Rules rules rules

[Old Red]

Do away with the cheat notes too. No more looking in your cap to see where you should play. Do some preparation.

 

I never saw Yaz with one of those, but probably the Nerds, and Clones hand them out before each game.

[redsoxrules]

Why?

 

All other sports do it.

 

Do you also think the NFL should ban nickel back package, 3 WR sets, tackle eligible plays, and 2 TE formations? And make every team standardize only on the 3-4 defensive line?

 

MLB rules state you get 9 defenders. I have no problem with someone strategizing the best place to play them and even less when some clever hitter (or runner) takes advantage

 

The NFL has plenty of rules of what formations you CANT do. Nice try. Even the NBA and the NHL has some as well. There has to be guidelines to follow and not just play 9 players wherever the hell you want. You'd probably be fine if the pitcher pitched from Second base

[notin]

The NFL has plenty of rules of what formations you CANT do. Nice try. Even the NBA and the NHL has some as well. There has to be guidelines to follow and not just play 9 players wherever the hell you want. You'd probably be fine if the pitcher pitched from Second base

 

 

 

Again, the NFL has rules on what the offense can’t use for a formation. Defense can put anyone anywhere on their side of the line…

[notin]

Guarding the lines you are still in your area of position, and once again not even close to a shift. Unpopular strategy is right, and the only enforcement that has to be done is two IF on the left side of the IF, and two infielders on the right side of the infield, and their spikes have to be in the IF dirt. Very simple, and as far as I can tell the 3B, and SS could be standing side by side holding hands. The OF has nothing to do with any of this, so playing shallow, or deep, nor does shading either way.Very simple. I’ll keep cheering, and you can keep complaining.

 

 

So now you want to ban bringing the infield in, too???

[Bellhorn04]

Again, the NFL has rules on what the offense can’t use for a formation. Defense can put anyone anywhere on their side of the line…

 

Some say that in baseball the defense is the offense, because they're the ones who initiate the play, who know what the pitch will be etc.

 

(Frankly I'm just arguing for the sake of it.)

 

[notin]

I like all of the new rules. I hate the shift. Infielders playing 30 feet into right field and throwing guys out is not good for baseball. Fans want to see offense. Pitchers have always taken too long to throw the ball. Baseball has become hard to watch. The new rules will make it a better game. The players need to stop crying.

 

I don’t like the shift, but I don’t like the idea of banning defensive alignments and strategies.

 

I hated watching managers change pitchers every batter, but that doesn’t mean I like the 3 batter minimum rule.

[Old Red]

So now you want to ban bringing the infield in, too???

 

Who’s talking about banning bringing the IF in? It wasn’t even mentioned by me. Seeing things that aren’t even there again, because you are so hung up on guarding the 3B, and 1B lines as like a shift.

[notin]

Some say that in baseball the defense is the offense, because they're the ones who initiate the play, who know what the pitch will be etc.

 

(Frankly I'm just arguing for the sake of it.)

 

 

I’ve always heard baseball is the only sport where the defense has the ball.

 

Although one might think Cricket also counts, although I am not sure they call it a ball…

[Old Red]

I don’t like the shift, but I don’t like the idea of banning defensive alignments and strategies.

 

I hated watching managers change pitchers every batter, but that doesn’t mean I like the 3 batter minimum rule.

All analytics driven, which I don’t see as bringing any improvement to the game.

[notin]

All analytics driven, which I don’t see as bringing any improvement to the game.

 

The 3 batter minimum rule wasn’t analytics driven. It was due to September roster expansion and some managers (I’m looking at you, Bruce Bochy) would drag innings on forever by maximizing his 14 man bullpen…

[notin]

All analytics driven, which I don’t see as bringing any improvement to the game.

 

And are you implying the decades-old practice of using RHP to face a RHH is a new-fangled analytics thing? And not something MLB has been employing for decades??

 

It’s one thing to not understand the analytics. It’s another to have no idea what they are and still complain about them…

[Old Red]

And are you implying the decades-old practice of using RHP to face a RHH is a new-dangled analytics thing?

 

No! The 50,000 shift increase in a 10 year period, which I believe is at a all time pace this year also.

[notin]

Do away with the cheat notes too. No more looking in your cap to see where you should play. Do some preparation.

 

And signs, too!! Why have first and third bae coaches fo that?! We don’t need those!! The only reason coaches started using them was for the deaf players!!! (True story.)

[notin]

No! The 50,000 shift increase in a 10 year period, which I believe is at a all time pace this year also.

 

 

That also has nothing to do with the 3 batter minimum rule, and your post certainly implied you to believe it was analytics-driven…

[Old Red]

That also has nothing to do with the 3 batter minimum rule, and your post certainly implied you to believe it was analytics-driven…

 

Who said it did? Nobody!

[Old Red]

And signs, too!! Why have first and third bae coaches fo that?! We don’t need those!! The only reason coaches started using them was for the deaf players!!! (True story.)

 

How many straws are you going to grasp at to say it’s the same as the shift, which is going, going GONE next year.

[Maxbialystock]

Also soccer/football has 4 officials, not three. And that’s not counting the two video officials who work every game…

 

The difference, as I keep saying, is who makes the calls. The referee and the linesmen make them. And the video officials are available for any issues. That's exactly the same as those guys in NYC monitoring MLB games. They make the final ruling after a challenge.

 

What roboumps will do is simply eliminated umpires from any say in balls and strikes, which, as I keep reminding every, are central to the game of baseball because the confrontation between hitter and pitcher is central.

 

Why else does a MLB team normally carry 12 or even 13 pitchers on a 25 man roster? The Sox right now have a box of rocks for their pitching staff, but 14 of 28 roster players are pitchers.

 

And why else do most teams fill their lineups with hitters who can hopefully field vs. great fielders who can hopefully hit?

 

Indeed, one can make an argument that the shifts developed by computers were intended to optimize pitching effectiveness while minimizing the need for great defense.

[moonslav59]

What roboumps will do is simply eliminated umpires from any say in balls and strikes, which, as I keep reminding every, are central to the game of baseball because the confrontation between hitter and pitcher is central.

.

 

That's how it should be, yes. Batter v Pitcher and Pitcher v Batter and NOT Pitcher v Ump and Batter v UMP.

 

How can a computer whispering in the earpiece of the home plate ump, "Ball" or "Strike" change the sacred pitcher-batter relationship, except maybe for the good, as they no longer have to rely on the totally random chance that an ump may make a bad call.

 

The switch to robo umps can be seamless and unnoticeable, except that no bad call will ever be made. No more arguing with the ump. No more batter stepping out of the box to regroup after a b ad call. No more pitcher wandering around the mound in anger, trying to keep himself from being thrown out of teh game for bitching at the ump. No more deference being paid to players known for having a "good eye," and rookies needing to feel like they have to swing at anything close to the K zone, until they "earn the respect" of the umps.

 

Pitchers and batters can actually concentrate on hitting and pitching to a known K zone. They no longer have to make adjustments to certain umps known for calling low Ks or outside Ks, or whatever. Consistent and correct calls should be the goal of any sport, and replays have shown that they and the fans want just that.

 

Yes, the game is between humans, who make mistakes, but an umps mistake should not be planned and accepted, unless it has to be.

[notin]

What roboumps will do is simply eliminated umpires from any say in balls and strikes, which, as I keep reminding every, are central to the game of baseball because the confrontation between hitter and pitcher is central.

 

How does the umpire change that confrontation, besides serving as a distraction?

 

I’m not convinced that having the home plate umpire make the determination for himself or receive a verbal cue about whether or not a pitch is in the strike zone creates this radical difference.

 

Bear in mind

 

1. The home plate umpire will still be on the field making ball and strike calls. Also calling plays at the plate.

2. Calling balls and strikes is insanely difficult and also very important to the game.

3. It could eliminate stupid arguments. Sure players will try but the ump will just shrug his shoulders and point to his earpiece. End of argument.

[jad]

The NFL has plenty of rules of what formations you CANT do. Nice try. Even the NBA and the NHL has some as well. There has to be guidelines to follow and not just play 9 players wherever the hell you want. You'd probably be fine if the pitcher pitched from Second base

 

They have no rules about the set of defensive players.

[notin]

How many straws are you going to grasp at to say it’s the same as the shift, which is going, going GONE next year.

 

Great. Of course we were talking about the little cheat cards.

 

Not sure if this has sunk into your brain cell yet, but I don’t care that the shift is gone. I care that MLB is making rules to ban strategies and not doing the stuff they need to do to speed up the game.

 

For example, we get a 3 batter minimum rule so managers don’t change too many pitchers in an inning and slow the game down. Why don’t we get a pitch clock? Did you know there are rules in the MLB rulebook for how long a pitcher can hold the ball? Why in all these attempts to speed up the game do they ignore the clock?

 

It seems like they’re going to limit pitchers to 3 throws to first to hold a runner before they put in a pitch clock. No idea why MLB is so deadset against this…

[Old Red]

Great. Of course we were talking about the little cheat cards.

 

Not sure if this has sunk into your brain cell yet, but I don’t care that the shift is gone. I care that MLB is making rules to ban strategies and not doing the stuff they need to do to speed up the game.

 

For example, we get a 3 batter minimum rule so managers don’t change too many pitchers in an inning and slow the game down. Why don’t we get a pitch clock? Did you know there are rules in the MLB rulebook for how long a pitcher can hold the ball? Why in all these attempts to speed up the game do they ignore the clock?

 

It seems like they’re going to limit pitchers to 3 throws to first to hold a runner before they put in a pitch clock. No idea why MLB is so deadset against this…

 

Where did you get the idea there is no pitch clock?

[Maxbialystock]

How does the umpire change that confrontation, besides serving as a distraction?

 

I’m not convinced that having the home plate umpire make the determination for himself or receive a verbal cue about whether or not a pitch is in the strike zone creates this radical difference.

 

Bear in mind

 

1. The home plate umpire will still be on the field making ball and strike calls. Also calling plays at the plate.

2. Calling balls and strikes is insanely difficult and also very important to the game.

3. It could eliminate stupid arguments. Sure players will try but the ump will just shrug his shoulders and point to his earpiece. End of argument.

 

Well, I have to admit that you and moonslav have made some persuasive arguments for robo-umps. So well done--and I do mean that.

 

But to me it goes back to the simple fact that the strike zone is the least real thing on the field of play. All other calls are based on did a player catch the ball or not, touch the bag or not, get tagged before he touched the bag or not, hit a fair ball or a foul ball, hit a double or a home run, balk or not balk, etc, etc. In other words, something you can see.

 

Balls and strikes, on the other hand are called based on the width of the plate, and an interpretation of the top of the strike zone and the bottom of it, based on the physique of the batter, which, I hasten to add, can vary during an at bat. To make it even more complicated, the pitch itself changes trajectories and must intersect the strike zone, I believe, at the front of the plate. In other words, it's entirely possible the camera/computer have the wrong strike zone for a given hitter, but we accept it because its based on technology which dominates our lives in 2022. I recently saw a large photo of at least 100 people walking up and down stairs some wide outdoor stairs (I think at least 30 stairs), and every single one of them was fixated on her/his cell phones.

 

So, pardon me for saying so, but, if the batter and the pitcher are humans doing their best to pitch or hit (or not swing at) those pitches which not even technology can be trusted to get right, I want a no-baloney fallible human umpire giving his best shot at whether the pitch was a ball or a strike. It's worked for 150 years. I have yet to read a quote from any retired player, HOF'er or not, blaming the umpires for preventing him from being all he could be.

 

And I look forward to continued griping by hitters, catchers, pitchers, managers, coaches, and bench jockeys because griping is good for the soul. Done by the best, griping can even be entertaining.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

Where did you get the idea there is no pitch clock?

 

There is one? And they penalize the pitcher for taking too long?

[Old Red]

There is one? And they penalize the pitcher for taking too long?

 

Just like any play clock. You get penalized for taking to long.

[moonslav59]

Just like any play clock. You get penalized for taking to long.

 

But, can the batter step out of the box 5 times?

 

I remember Nomar was slower than any pitcher ever was.

[Old Red]

But, can the batter step out of the box 5 times?

 

I remember Nomar was slower than any pitcher ever was.

 

Not sure on the batters.

[moonslav59]

Not sure on the batters.

 

It wasn't voted on.

 

I think that was what notin was driving at. It's not just the pitcher who controls the time of the games.

[notin]

But, can the batter step out of the box 5 times?

 

I remember Nomar was slower than any pitcher ever was.

 

Mike Hargrove was the worst. His nickname - well earned at that - was The Human Rain Delay…

[Old Red]

It wasn't voted on.

 

I think that was what notin was driving at. It's not just the pitcher who controls the time of the games.

 

The hitters in the box has some restrictions as well when you read all the rule. I’m not sure about the bigger bases, but NO SHIFT, and the pitch clock I think is a NEEDED change, and will be good for the game. Can’t wait.