

[Bellhorn04]

If the Red Sox did in fact tell Betts their absolute ceiling was $300 million, you could call it a legitimate offer, but you can't say they were being what we usually call "aggressive".

[moonslav59]

I'm not going to read far back in this thread, but I can't believe many people would complain about the trade at all. The trade was fine. The extension was stupid.

 

The Sox farm system fell to 30th because they had some miserable drafts under Ben and Dave, did some IFA shenanigans and traded a bunch of prospects. Hard to have a strong farm system when you do that.

 

Well said. Just because the prospects traded did not perform to expectations, in most cases, and DD kept “all the right prospects” doesn’t mean the farm was good or even decent. The farm infusion basically ended after the Devers call up in 2017, and he was a Ben acquisition… thankfully not traded.

 

As it turned out, several DD prospects have done well, but the long gap between Devers and Houck then a couple more years to Bello and Casas really put the brakes on any ideas of a quick rebuild.

 

Again, I’m not complying. DD did a great job, and just about everything he did was worth the later sacrifices, in my book.

 

I do like a more balanced approach, but that 3 year run at the top of the ALE, including that magical 2018 season may not have happened without going all in.

[mvp 78]

Yes, and we tend to assume being quiet means you have no counter, but this may not be true, since teams are usually mum on these things.

 

There are a few scenarios I laid out where nobody would be technically lying.

 

The Red Sox aren't mum on anything when it comes to trying to cover their ass with PR.

[Bellhorn04]

Lou Merloni works for NESN now, so that might explain why he's been crickets about what Betts said.

[Bellhorn04]

Found this in the Comments section of the article where Peter Abraham talked about Betts and the denial of the $300 million offer:

 

But as Chaim , Sam Kennedy and John Henry would tell you , Chaim would not have been able to do the wonderous things he has done to build a consistently competitive team if they had spent the money on Mookie.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox aren't mum on anything when it comes to trying to cover their ass with PR.

 

That’s what make it look like they are the untruthful or holding back incriminating facts. The same thing happened with Lester and to some extent Bogey.

 

I’m not taking their side, but Betts has said some things that sound different from earlier comments.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s what make it look like they are the untruthful or holding back incriminating facts. The same thing happened with Lester and to some extent Bogey.

 

I’m not taking their side, but Betts has said some things that sound different from earlier comments.

 

But Betts also said "if you want to know all the details, talk to Chaim." To me, those are the words of a man who isn't afraid of the truth coming out.

[mvp 78]

What's the quote where Mookie says he turned 10/300?

[mvp 78]

But Betts also said "if you want to know all the details, talk to Chaim." To me, those are the words of a man who isn't afraid of the truth coming out.

 

I agree.

[moonslav59]

Found this in the Comments section of the article where Peter Abraham talked about Betts and the denial of the $300 million offer:

 

But as Chaim , Sam Kennedy and John Henry would tell you , Chaim would not have been able to do the wonderous things he has done to build a consistently competitive team if they had spent the money on Mookie.

 

The real stab in the back was none of the Betts and Price money was spent for years afterwards. We barely spent the Porcello money in2020. I’m not even sure we did that.

 

When we dumped Crawford by including AGon and Beckett, we spent quite a bit that following winter. The ring in 2013 quieted the fans pretty quickly.

 

No such thing occurred. We are still not at the 2019 budget, despite inflation.

[Bellhorn04]

What's the quote where Mookie says he turned 10/300?

 

“I don’t regret turning down that,” is the actual quote. It's unclear what the exact question was, though.

[moonslav59]

“I don’t regret turning down that,” is the actual quote. It's unclear what the exact question was, though.

 

Didn’t he also say, at one time, “They never made me an offer?”

[Bellhorn04]

Didn’t he also say, at one time, “They never made me an offer?”

 

Not sure what you mean.

 

There was the story about him turning down the $200 million offer after discussing it with his mother...

[notin]

But Betts also said "if you want to know all the details, talk to Chaim." To me, those are the words of a man who isn't afraid of the truth coming out.

 

But by the time Bloom got hired, it was too late. The Sox leverage with Betts did drop with every passing season. You rarely if ever see a player of Betts’ caliber sign with one year to go.

 

For comparison, Cashman went public with his initial offer to Judge which was 7 years $30.5mill because he wanted it known he was trying. That offer was roughly the same AAV as the alleged Betts’ offer but 3 years shorter, which makes sense since Judge was older (and had not yet hit an AL record for home runs). Was that offer so crazy for their generational talent? Similar AAV, better years, but Cashman was confident enough in its market value to go public…

[Bellhorn04]

Here are some quotes from Betts's interview with Rob Bradford which took place in 2022. No actual dollar amounts were mentioned. Note that this was clearly about negotiations that took place after Bloom took over.

 

"They had things they needed to take care of," Betts told WEEI's Rob Bradford. "They were in a situation where they had to do what's best for them. You can't really be mad at somebody for having to do what's best for them, especially when you have to do what's best for you. There's definitely no hatred there. Chaim (Bloom) did a great job kind of talking and being upfront and honest and made the whole process smooth. It sucks, but that's part of it."

 

Betts added: "There was an offer that was put out there, and we just declined, and we felt, I just wanted to get my value, man. That's all. Just like any person that lives, they want to get their value, what they're worth. That's pretty much all that that it was. Just the numbers didn't align, which is normal. It's all normal things. We just had to go our separate ways. Just like anything else, there was a lot of talk where I didn't want to stay, or this, that, and the other. That's false. It's just business. It is what it is. There's nothing you can do about it now, though."

[Bellhorn04]

But by the time Bloom got hired, it was too late. The Sox leverage with Betts did drop with every passing season. You rarely if ever see a player of Betts’ caliber sign with one year to go.

 

Players of Betts's caliber and age make up a pretty small set.

[moonslav59]

Not sure what you mean.

 

There was the story about him turning down the $200 million offer after discussing it with his mother...

 

I was talking about the $300M offer. I should have said that and not "an offer."

 

My point has been maybe the offered him $295M, or never formally made an offer, but when the floated $300M verbally, and the comeback was $420M, they didn't bother to make an actual offer. Both would make what Betts said the truth, but also mean the Sox were serious about giving him near $300M or actually $300M.

 

This scenario is very plausible, but it does raise the question on why someone from the Sox has never said, "We made a verbal offer of ____, and their request for much more, made us not formally make the offer." How would that hurt their image? This where I tend to agree with you guys that something seems fishy, and with the Sox fishy history, it makes it more believable.

 

I also can't believe the last offer- formal or not- was $200M from the previous year, before his MVP season. That makes no sense, either, but so did the whole Lester mess.

[notin]

Players of Betts's caliber and age make up a pretty small set.

 

Even go a tier lower and who extended after 5 years?

 

Juan Soto turned down a pretty ridiculous offer and he had 2.5 years until free agency…

[Bellhorn04]

Even go a tier lower and who extended after 5 years?

 

Juan Soto turned down a pretty ridiculous offer and he had 2.5 years until free agency…

 

Soto seems like a no-doubter case of "don't want to spend my whole career here".

[moonslav59]

Even go a tier lower and who extended after 5 years?

 

Juan Soto turned down a pretty ridiculous offer and he had 2.5 years until free agency…

 

In hindsight, we were lucky to get Bogey to extend, despite the opt out.

 

We did get Devers to extend before his final arb year.

[Bellhorn04]

In hindsight, we were lucky to get Bogey to extend, despite the opt out.

 

We did get Devers to extend before his final arb year.

 

Devers - there you go - notin was wrong!

[moonslav59]

Devers - there you go - notin was wrong!

 

How could you not think of it?

[Bellhorn04]

Devers nails it.

 

The way the Red Sox approached Devers is the way they should have approached Betts. Not only did they offer Devers true market value, the whole gang including Cora went and visited Devers at his home in the D.R. First class all the way. For some reason not the approach they took with Betts.

[notin]

Soto seems like a no-doubter case of "don't want to spend my whole career here".

 

Based on what? You think he craved more success than he was getting from the organization that got him a World Series ring in his first full season?

[Bellhorn04]

Based on what? You think he craved more success than he was getting from the organization that got him a World Series ring in his first full season?

 

I'm guessing he's a smart guy and saw the future of the franchise wouldn't be so rosy. Or maybe he didn't like Washington. But it sure was one heck of a pile of dough to turn down.

[notin]

Devers - there you go - notin was wrong!

 

Ok. And the Sox had to pay him more than that allegedly offered / floated to Betts. If anything Devers does support it looking like the Sox needed closer to the $420mill to sign Betts.

 

Matt Olson also works but I don’t put him in the same class as Betts either. And Olson looks like an insane bargain right note…

Edited October 9, 2023 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Ok. And the Sox had to pay him more than that allegedly offered / floated to Betts. If anything Devers does support it looking like the Sox needed closer to the $420mill to sign Betts.

 

There were signs of rampant inflation prior to the Devers signing, though, capped by the insane contract Bogaerts got.

[moonslav59]

There were signs of rampant inflation prior to the Devers signing, though, capped by the insane contract Bogaerts got.

 

Yup, and those signs were there for Soto, too.