Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Maxbialystock]

I'm not sure it matters who catches Kluber. I'd have Wong catch Sale again.

 

Ok, you're getting banned for being entirely too sensible.

 

I like Wong, I admit it. But I have to be honest and say we are lucky to have McGuire. And I am fine with however Cora uses the two of them.

[Maxbialystock]

The simple fact is that the Sox team ERA is 5.10, ranked 26th in MLB, mostly because of the rotation.

 

While I think it's entirely possible CERA is real and that Wong makes a difference, I also think the dismal rotation is primarily on the pitchers.

 

And maybe on Cora because I do not understand why Kluber has 4 starts and Crawford has just 2 starts.

 

Crawford was awful on April 3 against the Pirates: 4 innings, 7 ER. Since then, however: 5 IP vs Tigers, 1 ER; 3 IP vs Tampa (best offense in MLB), 1 ER; 6.1 IP vs. Angles, 0 ER; and 2 IP vs. Brewers, 0 ER.

[mvp 78]

The simple fact is that the Sox team ERA is 5.10, ranked 26th in MLB, mostly because of the rotation.

 

While I think it's entirely possible CERA is real and that Wong makes a difference, I also think the dismal rotation is primarily on the pitchers.

 

And maybe on Cora because I do not understand why Kluber has 4 starts and Crawford has just 2 starts.

 

Crawford was awful on April 3 against the Pirates: 4 innings, 7 ER. Since then, however: 5 IP vs Tigers, 1 ER; 3 IP vs Tampa (best offense in MLB), 1 ER; 6.1 IP vs. Angles, 0 th ER; and 2 IP vs. Brewers, 0 ER.

 

BOS:

10th in relief ERA

7th in relief FIP

29th in starters ERA 6.61!

27th in starters FIP

29th in starters fWAR -0.3

[sk7326]

BOS:

10th in relief ERA

7th in relief FIP

29th in starters ERA 6.61!

27th in starters FIP

29th in starters fWAR -0.3

 

Considering what the starters have done, 10th/7th for the bullpen is an excellent result.

 

Seriously - if the team could just get quality innings, this season could actually be something.

[moonslav59]

The one area our SP'ers have not done crappy in is IP.

 

SP IP Leaders:

 

214 SDP

206 PIT

203 BOS

 

#10 HOU 199

#15 COL 197

#20 LAA 194

#25 CWC 189

#30 DET 180

 

[Hugh2]

The one area our SP'ers have not done crappy in is IP.

 

SP IP Leaders:

 

214 SDP

206 PIT

203 BOS

 

#10 HOU 199

#15 COL 197

#20 LAA 194

#25 CWC 189

#30 DET 180

 

 

The past week the whole staff has been #1 in strike outs.

 

The Sox are also #1 in home runs allowed. To me, if they can do a better job to keep the ball in the yard they will get much better.

 

A lot of those home runs came in 1st starts

[moonslav59]

Rotation improvements:

 

Houck:

His ERA has improved with every start:

7.13 after 1

5.03 after 2

4.50 after 3

4.29 after 4 (4.09 last 2)

 

 

Sale:

8.83 first 2 starts

5.40 last 2 (1.50 last 1 start)

 

Whitlock:

9.13 first start

4.91 last 2

 

Pivetta:

7.93 first start

5.52 last 3 (4.76 last start)

 

 

 

Bello

16.88 first start

5.79 last start

 

Kluber:

Not improving

[mvp 78]

The one area our SP'ers have not done crappy in is IP.

 

SP IP Leaders:

 

214 SDP

206 PIT

203 BOS

 

#10 HOU 199

#15 COL 197

#20 LAA 194

#25 CWC 189

#30 DET 180

 

 

Maybe they shouldn't be pitching all of those innings! Pull the plug, Alex!

[Nick]

Bello has been sent down and a lefty reliever called up.

 

No point in having a starter sit on the bench and not be available.

 

Houck has made the cut. No way Sox was going to give up on Kluber. Bloom would ather lose the season than admit he is wromg about Kluber. Lets hope Kluber gets it together or we will lose every fifth day.

[moonslav59]

Bello has been sent down and a lefty reliever called up.

 

No point in having a starter sit on the bench and not be available.

 

Houck has made the cut. No way Sox was going to give up on Kluber. Bloom would ather lose the season than admit he is wromg about Kluber. Lets hope Kluber gets it together or we will lose every fifth day.

 

Kluber would not be any GM's choice to be axed, this early, unless is was for some phantom IL stint.

 

Sending Bello down makes sense, but he will likely be back.

 

I've been strongly in favor of Houck going to the pen, but we cannot afford to move our best SP'er to the pen, and Wink is handling the longman role, well. (Crawford can also do the saame.)

 

I'd go...

 

Sale tonight

Kluber TUE

Houck WED

Off THU

Pivetta FRI v CLE

Whitlock SAT

Sale SUN (+1 day rest)

Kluber MON v TOR (+1) maybe Paxton will be available to piggyback

Houck TUE (+1)

Pivetta WED (4th gm vs TOR)

Then, 3 games @PHI and 3 @ATL before the next day off. Maybe Kluber loses his slot by then (Paxton/Bello/Crawford?)

[Old Red]

Another FOR SALE night last night. Any buyers? He was hit hard all night, and if it wasn’t for the D he would have given up more runs. I think it was pretty much assumed that if Sale was healthy he would be the old Sale. While I think he’ll have good games like he did the start before I also think he’ll be more like he’s been in the other games he’s pitched this year

Kluber who I said at the time he was signed was the cheapest way out to Wacha, or Evol, and so far he’s looked like it although Evol, and Wacha hasn’t looked that good either.

Houck has pitched well enough to stay in the rotation, and with the Kut Man, and Wink being as effective as they’ve been in the pen there is less need to put Houck back there.

Bello hasn’t looked that great, but I don’t see going back to Worcester is any benefit, and he needs to pitch in Boston.

Pivetta is Pivetta good, and bad but takes the mound every turn.

We all knew starting pitching would be the key to a good, or bad season, and so far it has.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

It doesn't take much to bring the boo birds out.

[Old Red]

It doesn't take much to bring the boo birds out.

 

The boo birds were there opening day, which was just a carry over from last year, and actually the boo birds were there before the season even started with the warm reception John H, and Bloom got anywhere they showed their face in public.

[cp176]

It has been an extremely difficult process to watch. From top to bottom I'm afraid there just isn't that much to get excited about. No boo bird here. Just a lifelong fan who finds this whole experimental ride bloom has us on to be kind of sad. Believe me too I am looking for the next real thing but I just don't see that player on the horizon. Reality can be painful I guess.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It has been an extremely difficult process to watch. From top to bottom I'm afraid there just isn't that much to get excited about. No boo bird here. Just a lifelong fan who finds this whole experimental ride bloom has us on to be kind of sad. Believe me too I am looking for the next real thing but I just don't see that player on the horizon. Reality can be painful I guess.

 

Great post. Neither the apologists nor the not-sorryists can post facts to refute your opinions.

 

Marcelo Mayer will be here sooner than anyone expects. Maybe the Red Sox will then choose to "surround him with talent" -- like Bloom promised when they signed Devers -- and invest in legitimate starting pitchers.

 

Meanwhile, a .500 record is reasonable with this year's rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

Houck 4.29

Pivetta 4.58

Whitlock 6.19

Sale 8.22

Kluber 8.50

Bello 9.82

[Bellhorn04]

Great post. Neither the apologists nor the not-sorryists can post facts to refute your opinions.

 

Marcelo Mayer will be here sooner than anyone expects. Maybe the Red Sox will then choose to "surround him with talent" -- like Bloom promised when they signed Devers -- and invest in legitimate starting pitchers.

 

Meanwhile, a .500 record is reasonable with this year's rotation.

 

Right now Bloom's failure to upgrade the rotation really looks like a criminal offense. He actually thought Kluber was going to be the answer.

 

More of Corey tonight.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Right now Bloom's failure to upgrade the rotation really looks like a criminal offense. He actually thought Kluber was going to be the answer.

 

 

But... the answer to which question?

 

Who is going to be cheaper than the multi-year costs of proven Boston winners Eovaldi and Wacha? Who is going to provide upside? Who is going to appease the fanbase, by hitting them upside the head? Who is going to take the heat off Sale, and make him look better by comparison? Who is going to put the heat on Cora, and make it easier to fire him? Who can't even throw hard enough anymore to hurt Nunez, if he swings from the heels?

[notin]

Right now Bloom's failure to upgrade the rotation really looks like a criminal offense. He actually thought Kluber was going to be the answer.

 

More of Corey tonight.

 

I actually do think Sale will improve somewhat. He’ll never be the Pre-2019 Perennial Cy Young Runner Up again, but maybe a serviceable 2.5-3.0 fWAR pitcher is possible. Not sure if he is still dealing with rust and has yet to regain his form yet, but I think he’s shown even the most ardent Noah Song supporter that just trying to step back in after a prolonged hiatus isn’t so easy.

 

As for Kluber, hopefully he just piggybacks Paxton for a while. Or maybe Bello can re-emerge and force his DFA…

[notin]

But... the answer to which question?

 

Who is going to be cheaper than the multi-year costs of proven Boston winners Eovaldi and Wacha? Who is going to provide upside? Who is going to appease the fanbase, by hitting them upside the head? Who is going to take the heat off Sale, and make him look better by comparison? Who is going to put the heat on Cora, and make it easier to fire him? Who can't even throw hard enough anymore to hurt Nunez, if he swings from the heels?

 

Wacha is a “proven Boston winner” now? The 1.2fWAR pitcher with 120 IP?

 

Apparently when people ask “but can he pitch in Boston”, they’re referring to navigating traffic to get to Fenway on time.

[notin]

But... the answer to which question?

 

Who is going to be cheaper than the multi-year costs of proven Boston winners Eovaldi and Wacha? Who is going to provide upside? Who is going to appease the fanbase, by hitting them upside the head? Who is going to take the heat off Sale, and make him look better by comparison? Who is going to put the heat on Cora, and make it easier to fire him? Who can't even throw hard enough anymore to hurt Nunez, if he swings from the heels?

 

Wacha’s ERA rests over 7.00. Eovaldi has a more promising 5.20, of course 3 of his 5 starts have come against the Royals (5-18) and the Reds (8-15)…

[Bellhorn04]

I actually do think Sale will improve somewhat. He’ll never be the Pre-2019 Perennial Cy Young Runner Up again, but maybe a serviceable 2.5-3.0 fWAR pitcher is possible. Not sure if he is still dealing with rust and has yet to regain his form yet, but I think he’s shown even the most ardent Noah Song supporter that just trying to step back in after a prolonged hiatus isn’t so easy.

 

As for Kluber, hopefully he just piggybacks Paxton for a while. Or maybe Bello can re-emerge and force his DFA…

 

Yes, "hopefully" and "maybe" is all we've got in this area...

 

"even the most ardent Noah Song supporter" was very good, though.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

Meanwhile even the Jays are outspending the Sox, and signing starters to deals longer than a year...

[Hugh2]

But... the answer to which question?

 

Who is going to be cheaper than the multi-year costs of proven Boston winners Eovaldi and Wacha? Who is going to provide upside? Who is going to appease the fanbase, by hitting them upside the head? Who is going to take the heat off Sale, and make him look better by comparison? Who is going to put the heat on Cora, and make it easier to fire him? Who can't even throw hard enough anymore to hurt Nunez, if he swings from the heels?

 

Ohtani

[Bellhorn04]

What Chaim really should say: "Let's face it folks, the starters I sign are likely to suck, so just be glad I only sign them for a year." Now that would be some honesty.

[Bellhorn04]

Ohtani

 

Might as well dream big.

[Hugh2]

Wacha’s ERA rests over 7.00. Eovaldi has a more promising 5.20, of course 3 of his 5 starts have come against the Royals (5-18) and the Reds (8-15)…

 

That’s the thing, who are you going to sign?

 

I’d rather roll the Dice with Ohtani next year than have signed a 40 year old Verlander. Trading for an Ace is a viable option, but makes more sense to deplete your farm when the big league club is already strong.

 

Still wish we signed Senga. He provided much more upside than clubber.

[Hugh2]

Might as well dream big.

 

When is the last time the Red Sox set the market for free agent pitchers?

[notin]

Yes, "hopefully" and "maybe" is all we've got in this area...

 

"even the most ardent Noah Song supporter" was very good, though.

 

I think the sarcastic question of “do you think he forgot how to pitch?” might have a different answer than they originally suspected…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Wacha is a “proven Boston winner” now?

 

Not now, but in his only year as a Red Sox in 2022: 11 wins, 2 losses.