Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Bellhorn04]

Why?

 

How many long term starting pitcher contracts have worked out?

 

How many top starting pitchers have never had a long term contract?

[Old Red]

Then why the sudden need to lunge into the Pro-DD rant? Which by the way you’ve also gone over before but on the very short list of things you don’t excuse yourself from repeating.

 

Someone simply mentioned Sale was a mistake by the Sox FO. And he was, just not the current one. All facts. Yes or no?

 

Someone mentioned Sale, but then someone mentioned a bunch of other names. During all the giddy talk when the winning streak was going on like Mookie who, and I don’t hear anyone saying they would rather have DD now I have Always said I would rather have

DD anytime over Bloom, who I said it was a bad hire from day 1, and continue to say it until he is gone.

[Old Red]

Why?

 

How many long term starting pitcher contracts have worked out?

Is doing things the way they are doing them now working out? I’m still waiting for a trade for a young starting pitcher that Moon has talked about for two years now to happen.

[Randy Red Sox]

True but Devers was out of necessity as there would have been a riot on Yawkey way had he been let get away. Story was a terrible signing from day 1 in the same vein as Sale but it was certainly made as the replacement for when Bogaerts left. As for Yoshida it is still early but this looks like a good signing I agree.

To be fair, Bloom has been allowed to put 3 long term, big-money deals on the books-Devers, Story and Yoshida.

 

No starting pitchers on that list though, of course. Hopefully that comes next.

[notin]

Is doing things the way they are doing them now working out? I’m still waiting for a trade for a young starting pitcher that Moon has talked about for two years now to happen.

 

Well, the Sox last few dips into high-priced starting pitching involved signing Price, Sale and Eovaldi to a combined total of 16 seasons and committed approval $430mill to those three. With Sale now on the 60 day Injured List, it is safe to say that through the first 15 of those 16 seasons, only three times did a pitcher reach the incredibly low total of 110 IP. (Price in 2016 and 2018, Eovaldi in 2021).

 

Wacha and Hill each topped that IP total last year for only $12mill. If you want to argue the short term deals are not working, ok. But how did all the long term ones work out any better? And which was has left non-contributing players still on the payroll hamstringing the team from future moves? I’m pretty sure Rich Hill isn’t on the books for $29mill next year…

[Old Red]

Well, the Sox last few dips into high-priced starting pitching involved signing Price, Sale and Eovaldi to a combined total of 16 seasons and committed approval $430mill to those three. With Sale now on the 60 day Injured List, it is safe to say that through the first 15 of those 16 seasons, only three times did a pitcher reach the incredibly low total of 110 IP. (Price in 2016 and 2018, Eovaldi in 2021).

 

Wacha and Hill each topped that IP total last year for only $12mill. If you want to argue the short term deals are not working, ok. But how did all the long term ones work out any better? And which was has left non-contributing players still on the payroll hamstringing the team from future moves? I’m pretty sure Rich Hill isn’t on the books for $29mill next year…

 

Like I said. I’m still waiting for a trade for a young starting pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, the Sox last few dips into high-priced starting pitching involved signing Price, Sale and Eovaldi to a combined total of 16 seasons and committed approval $430mill to those three. With Sale now on the 60 day Injured List, it is safe to say that through the first 15 of those 16 seasons, only three times did a pitcher reach the incredibly low total of 110 IP. (Price in 2016 and 2018, Eovaldi in 2021).

 

Wacha and Hill each topped that IP total last year for only $12mill. If you want to argue the short term deals are not working, ok. But how did all the long term ones work out any better? And which was has left non-contributing players still on the payroll hamstringing the team from future moves? I’m pretty sure Rich Hill isn’t on the books for $29mill next year…

 

Neither the long term deals nor the short term deals have been working, so it's best to stay away from starting pitchers altogether.

[notin]

Neither the long term deals nor the short term deals have been working, so it's best to stay away from starting pitchers altogether.

 

It does leave the Sox with a conundrum.

 

Except for the obvious and oft-repeated fact that the short term deals are easier to clean up. Kluber is awful, but in 4 months, he’ll be hoping for one more chance with another team. Sale has been useless for 4 years now. And is going to get a fifth chance no matter what…

[notin]

Like I said. I’m still waiting for a trade for a young starting pitcher.

 

That would be nice. But right now the Sox have Whitlock, Bello, Houck and Crawford in the rotation. None acquired via trade but not sure why that has to be a thing .

 

Trading for young starters is tough - the Dodgers wouldn’t give one up for Mookie. But the Sox have found a way to get a few.

 

Although I’d rather see Crawford and Houck back in the bullpen…

[Old Red]

That would be nice. But right now the Sox have Whitlock, Bello, Houck and Crawford in the rotation. Trading for young starters is tough - the Dodgers wouldn’t give one up for Mookie. But the Sox have found a way to get a few.

 

Although I’d rather see Crawford and Houck back in the bullpen…

 

Agree on the Kut Man, and Houck.

[Randy Red Sox]

Houck is better suited in the BP. That should be obvious by now. Bello certainly has potential but is far from proven yet. Same with Crawford but this plus another 1 yr deal on a veteran is how the Sox rotation will likely look next year.

That would be nice. But right now the Sox have Whitlock, Bello, Houck and Crawford in the rotation. None acquired via trade but not sure why that has to be a thing .

 

Trading for young starters is tough - the Dodgers wouldn’t give one up for Mookie. But the Sox have found a way to get a few.

 

Although I’d rather see Crawford and Houck back in the bullpen…

[Nick]

Well, the Sox last few dips into high-priced starting pitching involved signing Price, Sale and Eovaldi to a combined total of 16 seasons and committed approval $430mill to those three. With Sale now on the 60 day Injured List, it is safe to say that through the first 15 of those 16 seasons, only three times did a pitcher reach the incredibly low total of 110 IP. (Price in 2016 and 2018, Eovaldi in 2021).

 

Wacha and Hill each topped that IP total last year for only $12mill. If you want to argue the short term deals are not working, ok. But how did all the long term ones work out any better? And which was has left non-contributing players still on the payroll hamstringing the team from future moves? I’m pretty sure Rich Hill isn’t on the books for $29mill next year…

 

I'm good with guys like Whitlock, Bello, Tanner and Crawford. It would be nice to have an ace leading the group but they are hard to come by as we've found out.

 

I'm all about developing young talent and identifying the 'core' group moving forward.

 

Basically you have Devers, Yoshida, Story, Casas, Wong, Duran and maybe Dalbec (he's our until traded) and Valdez. Sooner we find out about Mayer, Yorker, Rafaela the better off the team will be......

 

Funny that there's not much talk of Whitlock being in the pen today.....He's a #3 starter type in my mind with potential to be a #2.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Nick

[Randy Red Sox]

Red Sox home attendance is down just over 1000 fans/game not near enough to get John Henry's attention.

[Nick]

Red Sox home attendance is down just over 1000 fans/game not near enough to get John Henry's attention.

 

How much of that is attributed to crappy weather we've have this spring? They've had some horrendous home weather.

[Old Red]

Evol picked up his 9th win of the season today even though he did give up 4 runs going 6.1 in Tampa.

 

JD also hit his 16th today with 3 RBI to give him 47.

 

Always good to keep up on the boys.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Old Red

[cp176]

There was a lot of talk about this when we made the trade. The trade was great. The extension but us in the ass and more body parts I should not mention.

 

Personally i wish that people would lay off the Sale talk. We had a chance to see him at his best for a short time. Likely we'll never see him like that again. A player with his ability grit and determination gets a pass from me.

[cp176]

Houck is better suited in the BP. That should be obvious by now. Bello certainly has potential but is far from proven yet. Same with Crawford but this plus another 1 yr deal on a veteran is how the Sox rotation will likely look next year.

 

Houck wants to start, the Red sox want him to start and he should start. He is young with a very strong arm.

[Randy Red Sox]

yes generally for twice through the rotation.

Houck wants to start, the Red sox want him to start and he should start. He is young with a very strong arm.

[Randy Red Sox]

teams don't give up good young SP

Like I said. I’m still waiting for a trade for a young starting pitcher.

[Larry Cook]

Houck wants to start, the Red sox want him to start and he should start. He is young with a very strong arm.

 

Houck does not have a dependable 3rd pitch to be a starter!

[dgalehouse]

In my opinion, David Price gets more grief on here than is warranted. In four years with Boston he was 17-9 , 3.99. - 6-3 , 3.38. - 16- 7, 3.56. and 7-5 , 4.28 . The Sox won the division three of those years. Price was a lot better than some of the jabronis the Sox have been running out there the past few years.

[notin]

In my opinion, David Price gets more grief on here than is warranted. In four years with Boston he was 17-9 , 3.99. - 6-3 , 3.38. - 16- 7, 3.56. and 7-5 , 4.28 . The Sox won the division three of those years. Price was a lot better than some of the jabronis the Sox have been running out there the past few years.

 

He was signed to pitch for 7 years, not 4.

 

And in two of those 4 years, he pitched less than 108 innings. He was a bust, which is why Boston had to take less for Betts just to unload him…

Edited June 11, 2023 by notin

[notin]

Personally i wish that people would lay off the Sale talk. We had a chance to see him at his best for a short time. Likely we'll never see him like that again. A player with his ability grit and determination gets a pass from me.

 

Sale is more relevant to this team than Wacha…

[moonslav59]

So … you’re saying the previous front office is NOT responsible for signing Sale?

 

And, it's all Bloom's fault that almost all the vets he inherited saw their number decline or drop off a cliff, too.

 

Don't forget that part.

[moonslav59]

To be fair, Bloom has been allowed to put 3 long term, big-money deals on the books-Devers, Story and Yoshida.

 

No starting pitchers on that list though, of course. Hopefully that comes next.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

The history of big pitcher FA signings is not good. It's not even okay.

[moonslav59]

Well, the Sox last few dips into high-priced starting pitching involved signing Price, Sale and Eovaldi to a combined total of 16 seasons and committed approval $430mill to those three. With Sale now on the 60 day Injured List, it is safe to say that through the first 15 of those 16 seasons, only three times did a pitcher reach the incredibly low total of 110 IP. (Price in 2016 and 2018, Eovaldi in 2021).

 

Wacha and Hill each topped that IP total last year for only $12mill. If you want to argue the short term deals are not working, ok. But how did all the long term ones work out any better? And which was has left non-contributing players still on the payroll hamstringing the team from future moves? I’m pretty sure Rich Hill isn’t on the books for $29mill next year…

 

Go back further and add Lackey, and the results don't improve.

 

Seemingly, big ticket FA pitchers fail more than they are even okay or better.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Be careful what you wish for.

 

The history of big pitcher FA signings is not good. It's not even okay.

 

I know the history very well, moon. There have been some good signings the last couple of years, at this stage at least. There have been some instant busts too, of course. That's to be expected.

 

Bloom's biggest splash on a position player, Story, hasn't turned out great either.

[Old Red]

And, it's all Bloom's fault that almost all the vets he inherited saw their number decline or drop off a cliff, too.

 

Don't forget that part.

 

Oh the poor, poor Bloom defense again that we’ve heard a 1000 times over.

[Bellhorn04]

Go back further and add Lackey, and the results don't improve.

 

Seemingly, big ticket FA pitchers fail more than they are even okay or better.

 

 

What if it's a necessary evil? Without Foulke and Lackey and Price, how many rings?

[moonslav59]

Some of these guys are not starters or shouldn't be, but it seems like it has been a long time since we've had so many promising young or younger pitchers with 3 years or more of team control:

 

24 Bello (pre-arb)

25 Wink (pre-arb)

27 Crawford (pre-arb)

27 Whitlock (signed with options until 2025)

27 Houck (pre-arb)

29 Schreiber (pre-arb)

 

I'll be the first to admit our farm arms have largely been a big disappointment to start the 2023 season.

 

Mata, Walter, Wikelman and Murphy have all taken a step down.

Kelly is on the 60 IL.

I'm not thinking the rises from Drohan, E R-C, Guerrero and others outweigh the down steps.