Rules rules rules

[jad]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34551389/major-league-baseball-competition-committee-vote-rules-changes-friday-eye-quickening-pace-play-sources-say

 

Ok, the pitch clock is great. But if I remember right, the anti-shift argument was driven by some .230 hitter who felt he was being deprived of a .240 average. The shift is actually one of the few really innovative things MLB has done, and it's both interesting and effective. You want more hitting?--narrow the strike zone. But having an umpire check alignment every play, then having infielders run around to re=position themselves then having YET ANOTHER replay review to make sure no one was a millimeter or so across the line--this is idiotic. Let the damn defenders play where they want.

[moonslav59]

Almost certain to see these changes...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/competition-committee-to-vote-on-proposed-2023-rule-changes-on-friday.html

 

Too bad there is no robo ump vote.

[notin]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34551389/major-league-baseball-competition-committee-vote-rules-changes-friday-eye-quickening-pace-play-sources-say

 

Ok, the pitch clock is great. But if I remember right, the anti-shift argument was driven by some .230 hitter who felt he was being deprived of a .240 average. The shift is actually one of the few really innovative things MLB has done, and it's both interesting and effective. You want more hitting?--narrow the strike zone. But having an umpire check alignment every play, then having infielders run around to re=position themselves then having YET ANOTHER replay review to make sure no one was a millimeter or so across the line--this is idiotic. Let the damn defenders play where they want.

 

I agree.

 

Strategies shouldn’t be implemented to prevent strategies….

[moonslav59]

The shift is not "innovative:" it's just used way more.

 

I agree, it's a stupid move by MLB.

[oldtimer]

Almost certain to see these changes...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/competition-committee-to-vote-on-proposed-2023-rule-changes-on-friday.html

 

Too bad there is no robo ump vote.

 

Changes to speed up pace of play will be welcomed by me. After watching a Sox pitcher stand like a statue for 26 seconds, presumably to keep the first base runner from timing his steal and the batter staying in the box that long, that kind of thing borders on the ridiculous. I am not a fan of the shift driven by front office technical nerds either. They shifted Ted Williams long ago, but now players consult their printouts kept in their hats for virtually every player. Doesn't feel like baseball.

 

Yes, I'm for technology assisted umpires behind the plate. There is too much variability game to game and in game. With the pitchers throwing ever harder,, the hitter needs to know that balls out of the zone won't be called strikes and the pitchers need to get a fair shake when they do make a great pitch. The technology is currently available to help the umpires make the correct call consistently.

[moonslav59]

Changes to speed up pace of play will be welcomed by me. After watching a Sox pitcher stand like a statue for 26 seconds, presumably to keep the first base runner from timing his steal and the batter staying in the box that long, that kind of thing borders on the ridiculous. I am not a fan of the shift driven by front office technical nerds either. They shifted Ted Williams long ago, but now players consult their printouts kept in their hats for virtually every player. Doesn't feel like baseball.

 

Yes, I'm for technology assisted umpires behind the plate. There is too much variability game to game and in game. With the pitchers throwing ever harder,, the hitter needs to know that balls out of the zone won't be called strikes and the pitchers need to get a fair shake when they do make a great pitch. The technology is currently available to help the umpires make the correct call consistently.

 

I'm all for the pitch clock and robo umps.

 

The shift has been part of baseball for decades. It does not slow the game down. It gets outs, so the game goes faster by more than it takes for players to move.

[redsoxrules]

Shift is garbage. I've said many times. The game was created to have 9 position on the field with an assign position. We may as well just call them ball players with no specific position. People say , well learn how to his the other way. It's not that easy with the pitching arms in the game today and the stuff they throw to go oppo. I for one approve to ban the Shift. The game is basically controlled by computers now. It's f***ing awful. Players have cards. Oh leadoff batter is on. I got to stand 5 foot to the right and then 4 foot backwards. Like wtf. Players are following orders and nothing is on the human element now. The game is turning to s*** really. We will see a lot more 300 hitters with the shift being banned which will be good for the game.

[redsoxrules]

I do hope the pitch clock gets voted in. That alone will speed up the game a lot.

[moonslav59]

I do hope the pitch clock gets voted in. That alone will speed up the game a lot.

 

They say the votes are largely ceremonial.

[jad]

Shift is garbage. I've said many times. The game was created to have 9 position on the field with an assign position. We may as well just call them ball players with no specific position. People say , well learn how to his the other way. It's not that easy with the pitching arms in the game today and the stuff they throw to go oppo. I for one approve to ban the Shift. The game is basically controlled by computers now. It's f***ing awful. Players have cards. Oh leadoff batter is on. I got to stand 5 foot to the right and then 4 foot backwards. Like wtf. Players are following orders and nothing is on the human element now. The game is turning to s*** really. We will see a lot more 300 hitters with the shift being banned which will be good for the game.

 

So you would like to go back to the original idea, which was that 1B 2B and 3B would be positioned right on the bag? Runners can be called out by hitting them with the ball--like Dodgeball. Also, there should be no balls and strikes--another 'innovation' of the late 19th c., and if allowed, walks should count as hits? All these modern innovations have ruined the game.

[mvp 78]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34551389/major-league-baseball-competition-committee-vote-rules-changes-friday-eye-quickening-pace-play-sources-say

 

Ok, the pitch clock is great. But if I remember right, the anti-shift argument was driven by some .230 hitter who felt he was being deprived of a .240 average. The shift is actually one of the few really innovative things MLB has done, and it's both interesting and effective. You want more hitting?--narrow the strike zone. But having an umpire check alignment every play, then having infielders run around to re=position themselves then having YET ANOTHER replay review to make sure no one was a millimeter or so across the line--this is idiotic. Let the damn defenders play where they want.

 

I thought the shift call was not going to be up for replay review?

[mvp 78]

Almost certain to see these changes...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/competition-committee-to-vote-on-proposed-2023-rule-changes-on-friday.html

 

Too bad there is no robo ump vote.

 

A stricter version of the outside part of the plate would definitely increase runs. Right now, pitchers get too much leeway out there.

[mvp 78]

I would keep the shift, add robo k zone, pitch clock and not let batters step out of the box except for injury or equipment issue.

[jad]

I would keep the shift, add robo k zone, pitch clock and not let batters step out of the box except for injury or equipment issue.

 

Agree completely, as would most rational people (which does not include .220 hitting lefties or MLB administrators).

[moonslav59]

i would keep the shift, add robo k zone, pitch clock and not let batters step out of the box except for injury or equipment issue.

 

bingo!

[Hugh2]

Imagine if David Ortiz was born 15 years later, and got to hit without a shift?

[moonslav59]

Imagine if David Ortiz was born 15 years later, and got to hit without a shift?

 

And, Ted Williams with that massive RF. He'd have hit .400 a few times.

 

It's not really fair to them and the integrity of records to take the shift away. I know, I know, things have always changed in baseball, like the 162 game season, actual OF walls, specialization of pitching staffs...

 

If a batter always hits the ball in one area, you should be able to position yourself there.

 

The pitch clock and robo umps will quicken and clean up the game as much as needed. Leave the rest alone.

[jacksonianmarch]

With today's pitching, we need to get back to the 9 positions on the field and not a conglomerate of 9 guys somewhere out there. Hitters have gotten stronger, but the age of Driveline and pitcher strengthening has given pitching a decided edge over the past 5 years. Add in the ball changes and you've got games that aren't very watchable. The game itself suffers without some offense. This should help it. It should also bring back the age of the high average slugger

[redsoxrules]

So you would like to go back to the original idea, which was that 1B 2B and 3B would be positioned right on the bag? Runners can be called out by hitting them with the ball--like Dodgeball. Also, there should be no balls and strikes--another 'innovation' of the late 19th c., and if allowed, walks should count as hits? All these modern innovations have ruined the game.

 

Not to be positioned on the bag but play your position. A 3rd basement should not be playing close to 2nd base. It's seriously gotten out of hand. Players just try to hit dingers

[mvp 78]

Not to be positioned on the bag but play your position. A 3rd basement should not be playing close to 2nd base. It's seriously gotten out of hand. Players just try to hit dingers

 

If everyone is to the right of 2b, learn to hit the other way.

[Old Red]

To me the best thing about the rules changes is to get some control back from the geeks, and nerds, and banning the shift. Yes I know the shift has been around for over 100 years, but when shifts go up 50,000 in a ten year period that is to me analytical driven. If you want to watch 4 OF, or someone in short RF, which Story plays often then go watch softball. I’m all in 100% for all the rules changes.

[moonslav59]

To me the best thing about the rules changes is to get some control back from the geeks, and nerds, and banning the shift. Yes I know the shift has been around for over 100 years, but when shifts go up 50,000 in a ten year period that is to me analytical driven. If you want to watch 4 OF, or someone in short RF, which Story plays often then go watch softball. I’m all in 100% for all the rules changes.

 

I guess they should have made Paul Blair play back in normal CF position.

[redsoxrules]

If everyone is to the right of 2b, learn to hit the other way.

 

It's not that easy when you have the pitchers in today's game. Can't hit the other way when you're being pitched inside to pull. T

[Old Red]

I guess they should have made Paul Blair play back in normal CF position.

 

Not quite the same thing. It’s like someone here in a earlier discussion that said guarding the 1st and 3rd base line was like the shift. No that’s not either. I love the ban. Congrats for MLB for doing it.

[Hugh2]

I wonder if this puts more value into speed on the bases, and into strong-armed catchers.

 

One thing worth noting, the young guys coming up are already used to this. Bodes well for guys like Bello/Casas on the roster. Also, if the run game is about to become more valuable, then so is controlling it. Which makes a McGuire/Wong catching platoon more valuable. I wonder if Bloom had this in mind when acquiring McGuire.

[moonslav59]

Not quite the same thing. It’s like someone here in a earlier discussion that said guarding the 1st and 3rd base line was like the shift. No that’s not either. I love the ban. Congrats for MLB for doing it.

 

Not quite, yes, but Blair stood farther away from the normal CF position than many current shift players do front theirs.

 

It's like you are allowed to use intelligence and pre-planning, but just not too much.

[redsoxrules]

To me the best thing about the rules changes is to get some control back from the geeks, and nerds, and banning the shift. Yes I know the shift has been around for over 100 years, but when shifts go up 50,000 in a ten year period that is to me analytical driven. If you want to watch 4 OF, or someone in short RF, which Story plays often then go watch softball. I’m all in 100% for all the rules changes.

 

I couldn't agree more. With all the analytics in the game today it's making players lazy. Back in the day the players would be ones to study their opponents to figure out where to play them. Now they have cards in their hat to tell them where to play. To me it's defeating the purpose on how someone is actually good at baseball. As if he wasn't told on what spot to be on how good of a fielder would this person be. How many balls would they actually catch. There's zero human element to the game anymore. Just grip and rip. Other sports don't use this much analytics.

 

Now we have WAR, WRC , UZR, UZR 150 etc etc.

I'm not that old but remember the day where people just really talked about Avg, OBP , HR and RBIs. Oh and SB, something that was actually relevant. Thats rarely a thing anymore

[Old Red]

Not quite, yes, but Blair stood farther away from the normal CF position than many current shift players do front theirs.

 

It's like you are allowed to use intelligence and pre-planning, but just not too much.

All this big influx of shift movement was analytics driven. Going up 50,000 shifts in a ten year period to boot. Bringing Paul Blair in on the IF dirt would be the same comparison not if he was deep, or shallow. As far as I can figure the 2B can go over, and stand next to the 1B if he wanted to, but their spikes have to be in the IF dirt.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

I couldn't agree more. With all the analytics in the game today it's making players lazy. Back in the day the players would be ones to study their opponents to figure out where to play them. Now they have cards in their hat to tell them where to play. To me it's defeating the purpose on how someone is actually good at baseball. As if he wasn't told on what spot to be on how good of a fielder would this person be. How many balls would they actually catch. There's zero human element to the game anymore. Just grip and rip. Other sports don't use this much analytics.

 

Now we have WAR, WRC , UZR, UZR 150 etc etc.

I'm not that old but remember the day where people just really talked about Avg, OBP , HR and RBIs. Oh and SB, something that was actually relevant. Thats rarely a thing anymore

How do the analytics departments value the good ole small ball like hit, and run, bunting, and stolen bases?

Edited September 9, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

How do the analytics departments value the good ole small ball like hit, and run, bunting, and stolen bases?

 

Stolen bases and caught stealing are factored into WAR in the baserunning grades.