Giving up 28 today = We are sellers

[JDavis76]

Clay Holmes has a 4.01 career ERA, it was 5.57 with the Pirates.

 

Does he suck too?

 

Last I checked 4.01 is far better than 5.06.......

[Maxbialystock]

My Red Sox player of the year candidate, the embodiment of what I think they have accomplished this season, is the guy with the big necklace, Alex Verdugo!! To me nothing represents the Sox unprofessionalism this year more than that necklace.

 

Let me hasten to add that I also think there are plenty of players on this team who are in fact trying hard. There also some who hit the ball well or pitch the ball well--and a few who are not bad on defense. But, when I compare them to, say, the Tampa Bay Rays, I see a significance difference in overall professionalism.

 

And what astounds me about that comparison to the Rays is that the latter play in the worst ballpark in MLB which rightfully discourages fans from coming to games played by a very watchable home team.

 

These Sox are so spoiled it's sickening, and the biggest brat is Verdugo. Vazquez with his insane baserunning ain't far behind.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

Clay Holmes has a 4.01 career ERA, it was 5.57 with the Pirates.

 

Does he suck too?

 

Holmes:

5.57 with PIT

1.39 with NYY (a 4.18 disparity)

 

Pivetta:

5.50 with PHI

4.42 with BOS (a 1.08 disparity)

 

Who is fooling who?

[moonslav59]

My Red Sox player of the year candidate, the embodiment of what I think they have accomplished this season, is the guy with the big necklace, Alex Verdugo!! To me nothing represents the Sox unprofessionalism this year more than that necklace.

 

Let me hasten to add that I also think there are plenty of players on this team who are in fact trying hard. There also some who hit the ball well or pitch the ball well--and a few who are not bad on defense. But, when I compare them to, say, the Tampa Bay Rays, I see a significance difference in overall professionalism.

 

And what astounds me about that comparison to the Rays is that the latter play in the worst ballpark in MLB which rightfully discourages fans from coming to games played by a very watchable home team.

 

These Sox are so spoiled it's sickening, and the biggest brat is Verdugo. Vazquez with his insane baserunning ain't far behind.

 

Verdugo's misplay on that ball hit to the wall, yesterday, reminded me of Mike Greenwell. I used to think trading Duran makes some sense. Now, I might prefer we trade Dugo. One of these Left Field only players should not be here, next year.

 

Keepers:

 

Everyday

Devers (Forevers! PLEASE!)

Story SS/2B (kinda have to)

Refsnyder (we have no very good OF'ers)

Borderline: Duran

 

Pitchers

Whitlock (obviously)

Houck (despite the vax debacle)

Pivetta (as a 4/5 starter)

Winckowski (near borderline)

Schreiber (could still have just been a flash)

Bello (on promise, only)

Crawford (near borderline)

Sale (because we have to)

Borderline: None

 

This list does not include prospects.

[Bellhorn04]

Last I checked 4.01 is far better than 5.06.......

 

Relievers generally have lower ERA's. Have to explain everything, I guess.

 

Anyway, as far as you're concerned, Holmes is obviously a blind squirrel.

[Maxbialystock]

Verdugo's misplay on that ball hit to the wall, yesterday, reminded me of Mike Greenwell. I used to think trading Duran makes some sense. Now, I might prefer we trade Dugo. One of these Left Field only players should not be here, next year.

 

Keepers:

 

Everyday

Devers (Forevers! PLEASE!)

Story SS/2B (kinda have to)

Refsnyder (we have no very good OF'ers)

Borderline: Duran

 

Pitchers

Whitlock (obviously)

Houck (despite the vax debacle)

Pivetta (as a 4/5 starter)

Winckowski (near borderline)

Schreiber (could still have just been a flash)

Bello (on promise, only)

Crawford (near borderline)

Sale (because we have to)

Borderline: None

 

This list does not include prospects.

 

My gosh!!! I thought I was the only one who noticed the misplay. It also bugs me that he invariably has some kind of deliberate decision-making process when he hits the ball, so much so that he never, ever immediately starts running hard to 1b. I'm guessing some coach somewhere told him he only has so many sprints in him and to conserve his energy. Even on grounders, he first calculates whether it's got a chance of getting through. If not, it's "brakes on, chaps!" With Dugo, sauntering is in, busting your butt ain't.

[moonslav59]

Relievers generally have lower ERA's. Have to explain everything, I guess.

 

Anyway, as far as you're concerned, Holmes is obviously a blind squirrel.

 

Note the ERAs before changing teams:

 

5.57 Holmes

5.50 Pivetta

 

I'm so happy to know Holmes will revert back to sucking at any moment!

 

[Bellhorn04]

Note the ERAs before changing teams:

 

5.57 Holmes

5.50 Pivetta

 

I'm so happy to know Holmes will revert back to sucking at any moment!

 

 

True, it's kind of a relief!

[Maxbialystock]

Verdugo's misplay on that ball hit to the wall, yesterday, reminded me of Mike Greenwell. I used to think trading Duran makes some sense. Now, I might prefer we trade Dugo. One of these Left Field only players should not be here, next year.

 

Keepers:

 

Everyday

Devers (Forevers! PLEASE!)

Story SS/2B (kinda have to)

Refsnyder (we have no very good OF'ers)

Borderline: Duran

 

Pitchers

Whitlock (obviously)

Houck (despite the vax debacle)

Pivetta (as a 4/5 starter)

Winckowski (near borderline)

Schreiber (could still have just been a flash)

Bello (on promise, only)

Crawford (near borderline)

Sale (because we have to)

Borderline: None

 

This list does not include prospects.

 

Fascinating list. I see you left Kike off, so I looked up his salary--$8M. Last year his WAR was 4.9, so he was a bargain. WAR of 3.5 in 2018 also not bad. His career OPS is .737. He was great last year, but he turns 31 next month, and that hip has to be worrisome--to him and to Chaim Bloom.

[jad]

Say you're playing for a MLB team. You're having a good year, one of the top hitters in the league; you're a starter in the All-Star game, along with two other team-mates, both also hitting over .300; everyone outside the immediate organization says you are someone to build around. One of the best players in the league. Yet you have no serious contract offer and everyone within the organization or around it (owners, fans, commentators) talk of nothing but the trade deadline and how you, along with one or both of the other two, need to be traded. Why would you or ANYONE want to play for an organization like that?

[Bellhorn04]

Say you're playing for a MLB team. You're having a good year, one of the top hitters in the league; you're a starter in the All-Star game, along with two other team-mates, both also hitting over .300; everyone outside the immediate organization says you are someone to build around. One of the best players in the league. Yet you have no serious contract offer and everyone within the organization or around it (owners, fans, commentators) talk of nothing but the trade deadline and how you, along with one or both of the other two, need to be traded. Why would you or ANYONE want to play for an organization like that?

 

Look, Xander signed a 6 year contract with an opt out after Year 3. He's a big boy, he knew the opt out could make him a lot more money. He didn't put that in the contract out of the kindness of his heart. It has worked out well for him.

 

No need to break out the crying towels.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My Red Sox player of the year candidate, the embodiment of what I think they have accomplished this season, is the guy with the big necklace, Alex Verdugo!! To me nothing represents the Sox unprofessionalism this year more than that necklace.

 

Let me hasten to add that I also think there are plenty of players on this team who are in fact trying hard. There also some who hit the ball well or pitch the ball well--and a few who are not bad on defense. But, when I compare them to, say, the Tampa Bay Rays, I see a significance difference in overall professionalism.

 

And what astounds me about that comparison to the Rays is that the latter play in the worst ballpark in MLB which rightfully discourages fans from coming to games played by a very watchable home team.

 

These Sox are so spoiled it's sickening, and the biggest brat is Verdugo. Vazquez with his insane baserunning ain't far behind.

 

This 'professionalism' you continually repeat may have something to do with Kevin Cash. IMHO, the best manager in the AL.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My Red Sox player of the year candidate, the embodiment of what I think they have accomplished this season, is the guy with the big necklace, Alex Verdugo!! To me nothing represents the Sox unprofessionalism this year more than that necklace.

 

Let me hasten to add that I also think there are plenty of players on this team who are in fact trying hard. There also some who hit the ball well or pitch the ball well--and a few who are not bad on defense. But, when I compare them to, say, the Tampa Bay Rays, I see a significance difference in overall professionalism.

 

And what astounds me about that comparison to the Rays is that the latter play in the worst ballpark in MLB which rightfully discourages fans from coming to games played by a very watchable home team.

 

These Sox are so spoiled it's sickening, and the biggest brat is Verdugo. Vazquez with his insane baserunning ain't far behind.

 

The 3 & 4 batters in the SOX line-up have a combined total of 16 HR's and 75 RBI and yet you go after Dugo and VAZ. How convenient.

[Bellhorn04]

The 3 & 4 batters in the SOX line-up have a combined total of 16 HR's and 75 RBI and yet you go after Dugo and VAZ. How convenient.

 

But he was talking about professionalism, not production.

[notin]

Why would we trust Bloom to buy at the deadline when he wouldn't buy at the liveline? The team was very much alive preseason through June when he wouldn't add a closer, an outfielder who could hit, and a big league first baseman.

 

Add all those things from who?

 

And it has been pointed out, we had all of them to start the season.

 

Players do struggle and have bad seasons, but that doesn’t mean all the other teams will step up and make other options available.

[notin]

Look, Xander signed a 6 year contract with an opt out after Year 3. He's a big boy, he knew the opt out could make him a lot more money. He didn't put that in the contract out of the kindness of his heart. It has worked out well for him.

 

No need to break out the crying towels.

 

Not to mention we really don’t know the reality of the current contract situation…

[notin]

Last I checked 4.01 is far better than 5.06.......

 

Last I checked this isn’t an answer to the question you were asked…

[JDavis76]

Relievers generally have lower ERA's. Have to explain everything, I guess.

 

No, better pitchers generally have lower ERA's. Have to explain everything, I guess.

 

Anyway, as far as you're concerned, Holmes is obviously a blind squirrel.

 

That remains to be seen......

[cp176]

Look, Xander signed a 6 year contract with an opt out after Year 3. He's a big boy, he knew the opt out could make him a lot more money. He didn't put that in the contract out of the kindness of his heart. It has worked out well for him.

 

No need to break out the crying towels.

 

I have heard the word professionalism mentioned here once or twice. Obviously it means different things to different people. The first offer made by ownership (if it is to be believed) to Devers smacked of unprofessionalism by ownership in my estimation. I do not think that they will wind up keeping him. That being the case, many lifelong fans are going to be deeply disappointed.

[JDavis76]

Last I checked this isn’t an answer to the question you were asked…

 

A 4.01 ERA is mediocre, a 5.06 sucks.

 

There, does that answer the question?

[illinoisredsox]

He was great for 11 games from May 7 to June 29, 74 innings, 1.95 ERA.

 

Just saying "he sucks" is stupid.

 

Consider the source and why are you engaging him?

[JDavis76]

Note the ERAs before changing teams:

 

5.57 Holmes

5.50 Pivetta

 

I'm so happy to know Holmes will revert back to sucking at any moment!

 

 

I'm so happy that you have run up the white flag and are now working on your 2023 Unrealistic thread....

[Hitch]

Look, Xander signed a 6 year contract with an opt out after Year 3. He's a big boy, he knew the opt out could make him a lot more money. He didn't put that in the contract out of the kindness of his heart. It has worked out well for him.

 

No need to break out the crying towels.

 

While I agree with you, Jad's point isn't without merit.

 

We didn't keep Mookie. We're not going to re-sign Bogey. If Devers is let go too, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

 

I was (and am) all for resetting the way things are done after the money we've wasted on terrible contracts this last decade, but man, we're losing some huge talent along this journey.

 

I like Story, but will never be happy that his signing meant X was a goner.

[notin]

A 4.01 ERA is mediocre, a 5.06 sucks.

 

There, does that answer the question?

 

Yes but incorrectly.

 

A 4.01 ERA for a starter is mediocre. (Actually it’s pretty good.) A 4.01 ERA is not mediocre for a short reliever and certainly not for a closer.

[JDavis76]

Yes but incorrectly.

 

A 4.01 ERA for a starter is mediocre. (Actually it’s pretty good.) A 4.01 ERA is not mediocre for a short reliever and certainly not for a closer.

 

Well, that isn't his ERA as a closer, is it?

 

And 5.06 sucks no matter how you slice it.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, that isn't his ERA as a closer, is it?

 

And 5.06 sucks no matter how you slice it.

 

And Holmes is mediocre, the way you slice it.

[JDavis76]

And Holmes is mediocre, the way you slice it.

 

True, until a larger sample size proves otherwise.

 

But he has made the All Star team, has pivetta?

[jad]

I have heard the word professionalism mentioned here once or twice. Obviously it means different things to different people. The first offer made by ownership (if it is to be believed) to Devers smacked of unprofessionalism by ownership in my estimation. I do not think that they will wind up keeping him. That being the case, many lifelong fans are going to be deeply disappointed.

 

And, as a commentator noted today, getting rid of Bogey, whom Devers looks up to, isn't going to help. Better get used to what we saw last night.

[Maxbialystock]

I have heard the word professionalism mentioned here once or twice. Obviously it means different things to different people. The first offer made by ownership (if it is to be believed) to Devers smacked of unprofessionalism by ownership in my estimation. I do not think that they will wind up keeping him. That being the case, many lifelong fans are going to be deeply disappointed.

 

Top salaries are insanely risky for owners/GM's because the money is guaranteed no matter what and for a long time. Juan Soto, age 23, just sneered at the incredibly low offer of $420M--barely a living wage--from the Nationals. You think Raffy's agent--who only gets a percentage of what Raffy gets--isn't whispering in his ear that $500M is within reach?

[jad]

Top salaries are insanely risky for owners/GM's because the money is guaranteed no matter what and for a long time. Juan Soto, age 23, just sneered at the incredibly low offer of $420M--barely a living wage--from the Nationals. You think Raffy's agent--who only gets a percentage of what Raffy gets--isn't whispering in his ear that $500M is within reach?

 

So? If that's what other teams are willing to pay, then that's his market value, risk and all. If the RS economic theory involves not paying market value for players, then we can expect a lot more Bloomian games like last night.