Rules rules rules

[redsoxrules]

How do the analytics departments value the good ole small ball like hit, and run, bunting, and stolen bases?

 

They don't as I rarely see it any of it. It's a shock now when I watch a game where a stolen base is attempted or even a hit and run for that matter.

 

I don't even see value in managers anymore really. Like as if all the moves Cora does is on his own and not coming from the analytics team. It's really getting out of hand. I miss baseball from the early 80s to the early 2000s.

[Old Red]

They don't as I rarely see it any of it. It's a shock now when I watch a game where a stolen base is attempted or even a hit and run for that matter.

 

I don't even see value in managers anymore really. Like as if all the moves Cora does is on his own and not coming from the analytics team. It's really getting out of hand. I miss baseball from the early 80s to the early 2000s.

 

Joe Madden was right when he said some of the analytics boys should come down to the dugout sometime to see what really goes on, and not just sit at a computer.

[moonslav59]

All this big influx of shift movement was analytics driven. Going up 50,000 shifts in a ten year period to boot. Bringing Paul Blair in on the IF dirt would be the same comparison not if he was deep, or shallow. As far as I can figure the 2B could go over, and stand next to the 1B if he wanted to, but their spikes have to be in the IF dirt.

 

It's not that extreme, but I respect your opinion.

 

I understand how the shift has grown exponentially, and yes the analytics has driven it, but it's basically playing smart and trying to outsmart your opponent (pre-planned.) All the batter needs to do is lay down a few successful bunts to outsmart "the geeks" and turn the trend around.

 

Maybe when the RP'er role started changing due to intelligence by GMs and managers, MLB should have banned the use of so many RP'ers in a game. I mean that was ridiculous, at the time, too.

[Bellhorn04]

They don't as I rarely see it any of it. It's a shock now when I watch a game where a stolen base is attempted or even a hit and run for that matter.

 

I don't even see value in managers anymore really. Like as if all the moves Cora does is on his own and not coming from the analytics team. It's really getting out of hand. I miss baseball from the early 80s to the early 2000s.

 

If you're a stolen base fan, you're kind of rooting for the wrong team. For many years the Red Sox were notorious for their lack of speed and their emphasis on slugging. I'd say it was actually analytics that changed the team's approach.

[Bobe2]

It's not that extreme, but I respect your opinion.

 

I understand how the shift has grown exponentially, and yes the analytics has driven it, but it's basically playing smart and trying to outsmart your opponent (pre-planned.) All the batter needs to do is lay down a few successful bunts to outsmart "the geeks" and turn the trend around.

 

Maybe when the RP'er role started changing due to intelligence by GMs and managers, MLB should have banned the use of so many RP'ers in a game. I mean that was ridiculous, at the time, too.

 

They did, you have the 3 batter rule

[Old Red]

It's not that extreme, but I respect your opinion.

 

I understand how the shift has grown exponentially, and yes the analytics has driven it, but it's basically playing smart and trying to outsmart your opponent (pre-planned.) All the batter needs to do is lay down a few successful bunts to outsmart "the geeks" and turn the trend around.

 

Maybe when the RP'er role started changing due to intelligence by GMs and managers, MLB should have banned the use of so many RP'ers in a game. I mean that was ridiculous, at the time, too.

I understand all your points, but it’s over, and the shift will no longer be. Now you can do what I’ve been doing for a few years now. Which is watch the shift in games, and complain about it, or not watch at all. Now the shoe is on the other foot, so next year it will be watch with no shift, and complain about it, or not watch at all.

[jad]

They don't as I rarely see it any of it. It's a shock now when I watch a game where a stolen base is attempted or even a hit and run for that matter.

 

I don't even see value in managers anymore really. Like as if all the moves Cora does is on his own and not coming from the analytics team. It's really getting out of hand. I miss baseball from the early 80s to the early 2000s.

 

Everyone misses the way things were twenty or more years ago.

[jad]

I understand all your points, but it’s over, and the shift will no longer be. Now you can do what I’ve been doing for a few years now. Which is watch the shift in games, and complain about it, or not watch at all. Now the shoe is on the other foot, so next year it will be watch with no shift, and complain about it, or not watch at all.

 

I just can't wait for the thrilling replays used to determine if a fielder's toe was a millimeter onto the grass! Now THAT'S baseball!

[Bellhorn04]

I understand all your points, but it’s over, and the shift will no longer be. Now you can do what I’ve been doing for a few years now. Which is watch the shift in games, and complain about it, or not watch at all. Now the shoe is on the other foot, so next year it will be watch with no shift, and complain about it, or not watch at all.

 

Red Sox fans will always find lots to complain about. This board is just a small sampling of evidence.

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone misses the way things were twenty or more years ago.

 

Not Red Sox fans, I would hope.

[Old Red]

Red Sox fans will always find lots to complain about. This board is just a small sampling of evidence.

 

That I agree with 100%.

[Old Red]

Not Red Sox fans, I would hope.

 

I think he was talking about the way the game is played, and not the results the Red Sox have had the last 20 years.

[jad]

I think he was talking about the way the game is played, and not the results the Red Sox have had the last 20 years.

 

I was talking about everything in life generally!

[notin]

So you would like to go back to the original idea, which was that 1B 2B and 3B would be positioned right on the bag? Runners can be called out by hitting them with the ball--like Dodgeball. Also, there should be no balls and strikes--another 'innovation' of the late 19th c., and if allowed, walks should count as hits? All these modern innovations have ruined the game.

 

 

Also, throwing overhand and foul poles…

[Old Red]

I was talking about everything in life generally!

 

That too!

[Maxbialystock]

These changes all make sense to me.

 

Speeding up the game is long overdue, as are ending as much as possible all those little stalling tactics engaged in by both hitters and pitchers.

 

As for those computer-driven shifts, I think they are intrusive and, just as bad, unfairly help the defense--and the pitcher--at a time when hitters are struggling. To remind: hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely is tough enough without having a computer telling the pitcher what to throw and fielders where they should ideally be positioned.

 

That said, my insistence that baseball is all about human skills--vice human-developed computer programs--seems to run counter what my fellow boob-tube watchers also seem to want. Robo-umps.

 

And they want them because they believe that little rectangle we see on our tv screens is real even though it is literally invisible to the hitters, pitchers, and umpires. That's right, we now insist on pitch-calling accuracy which nobody on the field can actually see. Why? Because we can see it on our TV screens and therefore it is more real than the umpires, who are on the verge of obsolescence.

[moonslav59]

I understand all your points, but it’s over, and the shift will no longer be. Now you can do what I’ve been doing for a few years now. Which is watch the shift in games, and complain about it, or not watch at all. Now the shoe is on the other foot, so next year it will be watch with no shift, and complain about it, or not watch at all.

 

It doesn't bother me, but I don't think it's the fair thing to do. I doubt it makes any difference in my enjoyment of the game, just as the many shifts over the past few years didn't bother me, at all. (Well, it kinda bothered me that absolutely nobody tried bunting on a consistent basis to force the teams to stop shifting.)

 

Hell, a good hard bunt would be a double.

[moonslav59]

They did, you have the 3 batter rule

 

It barely made a difference, although it put some lefty RP'ers out of business.

 

Almost all teams carry 13 pitchers, now, and they use a lot, every game.

 

That has "ruined the game!"

 

[moonslav59]

Joe Madden was right when he said some of the analytics boys should come down to the dugout sometime to see what really goes on, and not just sit at a computer.

 

And some of the old school boys should go sit with some stat geeks and really try to see what they are all about, and how data and intelligence can actually improve a player and team.

 

Look what it did with JD.

 

Look how VTek pre-dated the analytics people by having an encyclopedia brain, he used to outsmart many a batter. That damn stat geek!

[Old Red]

It doesn't bother me, but I don't think it's the fair thing to do. I doubt it makes any difference in my enjoyment of the game, just as the many shifts over the past few years didn't bother me, at all. (Well, it kinda bothered me that absolutely nobody tried bunting on a consistent basis to force the teams to stop shifting.)

 

Hell, a good hard bunt would be a double.

 

I’m sure MLB has heard lots of negative feedback on the subject, and they wouldn’t be doing it otherwise.

[moonslav59]

I’m sure MLB has heard lots of negative feedback on the subject, and they wouldn’t be doing it otherwise.

 

Just go to robo umps, and it's all good for me.

[jad]

These changes all make sense to me.

 

Speeding up the game is long overdue, as are ending as much as possible all those little stalling tactics engaged in by both hitters and pitchers.

 

As for those computer-driven shifts, I think they are intrusive and, just as bad, unfairly help the defense--and the pitcher--at a time when hitters are struggling. To remind: hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely is tough enough without having a computer telling the pitcher what to throw and fielders where they should ideally be positioned.

 

That said, my insistence that baseball is all about human skills--vice human-developed computer programs--seems to run counter what my fellow boob-tube watchers also seem to want. Robo-umps.

 

And they want them because they believe that little rectangle we see on our tv screens is real even though it is literally invisible to the hitters, pitchers, and umpires. That's right, we now insist on pitch-calling accuracy which nobody on the field can actually see. Why? Because we can see it on our TV screens and therefore it is more real than the umpires, who are on the verge of obsolescence.

 

Except, Max, umpires are graded based on how their calls reflect what that invisible box is.

[Maxbialystock]

Except, Max, umpires are graded based on how their calls reflect what that invisible box is.

 

True, but those are evaluative purposes, including feedback for the umps to improve their calls. They've been doing that for a long time, even for spring training games. I just want a human calling balls and strikes. If it's played by humans, the calls should be made by humans.

 

If MLB goes to robo umps, it will be the only sport in the world that is essentially officiated by cameras and computer programs. I say that because the pitcher-catcher confrontation is central to every single game. I'm guessing 250 pitches are thrown in a game and maybe 70 (15 hits by each team plus 20 playable balls that result in outs) result in a hit ball that is playable. Provide your own numbers, but don't try to say that even half of pitched balls result in playable hits or outs.

[moonslav59]

Except, Max, umpires are graded based on how their calls reflect what that invisible box is.

 

Wait. Umpires are graded?

[moonslav59]

True, but those are evaluative purposes, including feedback for the umps to improve their calls. They've been doing that for a long time, even for spring training games. I just want a human calling balls and strikes. If it's played by humans, the calls should be made by humans.

 

If MLB goes to robo umps, it will be the only sport in the world that is essentially officiated by cameras and computer programs. I say that because the pitcher-catcher confrontation is central to every single game. I'm guessing 250 pitches are thrown in a game and maybe 70 (15 hits by each team plus 20 playable balls that result in outs) result in a hit ball that is playable. Provide your own numbers, but don't try to say that even half of pitched balls result in playable hits or outs.

 

Tennis uses cameras. MLB, NFL and NBA us cameras.

 

Just get the calls right.

 

Let pitchers and catchers know the strike zone will be the same, no matter who the ump is.

[Bellhorn04]

I was talking about everything in life generally!

 

Yes, that's what I thought.

[Old Red]

Tennis uses cameras. MLB, NFL and NBA us cameras.

 

Just get the calls right.

 

Let pitchers and catchers know the strike zone will be the same, no matter who the ump is.

 

Refs are bad in football. Refs are bad in basketball, and umps are bad calling strikes in baseball, which is just the human nature, and yes players can be bad as well.

[Bellhorn04]

Refs are bad in football. Refs are bad in basketball, and umps are bad calling strikes in baseball, which is just the human nature, and yes players can be bad as well.

 

Is every official bad, or is officiating really hard?

[Old Red]

Is every official bad, or is officiating really hard?

 

In football, and basketball something could be called on pretty much every play. Just like on here every one sees things differently, and interprets different views.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Old Red

[jad]

In football, and basketball something could be called on pretty much every play. Just like on here every one sees things differently, and forms different views.

 

Yes, judgment calls like holding, pass interference, or touch fouls in basketball. Same with any contact sport. But tennis has been helped immeasurably by Hawkeye (now the only meltdowns against officials are by pathological whiners and psychos like Kyrgios and other recent retirees). But if computers can do it quikly and efficiently, go for it. (How boring are hitters whining about every call that doesn't go their way). Also, arguing with officials should never be considered a traditional part of a sport. Recently had a AA game ruined for me by a belligerent a-hole yelling at an ump for 4 innings for a call he (of course) got right. Time to get that out of the sport.