Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[moonslav59]

Maybe. Whitlock's development is the encouraging one - if he can stick as a starter that is a major win. Bello looks like a #2/#3 starter for real.

 

Houck I think is the same as he ever was. Unless he can consistently handle left handed hitters, the impact will always be limited.

 

The remarkable thing is that the pitching staff looks ... (ducking lightning bolt) fine?

 

The pitching staff's stretch of doing well is now longer than the stretch starting the season.

 

ERA

5.14 first 28 games (247 IP)

3.96 last 46 games (407 IP)

 

Another view:

4.97 first 37 games (326 IP)

3.84 last 37 games (328 IP)

 

One more view:

5.20 first 19 games (168)

4.73 next 18 games (158)

4.13 next 18 games (157)

3.58 last 19 games (171)

 

Pretty steady improvement, especially when you consider 2 or our SP'ers were demoted to the pen, and Sale, Whitlock, Houck, Screiber and others have been on the IL after those first 19 games. (Paxton was on the IL to start the year.)

 

[Nick]

The pitching staff's stretch of doing well is now longer than the stretch starting the season.

 

ERA

5.14 first 28 games (247 IP)

3.96 last 46 games (407 IP)

 

Another view:

4.97 first 37 games (326 IP)

3.84 last 37 games (328 IP)

 

One more view:

5.20 first 19 games (168)

4.73 next 18 games (158)

4.13 next 18 games (157)

3.58 last 19 games (171)

 

Pretty steady improvement, especially when you consider 2 or our SP'ers were demoted to the pen, and Sale, Whitlock, Houck, Screiber and others have been on the IL after those first 19 games. (Paxton was on the IL to start the year.)

 

 

Moon, numbers IMPROVED when Kluber (5/21) and Pivetta (5/16) got domoted to the pen. But you know that. We really needed a shower after each one of their starts. I've been defending Bloom but this is on Bloom also.

 

We'll still face ups and downs but now there's some pathway for some of our youngsters to become regular starters. As often said by the Sox management, improvements will not be linear. It will be a zig zag, but always trending upward.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Nick

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Brandon Walter is in consideration to start for the Red Sox tomorrow, sources say. So a couple guys from Triple A in consideration to make their debuts here in Minnesota.

 

David Hamilton is here, but activation depends on the status of Pablo Reyes.

[moonslav59]

Moon, numbers IMPROVED when Kluber (5/21) and Pivetta (5/16) got domoted to the pen. But you know that. We really needed a shower after each one of their starts. I've been defending Bloom but this is on Bloom also.

 

The Kluber and Pivetta demotions did help, a lot, but we also lost Sale, and more recently, Houck, yet the drum keeps beating.

 

It certainly looks like Bloom's idea on building up the depth, first, before adding bigger quality pieces is paying off.

 

Paxton (3.29) was viewed by many as possible mid season depth.

Crawford (3.74) and Wink (2.34) were viewed as 26 man roster bubble players or minor league depth, back in March.

Some felt Schreiber (2.12) and Refsnyder (.800 OPS) were a flash in the pan.

In season additions? Bernardino (2.53), Sherriff (2.70) and Garza (3.46) have more or less held their own or better.

Wong (.761) was supposed to be McGuire's back-up.

Duran (.827) was minor league depth some felt might never get another chance.

EValdez (.684) did pretty well before slumping.

Extreme depth- has done well, too: Reyes (.712), Tapia (.701), Chang (.515 but calming defense.)

 

Now, all the bigger named additions, except Kluber are coming through:

1.066 Duvall (just 76 PAs)

.867 Yoshida

.813 Turner

2.08 Martin

3.04 Jansen (15 saves/ 3 BS 83% blows last year's pen away.)

 

To be fair, the bad...

7.04 Kluber (no longer has a meaningful role)

N/A Mondesi (may no ever play, this year)

4 IP Joely (not looking like he will be helpful)

.644 Kike (technically signed, last summer)

 

[Nick]

The Kluber and Pivetta demotions did help, a lot, but we also lost Sale, and more recently, Houck, yet the drum keeps beating.

 

It certainly looks like Bloom's idea on building up the depth, first, before adding bigger quality pieces is paying off.

 

Paxton (3.29) was viewed by many as possible mid season depth.

Crawford (3.74) and Wink (2.34) were viewed as 26 man roster bubble players or minor league depth, back in March.

Some felt Schreiber (2.12) and Refsnyder (.800 OPS) were a flash in the pan.

In season additions? Bernardino (2.53), Sherriff (2.70) and Garza (3.46) have more or less held their own or better.

Wong (.761) was supposed to be McGuire's back-up.

Duran (.827) was minor league depth some felt might never get another chance.

EValdez (.684) did pretty well before slumping.

Extreme depth- has done well, too: Reyes (.712), Tapia (.701), Chang (.515 but calming defense.)

 

Now, all the bigger named additions, except Kluber are coming through:

1.066 Duvall (just 76 PAs)

.867 Yoshida

.813 Turner

2.08 Martin

3.04 Jansen (15 saves/ 3 BS 83% blows last year's pen away.)

 

To be fair, the bad...

7.04 Kluber (no longer has a meaningful role)

N/A Mondesi (may no ever play, this year)

4 IP Joely (not looking like he will be helpful)

.644 Kike (technically signed, last summer)

 

 

Outfield additions of Yoshida and Duvall along with better play from Verdugo and Duran has really overcome the anticipated reduction at short and second.

Catching has been a surprise also. Casas seems to be hitting stride also. (1B-Another dismal output last year, position wise.) Also having Turner as a DH has been a plus with his club house leadership along with his ability to play both 3B and 1B. As you've said often, JD signing was great for the Sox but his time had come to leave. You can't just be a DH anymore. It helps to spill other position players from time to time. Yoshida has benefitted from DH'ing.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Outfield additions of Yoshida and Duvall along with better play from Verdugo and Duran has really overcome the anticipated reduction at short and second.

Catching has been a surprise also. Casas seems to be hitting stride also. (1B-Another dismal output last year, position wise.) Also having Turner as a DH has been a plus with his club house leadership along with his ability to play both 3B and 1B. As you've said often, JD signing was great for the Sox but his time had come to leave. You can't just be a DH anymore. It helps to spill other position players from time to time. Yoshida has benefitted from DH'ing.

 

The OF has really been a big strength for us. Yes, last year our OF sucked!

 

OF OPS

.676>>.843 (What a massive increase x 3!)

 

SS OPS

.815>>.629

 

2B OPS

.724>>.685

 

Remember, the OF is 3 positions while 2B/SS are two. Then, these improvements:

C: .694>>.739

1B: .683>>.763

DH: .761>>.822

 

One unexpected decline:

3B: .856 >>.772

 

3 declines

6 improvements

 

[sk7326]

The OF has really been a big strength for us. Yes, last year our OF sucked!

 

OF OPS

.676>>.843 (What a massive increase x 3!)

 

SS OPS

.815>>.629

 

2B OPS

.724>>.685

 

Remember, the OF is 3 positions while 2B/SS are two. Then, these improvements:

C: .694>>.739

1B: .683>>.763

DH: .761>>.822

 

One unexpected decline:

3B: .856 >>.772

 

3 declines

6 improvements

 

 

Yeah. The big problem last year was the Sox were getting nothing out of positions that should be high octane offensive ones (1B, outfield corners). There has been improvement on all three, even at first base where Casas is getting on base enough to keep the floor up.

[moonslav59]

Yeah. The big problem last year was the Sox were getting nothing out of positions that should be high octane offensive ones (1B, outfield corners). There has been improvement on all three, even at first base where Casas is getting on base enough to keep the floor up.

 

Indeed.

 

The OF is nearly .200 higher than 2022, and that's 3 positions!

1B +.080

DH +.060

C +.045

 

2B -.0.50

3B -.085

SS -.185

 

I don't think many saw the offense improving this much, especially since none of it has been driven by Devers.

[Nick]

I sure wished we had Schreiber back. I'll blame the offense of 50% of the loss. It's tough to shut down that freebie at 2B. Of course we got shut down.

 

Brasier, Brasier, Brasier, Ort, Ort, Ort....

 

I don't think the pitcher gets charged for the runner on second, right?

 

Also does the pitch count include pitch clock violations?

[illinoisredsox]

I sure wished we had Schreiber back. I'll blame the offense of 50% of the loss. It's tough to shut down that freebie at 2B. Of course we got shut down.

 

Brasier, Brasier, Brasier, Ort, Ort, Ort....

 

I don't think the pitcher gets charged for the runner on second, right?

 

Also does the pitch count include pitch clock violations?

 

Pitcher charged with an unearned run for the guy on second in extras.

[Maxbialystock]

Moon, numbers IMPROVED when Kluber (5/21) and Pivetta (5/16) got domoted to the pen. But you know that. We really needed a shower after each one of their starts. I've been defending Bloom but this is on Bloom also.

 

We'll still face ups and downs but now there's some pathway for some of our youngsters to become regular starters. As often said by the Sox management, improvements will not be linear. It will be a zig zag, but always trending upward.

 

You've oversimplified things. Yes, Kluber and Pivetta needed to go to the bullpen, but back in April they were reasonable choices as starters. Pivetta's WAR last season--33 starts--was 3d best on the team and 2d best among starters. He had 12 quality starts. Kluber used to be great.

 

Sale, on the other hand, was a huge question mark--and started out badly. Paxton was another question mark, having pitched in just 6 games in the last 3 seasons. Houck was expected to be in the bullpen. Indeed, the rant this year was that he couldn't even get through a lineup a second time, let alone three times. Before this season Whitlock was way better as a reliever than as a starter. Bello showed promise last season, but no one expected him to be this good his second year.

[moonslav59]

You've oversimplified things. Yes, Kluber and Pivetta needed to go to the bullpen, but back in April they were reasonable choices as starters. Pivetta's WAR last season--33 starts--was 3d best on the team and 2d best among starters. He had 12 quality starts. Kluber used to be great.

 

Sale, on the other hand, was a huge question mark--and started out badly. Paxton was another question mark, having pitched in just 6 games in the last 3 seasons. Houck was expected to be in the bullpen. Indeed, the rant this year was that he couldn't even get through a lineup a second time, let alone three times. Before this season Whitlock was way better as a reliever than as a starter. Bello showed promise last season, but no one expected him to be this good his second year.

 

I think we knew some pitchers would be out to start the year and others would likely go on the IL during the year, so Bloom went for quantity, thinking 7 is enough, and maybe one or more from our extended depth could rise to fill any needs beyond these 7:

 

Sale

Paxton

Kluber

Whitlock

Pivetta

Bello

Houck

 

Extended depth when looking from the perspective in March:

Crawford

Winckowski

Mata

Walter

Murphy

 

All in all, this group has done okay, except for the bad start to the season. As well as we have done, over the last 4-5 weeks, I'm not sure we can keep this up with Sale, Houck, Kluber and Pivetta out of the rotation.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

I think we knew some pitchers would be out to start the year and others would likely go on the IL during the year, so Bloom went for quantity, thinking 7 is enough, and maybe one or more from our extended depth could rise to fill any needs beyond these 7:

 

Sale

Paxton

Kluber

Whitlock

Pivetta

Bello

Houck

 

Extended depth when looking from the perspective in March:

Crawford

Winckowski

Mata

Walter

Murphy

 

All in all, this group has done okay, except for the bad start to the season. As well as we have done, over the last 4-5 weeks, I'm not sure we can keep this up with Sale, Houck, Kluber and Pivetta out of the rotation.

 

 

I'm getting bad flashbacks to last year, when we were going along good and suddenly our starters began dropping like flies.

[moonslav59]

I'm getting bad flashbacks to last year, when we were going along good and suddenly our starters began dropping like flies.

 

...and then the false hopes they were coming back.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm getting bad flashbacks to last year, when we were going along good and suddenly our starters began dropping like flies.

 

I doubt Sale will get back this year, but I think Houck will--the steel plate seems intended to ensure that--and hopefully in July. Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, and Crawford might not be too bad.

[notin]

I'm getting bad flashbacks to last year, when we were going along good and suddenly our starters began dropping like flies.

 

Any team can get derailed by a rash of SP injuries…

[moonslav59]

Any team can get derailed by a rash of SP injuries…

 

The Astros lost Verlander to free agency over the winter and then McCullers for the whole season. Luis Gracia may miss the whole season (60 day IL) and Jose Urquidy in on the 15 day IL and has already missed 9 of 15 starts.

 

Here are their SP'er numbers:

 

2.27 Framber Valdez 15 GS

3.25 Christian Javier 15 GS

3.78 Hunter Brown 14

3.42 JP France 8

 

4.37 B Bielak 8 and 4.66 R Blanco 3

 

 

[moonslav59]

I doubt Sale will get back this year, but I think Houck will--the steel plate seems intended to ensure that--and hopefully in July. Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, and Crawford might not be too bad.

 

We may need Walter or Murphy to come through for us, until Houck comes back.

 

I'm not sure, if they are considering moving Pivetta back to the rotation.

 

It could work.

[Maxbialystock]

We may need Walter or Murphy to come through for us, until Houck comes back.

 

I'm not sure, if they are considering moving Pivetta back to the rotation.

 

It could work.

 

Agree on all. I think Pivetta's problem is throwing too many fastballs. His breaking stuff isn't half bad.

[notin]

The Astros lost Verlander to free agency over the winter and then McCullers for the whole season. Luis Gracia may miss the whole season (60 day IL) and Jose Urquidy in on the 15 day IL and has already missed 9 of 15 starts.

 

Here are their SP'er numbers:

 

2.27 Framber Valdez 15 GS

3.25 Christian Javier 15 GS

3.78 Hunter Brown 14

3.42 JP France 8

 

4.37 B Bielak 8 and 4.66 R Blanco 3

 

 

 

You do realize the Astros are only 2 1/2 games better than the Red Sox. A difference roughly equal to one series against Oakland…

[moonslav59]

You do realize the Astros are only 2 1/2 games better than the Red Sox. A difference roughly equal to one series against Oakland…

 

Yes, we are close to a team missing 3 of it's top 5 starters. We are missing 2 of our top 7, and 2 others were demoted to the pen.

 

I do think we can pass the Astros, but with 4 of our 7 on the IL or in the pen, it won't be easy.

[mvp 78]

You do realize the Astros are only 2 1/2 games better than the Red Sox. A difference roughly equal to one series against Oakland…

 

It's a shame the Astros get extra series against OAK then.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's a shame the Astros get extra series against OAK then.

 

It's ok, the schedule balances out next year in Vegas, when the Stros, Rangers, Angels and Ms will waste energy staying up more nights gambling and being escorted into other depths of depravity (lucky dogs).

[mvp 78]

It's ok, the schedule balances out next year in Vegas, when the Stros, Rangers, Angels and Ms will waste energy staying up more nights gambling and being escorted into other depths of depravity (lucky dogs).

 

And then they get to play outside in 100 degree heat in the desert at a AAA stadium. Fun!

[Duran Is The Man]

It's ok, the schedule balances out next year in Vegas, when the Stros, Rangers, Angels and Ms will waste energy staying up more nights gambling and being escorted into other depths of depravity (lucky dogs).

 

but they'll still be the "A's". unless they start spending money and actually caring about putting a decent team on the field, they're still going to suck ass. just in a different city.

[notin]

And then they get to play outside in 100 degree heat in the desert at a AAA stadium. Fun!

 

100 degrees on the cool nights!

[notin]

but they'll still be the "A's". unless they start spending money and actually caring about putting a decent team on the field, they're still going to suck ass. just in a different city.

 

Which team has made the postseason more times since 2012 - Oakland or Boston?

[mvp 78]

Which team has made the postseason more times since 2012 - Oakland or Boston?

 

How about since Fischer bought the A's in 05?

 

A's: 7 (number of series wins: 1, championships: 0)

Sox: 9 (number of series wins: 11, championships: 3)

[notin]

How about since Fischer bought the A's in 05?

 

A's: 7 (number of series wins: 1, championships: 0)

Sox: 9 (number of series wins: 11, championships: 3)

 

The point was about Oakland not spending and perennially sucking. They clearly have solid stretches.

 

Their big problem now is they unloaded Chapman, Olson, Murphy, etc. a couple years ago and focused on quantity over quality. All they have to show for that haul is Shea Langeliers and Esteury Ruiz..

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

but they'll still be the "A's". unless they start spending money and actually caring about putting a decent team on the field, they're still going to suck ass. just in a different city.

 

... but in a city where you'd better follow the orders of your true bosses -- unless you want a tracheotomy with a ballpoint pen from Doctor Joe Pesci.