A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Nick]

It's way too early to give up on Whitlock as a starter. You guys are nuts.

 

Talk about lack of conviction.

[mvp 78]

Looks like you're right. I'm just not sure I'd call it babying, since he was pitching multi-inning stints and ended up with 73 innings.

 

Ottavino: 69 Appearances, 62 Innings

Whitlock: 46 Appearances, 73 Innings

 

While he may have pitched MORE innings, I think the reduced appearances and additional days of rest was an easier workload especially in the early part of the year when he only appeared in 5 games in April and 6 in May. He had the repertoire to pitch multi-innings and that's how he was used.

[Nick]

Is this the board that harped on Devers having to move to 1B because he was God awful at 3B?

I also read there is no way Verdugo can play right field.

 

Well Duran came back and his defense is improving.

 

I am as guilty as anyone else......this is the board famous for 'small sample size'.

 

Whitlock's starting career is inside the small sample size model.

 

He wants to start. Give him chance.

 

I think it's great that Houck is starting. This board complains about starting pitching but is quick to give up on a pitential starter.

 

You rather be safe and bet on the ultimate mediocre starter Pivetta. Yeah that is the way to win the world series.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Nick

[mvp 78]

Is this the board that harped on Devers having to move to 1B because he was God awful at 3B?

I also read there is no way Verdugo can play right field.

 

Well Duran came back and his defense is improving.

 

I am as guilty as anyone else......this is the board famous for 'small sample size'.

 

Whitlock's starting career is inside the small sample size model.

 

1. That was moon specifically.

 

2. Now that Verdugo has taken off the muscle and has worked on his athleticism, he's looking a little better.

 

3. Duran has been ok.

 

4. Whitlock needs to be given a real chance to start or just needs to be thrown to the pen permanently.

[Old Red]

It's way too early to give up on Whitlock as a starter. You guys are nuts.

 

Talk about lack of conviction.

 

For me it’s not about how he’ll do in the rotation, but how good he is in the pen. The early good work, of the Kut Man, and Wink have made Whitlock less needed there.

[notin]

It's way too early to give up on Whitlock as a starter. You guys are nuts.

 

Talk about lack of conviction.

 

I prefer both Whitlock and Houck in the bullpen, but not because of their track records as starters. I just really like the idea of a shutdown bullpen making the game 5-6 innings long for opposing hitters every night.

 

Winckowski and Schreiber are doing that job, so to me it’s like Whitlock and Houck are pitching where needed. It’s nice to see some progress from Houck. But I think most of the “Whitlock to the pen” crowd is focusing on his health and injuries. And they do have a point…

[Bellhorn04]

It's way too early to give up on Whitlock as a starter. You guys are nuts.

 

Talk about lack of conviction.

 

For me it's not about his ability, it's about his issues staying healthy.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For me it's not about his ability, it's about his issues staying healthy.

 

Whitlock was a starter in the minors for the Yankees before his elbow ish, an injury that happens to a lot of starters at a lot of levels.

[mvp 78]

For me it’s not about how he’ll do in the rotation, but how good he is in the pen. The early good work, of the Kut Man, and Wink have made Whitlock less needed there.

 

Crawford:

SP - 8.00 ERA

RP - 1.17 ERA

[Old Red]

I prefer both Whitlock and Houck in the bullpen, but not because of their track records as starters. I just really like the idea of a shutdown bullpen making the game 5-6 innings long for opposing hitters every night.

 

Winckowski and Schreiber are doing that job, so to me it’s like Whitlock and Houck are pitching where needed. It’s nice to see some progress from Houck. But I think most of the “Whitlock to the pen” crowd is focusing on his health and injuries. And they do have a point…

 

The only reason Houck, and Whitlock went into the rotation last year was, because of Sale being frail to start the season. Whitlock was put in to try, and get a 4 inning save on opening day last year. This year if Bello, and Paxton were healthy to start the season then I believe Houck would have been in the pen, and I’m not sure about Whitlock if he would have been healthy too. Either way neither needs to be jerked around between pen, and starting.

[mvp 78]

Whitlock was a starter in the minors for the Yankees before his elbow ish, an injury that happens to a lot of starters at a lot of levels.

 

And he's been an injury risk ever since. The question is: is it safer to keep him as a starter or put him in the pen? Is there even a difference?

[Old Red]

Crawford:

SP - 8.00 ERA

RP - 1.17 ERA

 

As long as Wink, and Kut Man are doing the job like they have been they need to stay in the roles they are currently are in unless the starting rotation turns into a Mash unit again.

[mvp 78]

As long as Wink, and Kut Man are doing the job like they have been they need to stay in the roles they are currently are in unless the starting rotation turns into a Mash unit again.

 

They are the new Houck and Whitlock. Just leave them alone IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

And he's been an injury risk ever since. The question is: is it safer to keep him as a starter or put him in the pen? Is there even a difference?

 

It's fewer innings, with higher stress innings. I don't think anybody really knows if there's a big difference.

[moonslav59]

1. That was moon specifically.

 

 

Wrong, again, Mr. DFArroyo.

[moonslav59]

As long as Wink, and Kut Man are doing the job like they have been they need to stay in the roles they are currently are in unless the starting rotation turns into a Mash unit again.

 

Is there room for 4 long men in the pen?

 

Wink

Craw

Whit

Houck

[Old Red]

Is there room for 4 long men in the pen?

 

Wink

Craw

Whit

Houck

 

Probably not if you take Whit, and Houck out of the rotation, but I think at least one of these guys would move to the backend like Wink last night.

[moonslav59]

Probably not if you take Whit, and Houck out of the rotation, but I think at least one of these guys would move to the backend like Wink last night.

 

I'm not against the idea, but like you said, our rotation is in shambles.

[notin]

The only reason Houck, and Whitlock went into the rotation last year was, because of Sale being frail to start the season. Whitlock was put in to try, and get a 4 inning save on opening day last year. This year if Bello, and Paxton were healthy to start the season then I believe Houck would have been in the pen, and I’m not sure about Whitlock if he would have been healthy too. Either way neither needs to be jerked around between pen, and starting.

 

If they can ever get a rotation of Sale, Kluber, Paxton, Bello and Pivetta, the remaining bullpen (Jansen, Martin, Whitlock, Houck, Rodriguez, Winckowski, Schreiber and Crawford) should be flat out trouble for opposing hitters.

 

Of course it would be shocking if those 13 pitchers were all healthy all at once…

[Old Red]

I'm not against the idea, but like you said, our rotation is in shambles.

 

It’s pretty much like piggybacking every game. Kluber making it into the 6th last night saved the BP a few bullets.

[moonslav59]

If they can ever get a rotation of Sale, Kluber, Paxton, Bello and Pivetta, the remaining bullpen (Jansen, Martin, Whitlock, Houck, Rodriguez, Winckowski, Schreiber and Crawford) should be flat out trouble for opposing hitters.

 

Of course it would be shocking if those 13 pitchers were all healthy all at once…

 

That 13 man staff would also force the DFA of Brasier, so YES! (Bleier, too. Oh well.)

[mvp 78]

That 13 man staff would also force the DFA of Brasier, so YES! (Bleier, too. Oh well.)

 

Crawford would be demoted first.

 

Who knows what the outlook on Whitlock is? Somewhere between 10 Day IL and TJS2.

[mvp 78]

Is there room for 4 long men in the pen?

 

Wink

Craw

Whit

Houck

 

If Houck is in the pen, he's a one inning guy. Also, no harm in having versatility.

[moonslav59]

It’s pretty much like piggybacking every game. Kluber making it into the 6th last night saved the BP a few bullets.

 

Kluber leads the Sox in IP, actually tied with sale with 29.1.

 

IP/GS

5.3 Whitlock

5.2 Houck

(League Avg 5.2, which is not 5 and 2/3)

 

4.9 Kluber, Sale, Pivetta

 

4.5 Crawford

 

4.1 Bello

 

Team Total 4.9, which is about 1/3 an inning off the league average. With an 8 man pen, I'm not sure we are overtaxing anyone- not that anyone is saying we are.

 

QS% (League Avg= 31%)

 

33 Sale

33 Whitlock

20 Houck

17 Kluber

0 all others

 

OPS Against

.710 Houck

.804 Pivetta

.825 Sale

.841 Kluber

.944 Whitlock

.974 Bello

 

Others:

.500 Jansen

.513 Wink

.545 Bern

.634 Craw

 

.754 Bra-man

.761 Schreib

.763 Bleier

.780 Martin

 

.824 Kelly

.960 Ort

 

bWAR+fWAR x 2.6 (to equal a full season)

 

2.9 Wink

1.6 Jansen

1.4 Craw

1.4 Bern

1.4 Houck

.9 Schr

.8 Martin

.2 Kelly

.0 Piv & Sale

-.2 Bello

-.3 Bleier

-.4 Kluber

-.4 Whit

-1.1 Brasier

-1.4 Ort

[mvp 78]

Kluber leads the Sox in IP, actually tied with sale with 29.1.

 

Well, yeah, they are the only two guys that have been able to start 6 times. If Houck throws 3.1, he'll match them next time out in his 6th start. Pivetta needs to go 4.2 in his 6th start.

[moonslav59]

If Houck is in the pen, he's a one inning guy. Also, no harm in having versatility.

 

Fine with me, but we need 5 capable SP'ers.

[moonslav59]

Well, yeah, they are the only two guys that have been able to start 6 times.

 

Yes, that's why I posted the IP/GS on the same post. Do try to keep up.

 

[Larry Cook]

If Houck is in the pen, he's a one inning guy. Also, no harm in having versatility.

 

Houck is an 8th inning guy. Schrieber is a 7th inning guy.

[notin]

Houck is an 8th inning guy. Schrieber is a 7th inning guy.

 

And if we give Winckowski the 6th inning and Martin the 5th inning and Crawford the 4th inning, we only need 3 IP from our starters…

[Nick]

Diekman owns a 7.94 ERA (10 earned runs in 11 ⅓ innings) over 13 appearances for Chicago this season. Last March, the veteran lefty signed a two-year, $8 million deal with the Red Sox that included a team option for 2024 but only lasted four months in Boston before the club traded him to the White Sox for catcher Reese McGuire at the trade deadline. That move has paid off for the Red Sox, as McGuire has become one of the club’s primary catchers while hitting a .333 with an .839 OPS in 54 games with the club. Diekman had a 7.04 ERA in 39 games with Chicago.

 

Looks like Bloom dodged a bullet. Diekman cut by the White Sox.