Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

BTV accepted Rafaela and Yorke for 1.5 years of Bieber. Luis Castillo was dealt for four prospects, but only one was ranked (Noevi Marte) at the time. We can assume that Edwin Arroyo became a top 100 prospect the following year was not unanticipated.

 

So is Rafaela and Yorke comparable to that pair?

 

I also think Miami - loaded in the rotation, weak in the OF - makes a good landing spot for Rafaela. BTV gives him comparable value to Jesus Luzardo, Edward Cabrera (currently injured), and Braxton Garrett…

 

The Sox are probably better off trading for an ace. Signing one has never worked out…

 

After once giving away a Cy Young ace reliever in Sparky Lyle -- to the Yankees, no less (for Danny Cater, a singles-hitting first baseman), the Red Sox were the first team in the first free agent winter to sign an ace... in closer Bill Campbell.

 

Then Zimmer burned him out in his first season and the guy was never the same...

[Bellhorn04]

If Crawford turns out to be good, it might be a golden foursome left by DD-Bello, Casas, Crawford and Duran.

[Bellhorn04]

After once giving away a Cy Young ace reliever in Sparky Lyle -- to the Yankees, no less (for Danny Cater, a singles-hitting first baseman), the Red Sox were the first team in the first free agent winter to sign an ace... in closer Bill Campbell.

 

Then Zimmer burned him out in his first season and the guy was never the same...

 

Great moments in Sox history!

[mvp 78]

BTV accepted Rafaela and Yorke for 1.5 years of Bieber. Luis Castillo was dealt for four prospects, but only one was ranked (Noevi Marte) at the time. We can assume that Edwin Arroyo became a top 100 prospect the following year was not unanticipated.

 

So is Rafaela and Yorke comparable to that pair?

 

I also think Miami - loaded in the rotation, weak in the OF - makes a good landing spot for Rafaela. BTV gives him comparable value to Jesus Luzardo, Edward Cabrera (currently injured), and Braxton Garrett…

 

The Sox are probably better off trading for an ace. Signing one has never worked out…

 

I haven't followed Bieber this year, but his K rate is way down and his xERA/xBA/xSLG are all bad. His xFIP is 4.20. Per Statcast, his FB velo has decreased every year since 2019. Underlying injury or just trending in the wrong direction? Is he just one of those guys that can pitch with reduced velo?

[notin]

I haven't followed Bieber this year, but his K rate is way down and his xERA/xBA/xSLG are all bad. His xFIP is 4.20. Per Statcast, his FB velo has decreased every year since 2019. Underlying injury or just trending in the wrong direction? Is he just one of those guys that can pitch with reduced velo?

 

His fastball velocity is down, but he only uses the pitch 33% of the time. So I suppose it doesn’t impact him much. His cutter and slider velocities remain consistent…

[notin]

If Crawford turns out to be good, it might be a golden foursome left by DD-Bello, Casas, Crawford and Duran.

 

Crawford was great last night, but bear in mind the Twins are in a horrible team slump. Not a Kluber-Proof slump, but still, a really bad one…

[Hugh2]

We have each presented opposite views on when it may be best to invest in acquiring an ace.

 

It makes sense to many posters to wait until a team is closer to contention before wasting resources -- and as some allude to -- a pitcher's prime.

 

Other fans that have endured or seen rebuilds over the years also value the impact a top-of-the-rotation starter has on the workload of the entire pitching staff, and even taking some pressure off of the defense and offense.

 

An ace does nothing if the rest of the team isn't also great. Angels literally have two of the best players to play the game in the last couple of decades on both sides of the ball and they've sucked for years with both Trout and Ohtani. This is why I fall into the category of, you acquire a pitcher to finish off a team, not to build a team.

 

I want sustainable success, I want multiple championship runs. I'm a spoiled new england sports fan, but I'm also a patient man. I have zero problems waiting an extra year or two if it means a decade of dominance. Now maybe Bloom is far far far from the man to bring us there.....but the strategy is sound.

 

If I was John Henry.....and I'm not, I'd bring in Ohtani at all costs.

[mvp 78]

Crawford was great last night, but bear in mind the Twins are in a horrible team slump. Not a Kluber-Proof slump, but still, a really bad one…

 

Is there an MLB lineup that is Kluber-proof? When will the DFA bell toll for Corey?

 

Was Corey Kluber the worst Opening Day starter the Sox every put out there?

[Hugh2]

Do the people advocating for trading for an ACE realize how many aces are on next years market?????

[mvp 78]

An ace does nothing if the rest of the team isn't also great. Angels literally have two of the best players to play the game in the last couple of decades on both sides of the ball and they've sucked for years with both Trout and Ohtani. This is why I fall into the category of, you acquire a pitcher to finish off a team, not to build a team.

 

I want sustainable success, I want multiple championship runs. I'm a spoiled new england sports fan, but I'm also a patient man. I have zero problems waiting an extra year or two if it means a decade of dominance. Now maybe Bloom is far far far from the man to bring us there.....but the strategy is sound.

 

If I was John Henry.....and I'm not, I'd bring in Ohtani at all costs.

 

They also blew a lot of money on Rendon and can't develop any talent otherwise because the owner wants immediate gratification on his money.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

An ace does nothing if the rest of the team isn't also great. Angels literally have two of the best players to play the game in the last couple of decades on both sides of the ball and they've sucked for years with both Trout and Ohtani. This is why I fall into the category of, you acquire a pitcher to finish off a team, not to build a team.

 

I want sustainable success, I want multiple championship runs. I'm a spoiled new england sports fan, but I'm also a patient man. I have zero problems waiting an extra year or two if it means a decade of dominance. Now maybe Bloom is far far far from the man to bring us there.....but the strategy is sound.

 

If I was John Henry.....and I'm not, I'd bring in Ohtani at all costs.

 

Your last sentence seems to contradict your first sentence. Then again, maybe these Red Sox are only a few players shy of being great: Brooks Robinson at third base, Mark Belanger at shortstop, and Paul Blair in centerfield...

[notin]

Your last sentence seems to contradict your first sentence. Then again, maybe these Red Sox are only a few players shy of being great: Brooks Robinson at third base, Mark Belanger at shortstop, and Paul Blair in centerfield...

 

I’ll take Devers and Duran over 86yo Brooks Robinson and the late Paul Blair. Kike vs the late Mark Belanger is a toss up…

[Bellhorn04]

Do the people advocating for trading for an ACE realize how many aces are on next years market?????

 

Available for only money! Quite a bit, though...

[Hugh2]

They also blew a lot of money on Rendon and can't develop any talent otherwise because the owner wants immediate gratification on his money.

 

Yes exactly, they couldn't develop talent, so why waste resources, until you see your development machine, is turning out product, then you add to it.

[Hugh2]

Available for only money! Quite a bit, though...

 

Got to spend it somewhere....unless we truly want our beloved Sox to become Tampa North.

[Hugh2]

Your last sentence seems to contradict your first sentence. Then again, maybe these Red Sox are only a few players shy of being great: Brooks Robinson at third base, Mark Belanger at shortstop, and Paul Blair in centerfield...

 

Next year we are one year closer. I see the next wave of talent percolating up 2024/2025. Also, it's my opinion to look at things over a multi-year horizon. If you want to add an ace, maybe it makes more sense to add an ACE in 2025, but the market is better for it in 2024. So you buy in 2024. That's my reasoning, otherwise, I can understand why those two statements seem contradicting.

[cp176]

I’ll take Devers and Duran over 86yo Brooks Robinson and the late Paul Blair. Kike vs the late Mark Belanger is a toss up…

 

I like this.

[Bellhorn04]

Could it be that our development/coaching of young pitchers is finally starting to improve? (Bello, Crawford, Houck, Winckowski, Whitlock)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kike vs the late Mark Belanger is a toss up…

 

... and both are better right now than the phantom Mondesi.

[Hugh2]

Could it be that our development/coaching of young pitchers is finally starting to improve? (Bello, Crawford, Houck, Winckowski, Whitlock)

 

I always thought the reasons for not developing pitchers was multi-faceted, and I think few would disagree.

 

1.) Drafting more hitters than pitchers.

2.) The player development personnel on the pitching side failing young players.

3.) Luck...yes I think it's partially luck. Because at the end of the day, no one can predict or mold how a human being is going to develop with precise precision even if you do everything right.

 

 

The thing is, if it's #1 and #2 more, it's going to take a long time to see the results. Think about it, if you put into place the best pitcher development staff, and the best amateur talent scouts for pitchers alive it would not result in instantaneous results. It would take years to see the fruit of that labor.

 

What we are seeing now is encouraging, but I'm not ready to declare victory yet. How things develop over the next few years will tell us if it's more 1&2 or if this recent trend is more #3.

 

You'd think if it's more 1 and 2 they'd have a pretty good ideal internally, and maybe shift towards spending little bit more draft capital on pitchers. Which to be fair, in terms of numbers they do enough, they're just taking pitchers later in the draft.

[sk7326]

Could it be that our development/coaching of young pitchers is finally starting to improve? (Bello, Crawford, Houck, Winckowski, Whitlock)

 

Maybe. Whitlock's development is the encouraging one - if he can stick as a starter that is a major win. Bello looks like a #2/#3 starter for real.

 

Houck I think is the same as he ever was. Unless he can consistently handle left handed hitters, the impact will always be limited.

 

The remarkable thing is that the pitching staff looks ... (ducking lightning bolt) fine?

[sk7326]

I always thought the reasons for not developing pitchers was multi-faceted, and I think few would disagree.

 

1.) Drafting more hitters than pitchers.

2.) The player development personnel on the pitching side failing young players.

3.) Luck...yes I think it's partially luck. Because at the end of the day, no one can predict or mold how a human being is going to develop with precise precision even if you do everything right.

 

 

The thing is, if it's #1 and #2 more, it's going to take a long time to see the results. Think about it, if you put into place the best pitcher development staff, and the best amateur talent scouts for pitchers alive it would not result in instantaneous results. It would take years to see the fruit of that labor.

 

What we are seeing now is encouraging, but I'm not ready to declare victory yet. How things develop over the next few years will tell us if it's more 1&2 or if this recent trend is more #3.

 

You'd think if it's more 1 and 2 they'd have a pretty good ideal internally, and maybe shift towards spending little bit more draft capital on pitchers. Which to be fair, in terms of numbers they do enough, they're just taking pitchers later in the draft.

 

I think it's probably #1 and #2, though #2 is not so bad. The team has - for the most part -not been in positions to draft high ceiling, lower risk pitching. But no, they have not made their luck too much either.

[notin]

... and both are better right now than the phantom Mondesi.

 

Kike - 15 throwing errors

Mondesi - 0 throwing errors

[notin]

I think it's probably #1 and #2, though #2 is not so bad. The team has - for the most part -not been in positions to draft high ceiling, lower risk pitching. But no, they have not made their luck too much either.

 

I think they simply prioritized hitting over pitching because it’s less risky and the goal here is to bulk up the number of quality prospects.

[mvp 78]

Kike - 15 throwing errors

Mondesi - 0 throwing errors

 

Kiké - can run the bases without being a bitch

Mondesi - can't run the bases without being a bitch

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kike - 15 throwing errors

Mondesi - 0 throwing errors

 

Kike... official on-field E leader, but unofficial off-field clubhouse/dugout leader -- of a winning MLB team -- from bleached head to neon toes.

 

Mondesi... all we are is dust in the wind.

[mvp 78]

Kike... official on-field E leader, but unofficial off-field clubhouse/dugout leader -- of a winning MLB team -- from bleached head to neon toes.

 

Mondesi... all we are is dust in the wind.

 

I believe dust in the wind is the medical condition for his whole skeletal structure. He's the first fully compostable MLBer.

[notin]

I believe dust in the wind is the medical condition for his whole skeletal structure. He's the first fully compostable MLBer.

 

Not Mickey Klutts? The all-time leader for days on the DL/IL and most appropriately named player in MLB history?

[notin]

Kiké - can run the bases without being a bitch

Mondesi - can't run the bases without being a bitch

 

You gotta take the bad with the good…

[moonslav59]

If Crawford turns out to be good, it might be a golden foursome left by DD-Bello, Casas, Crawford and Duran.

 

Indeed. Those 4 are filling some much needed roles on this roster. As much as DD has gotten grief for trading away over 20 prospects that were or once were top 20 prospects, he kept the right ones.

 

Devers, Bello, Casas, Duran and Crawford are better than those 20+ prospects, combined.