The Red Sox starting rotation -- long term

[Old Red]

Way to counter my idea with another example of it happening. That’s not how counterexamples work.

 

And maybe Duran has taken steps towards being the CF of the future, so Rafaela can/should(?) be re-purposed. He has the skills.

 

If you want to think Rafaela will be coming to Boston anytime soon, or at all as a SS them by all means go for it, but I don’t see it happening.

[moonslav59]

Still sticking with 24 in A ball?

 

Stork never lets the truth get in the way of trash talk. How many years was he taunting this forum with “Bloom turned down Berrios for Duran” when that “rumor” was started by ME??!?

 

I put him back on ignore- where he belonged all along.

[moonslav59]

Way to counter my idea with another example of it happening. That’s not how counterexamples work.

 

And maybe Duran has taken steps towards being the CF of the future, so Rafaela can/should(?) be re-purposed. He has the skills.

 

Unless we know Story is not coming back, this year, I wouldn't mess with Rafaela's position. Wouldn't it be easier to just find another Chang?

[notin]

Unless we know Story is not coming back, this year, I wouldn't mess with Rafaela's position. Wouldn't it be easier to just find another Chang?

 

No. Unless you DFA someone. Rafaela does have the advantage of already being on the 40 man roster.

 

Changing Rafaela’s position might be advantageous. He’s potentially trade bait off Duran sticks…

Edited June 1, 2023 by notin

[notin]

If you want to think Rafaela will be coming to Boston anytime soon, or at all as a SS them by all means go for it, but I don’t see it happening.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he changed positions, especially if Duran continues to play well. Moving him to SS is certainly easier to see than moving Franchy to 1b…

[Hugh2]

I think Rafaela likely plays a lot of SS at the MLB level because I don’t think he’s going to hit enough to be a starter, so he has more of a chance sticking to a roster as a SS/CF/Pinch runner guy. He has a chance to be more, that’s why he’s highly regarded. But his plate approach is not great.

 

Bringing him up to showcase is not wise, other teams know what he is, bringing him up can only hurt his value. When he shows the bat isn’t ready, teams will be left with a guy whose service clock has started, thus reducing his value. I also don’t think you see him if Story is out longer. I think the Sox would trade for a rental first.

[Hugh2]

If Rafaela is ever a starter it’s as a CFer, if he’s playing SS he’s a utility guy.

[moonslav59]

If Rafaela is ever a starter it’s as a CFer, if he’s playing SS he’s a utility guy.

 

He's good enough on D to be a plus defender at SS.

 

If he hits, he's no utility man.

[Hugh2]

He's good enough on D to be a plus defender at SS.

 

If he hits, he's no utility man.

 

His defense grades better in CF, elite. If he’s not hitting, I don’t know why a team wouldn’t want to maximize his value in CF

[Bellhorn04]

His defense grades better in CF, elite. If he’s not hitting, I don’t know why a team wouldn’t want to maximize his value in CF

 

Outstanding fielders who can't hit are a liability, unfortunately. JBJ comes to mind.

[moonslav59]

His defense grades better in CF, elite. If he’s not hitting, I don’t know why a team wouldn’t want to maximize his value in CF

 

Agreed. I was just saying, if he hits, he can play FT at several positions, including SS. It's a big if.

 

With Mayer in the system, Romero behind him, and Story due back, at some point, I just don't see moving Rafaela to SS, FT.

[moonslav59]

Outstanding fielders who can't hit are a liability, unfortunately. JBJ comes to mind.

 

Sure, when they hit .550.

 

Great CF D can make a .680-.720 hitter a significant plus.

[notin]

He's good enough on D to be a plus defender at SS.

 

If he hits, he's no utility man.

 

Soxprospects agrees with you.

 

” Field: Versatile, standout defender. Has shown the potential to be a plus defender all around the diamond. Best position is center field, but organization has also continued to get him reps at shortstop. ”

Edited June 2, 2023 by notin

[Old Red]

Soxprospects disagrees with you.

 

” Field: Versatile, standout defender. Has shown the potential to be a plus defender all around the diamond. Best position is center field, but organization has also continued to get him reps at shortstop. ”

 

You saying, wishing, and hoping is not going to bring him to Boston as a SS this year. I doubt he even goes to Worcester as the SS. Like his manager said the other day he’s still a work in progress with his bat.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Old Red

[notin]

You saying, wishing, and hoping is not going to bring him to Boston as a SS this year. I doubt he even goes to Worcester as the SS. Like his manager said the other day he’s still a work in progress with his bat.

 

Maybe not. You spent all year last year crying for Whitlock in the closer role and the Sox never accommodated. So are you now arguing if the Sox make or don’t make the move, it’s automatically correct?

 

Fact is, Rafaela is the best shortstop above Mayer in this organization and he’s already on the 40 man. Hit or not, is Rafaela an upgrade over a .660 OPS bottom five defender or not?

[moonslav59]

Fact is, Rafaela is the best shortstop above Mayer in this organization and he’s already on the 40 man. Hit or not, is Rafaela an upgrade over a .660 OPS bottom five defender or not?

 

That is the only real question.

 

Obviously it's not Hamilton.

[Dipre]

But if you bring hin, you're almost certain to ruin him offensively long term.

[Old Red]

Maybe not. You spent all year last year crying for Whitlock in the closer role and the Sox never accommodated. So are you now arguing if the Sox make or don’t make the move, it’s automatically correct?

 

Fact is, Rafaela is the best shortstop above Mayer in this organization and he’s already on the 40 man. Hit or not, is Rafaela an upgrade over a .660 OPS bottom five defender or not?

 

I will agree that RAF may be the best defensive SS outside of Mayer, but he’s still not coming to Boston anytime soon, or if all as a SS.

[Hugh2]

Bringing up Ceddanne now would be a disaster. He'd be a black hole in your lineup, you'd start his service clock too early, and you'd completely stunt his development. He needs to be working on things, he's not ready, if he tries to work on them at the MLB level where he is overwhelmed it's only going to stunt his development.

[Old Red]

Bringing up Ceddanne now would be a disaster. He'd be a black hole in your lineup, you'd start his service clock too early, and you'd completely stunt his development. He needs to be working on things, he's not ready, if he tries to work on them at the MLB level where he is overwhelmed it's only going to stunt his development.

 

Agree 100%, and like his manager said they’ve still got him working on things with the bat. He hasn’t even made Worcester yet.

[Hugh2]

Here's a tid-bit from soxprospects on Ceddanne.

 

"Potential bench utility player. Ceiling of an everyday regular who adds considerable value on defense and also contributes some at the plate. Defensive ability and versatility and speed give him a high floor. Could be a plus defender at every position except catcher and first base. Bat lags behind, but has improved considerably in 2022. Approach is what holds him back now and will determine his ultimate value at the plate. Needs to cut down on chasing pitches out of the zone and improve swing decisions and quality of contact."

 

From what I can remember hearing on some recent soxprospects podcasts is that his approach hasn't really shown any improvement this year. The season is still young, and changing your approach is a lot harder than any of us can imagine.

 

Sometimes you have to accept players for who they are. Rafaela might be nothing more than a speedy utility guy who adds tremendous value all around the diamond. Whatever, you get him for peanuts instead of going out and paying 5-10 million for that guy. But if not rushing him drastically increases the chances that he hits enough to be a solid starting outfielder then I don't want this kids development messed with.

[mvp 78]

Way to counter my idea with another example of it happening. That’s not how counterexamples work.

 

And maybe Duran has taken steps towards being the CF of the future, so Rafaela can/should(?) be re-purposed. He has the skills.

 

This team isn't good enough to worth screwing around with Rafaela's development this year. They need more than one piece to put them over the top.

[mvp 78]

No. Unless you DFA someone. Rafaela does have the advantage of already being on the 40 man roster.

 

Changing Rafaela’s position might be advantageous. He’s potentially trade bait off Duran sticks…

 

I think Duran did a good job increase the chances he gets traded. Good for him.

[mvp 78]

Maybe not. You spent all year last year crying for Whitlock in the closer role and the Sox never accommodated. So are you now arguing if the Sox make or don’t make the move, it’s automatically correct?

 

Fact is, Rafaela is the best shortstop above Mayer in this organization and he’s already on the 40 man. Hit or not, is Rafaela an upgrade over a .660 OPS bottom five defender or not?

 

Fact is, Mayer will probably reach BOS before Rafaela.

[mvp 78]

Here's a tid-bit from soxprospects on Ceddanne.

 

"Potential bench utility player. Ceiling of an everyday regular who adds considerable value on defense and also contributes some at the plate. Defensive ability and versatility and speed give him a high floor. Could be a plus defender at every position except catcher and first base. Bat lags behind, but has improved considerably in 2022. Approach is what holds him back now and will determine his ultimate value at the plate. Needs to cut down on chasing pitches out of the zone and improve swing decisions and quality of contact."

 

From what I can remember hearing on some recent soxprospects podcasts is that his approach hasn't really shown any improvement this year. The season is still young, and changing your approach is a lot harder than any of us can imagine.

 

Sometimes you have to accept players for who they are. Rafaela might be nothing more than a speedy utility guy who adds tremendous value all around the diamond. Whatever, you get him for peanuts instead of going out and paying 5-10 million for that guy. But if not rushing him drastically increases the chances that he hits enough to be a solid starting outfielder then I don't want this kids development messed with.

 

His approach hasn't changed and his power has all but disappeared in 2023. Not what the Sox had hoped for from him.

[Hugh2]

His approach hasn't changed and his power has all but disappeared in 2023. Not what the Sox had hoped for from him.

 

Progress isn't linear, sometimes a guy struggles for a long time and just figures it out. But this is why you don't rush him, let him figure it out in AA, let him get a full season there then let him start next year in AAA. I'm starting to think his MLB career gravitates more toward his floor than his ceiling....but I'm still hopeful and like him as a prospect.

[mvp 78]

Progress isn't linear, sometimes a guy struggles for a long time and just figures it out. But this is why you don't rush him, let him figure it out in AA, let him get a full season there then let him start next year in AAA. I'm starting to think his MLB career gravitates more toward his floor than his ceiling....but I'm still hopeful and like him as a prospect.

 

I think he has a career in MLB too. I just think the best chance for him to have a VERY GOOD career is to let him fully develop in the minors first and not rush him. He's clearly not mastered AA yet.

[moonslav59]

I think he has a career in MLB too. I just think the best chance for him to have a VERY GOOD career is to let him fully develop in the minors first and not rush him. He's clearly not mastered AA yet.

 

Agreed.

 

Even though he is our best defensive SS on the 40 and healthy, does not mean he should be our starting or even back-up SS, right now.

 

Maybe this recent Kike mini-hot streak can continue, and he can (partially?) balance out his awful D with some good O.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How can a big league promotion ruin Rafaela with instant career improvements: better ballparks with better lighting, bigger crowds, first-class travel and hotels, and an increase in daily meal money from $25 to $117 (real restaurants, no more fastfood).

 

Not to mention, a slight raise in wages -- Double A minimum $27K to MLB minimum $720K -- and the groupies... oh.

[Hugh2]

How can a big league promotion ruin Rafaela with instant career improvements: better ballparks with better lighting, bigger crowds, first-class travel and hotels, and an increase in daily meal money from $25 to $117 (real restaurants, no more fastfood).

 

Not to mention, a slight raise in wages -- Double A minimum $27K to MLB minimum $720K -- and the groupies... oh.

 

As a 22 year old guy....he'd probably love all that.