A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Tedballgame]

On a bright note, the Skankees are one game from elimination.

[Old Red]

How many prospect trades will Bloom agree to make, this winter?

 

I'm thinking twisting his arm for one may be a stretch. My hopes were the "one" would be for a solid pitcher.

 

Moree and more, I'm thinking I need to lower my hopes for 2023.

Giving up on 2023 already?If Bloom can’t put a team on the field that gets in the postseason in 2023 then let’s get someone who can.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have bounced back from four last-place finishes over the past decade or so but the current challenges may be even more daunting.

 

Should be a fascinating year or two.

 

A lot depends on JH's willingness to spend, perhaps more and for longer than he has ever done before.

 

So far, we have never gone over the tax line for 3 years in a row.

 

We have rarely gone way over in any single year, either, and when we did, we almost immediately reset, the next year.

 

In our current situation, our hopes in 2024 are better than 2023, assuming we extend Devers, but if we don't reset in 2023, then 2024 will be the third year penalty year. It's a mess that was created, needlessly by not resetting, this year.

 

JH will almost certainly have to break a long-standing policy in 2023 or 2024. I'm not so sure he will.

 

[moonslav59]

Giving up on 2023 already?If Bloom can’t put a team on the field that gets in the postseason in 2023 then let’s get someone who can.

 

Can you stop the strawman crap?

 

Honestly, it is getting very tiring.

 

1. I'm not giving up on 2023.

2. It has nothing to do with Bloom. It's about JH deciding to break a long-standing policy or not.

3. I think we can put a better team on the field in 2023. I have never come close to even hinting we cannot, so please stop.

 

I doubt we can win a ring in 2023 without a major change in spending policy and/or the sacrifice of more of the farm than it seems we have been willing to do since the Nate trade in 2018, but I do think we can compete for the playoffs and greatly improve on the 2022 record. Nowhere have I ever said or implied differently, yet you continue to invent false positions b y others and rant and rave against them.

 

STOP!

[Old Red]

Can you stop the strawman crap?

 

Honestly, it is getting very tiring.

 

1. I'm not giving up on 2023.

2. It has nothing to do with Bloom. It's about JH deciding to break a long-standing policy or not.

3. I think we can put a better team on the field in 2023. I have never come close to even hinting we cannot, so please stop.

 

I doubt we can win a ring in 2023 without a major change in spending policy and/or the sacrifice of more of the farm than it seems we have been willing to do since the Nate trade in 2018, but I do think we can compete for the playoffs and greatly improve on the 2022 record. Nowhere have I ever said or implied differently, yet you continue to invent false positions b y others and rant and rave against them.

 

STOP!

Anything less than getting into the postseason in 2023 to me will be a failure. Big market team with a big market payroll. I think you worry more about JH payroll, or reset, or all the other things you have called than he does, and that is tiring to some also.

[Old Red]

A lot depends on JH's willingness to spend, perhaps more and for longer than he has ever done before.

 

So far, we have never gone over the tax line for 3 years in a row.

 

We have rarely gone way over in any single year, either, and when we did, we almost immediately reset, the next year.

 

In our current situation, our hopes in 2024 are better than 2023, assuming we extend Devers, but if we don't reset in 2023, then 2024 will be the third year penalty year. It's a mess that was created, needlessly by not resetting, this year.

 

JH will almost certainly have to break a long-standing policy in 2023 or 2024. I'm not so sure he will.

 

 

And like I keep telling you that lots of fans out there don’t care, or worry about all this stuff that you do, and WL records are what they care about in the here, and now, and not what might happen in 2024, or 2025.

[moonslav59]

And like I keep telling you that lots of fans out there don’t care, or worry about all this stuff that you do, and WL records are what they care about in the here, and now, and not what might happen in 2024, or 2025.

 

That doesn't address why you make up positions I don't hold.

 

BTW, I know full well that a ton of fans don't care about the reality of the situation. You don't have to keep telling me, like I don't understand.

 

Not agreeing and not understanding are two different things.

[moonslav59]

Anything less than getting into the postseason in 2023 to me will be a failure. Big market team with a big market payroll. I think you worry more about JH payroll, or reset, or all the other things you have called than he does, and that is tiring to some also.

 

Fine. It's tiring to you, as your repeating your position is to me, but why go and invent positions others don't hold?

 

You do it often and have been called out for it, many times. It really serves no purpose.

[notin]

And like I keep telling you that lots of fans out there don’t care, or worry about all this stuff that you do, and WL records are what they care about in the here, and now, and not what might happen in 2024, or 2025.

 

Apparently he didn’t care what those complete strangers think. I suppose when not making Strawman/Old Red arguments, telling other people their opinions don’t matter while yours do is your only other tactic…

[Old Red]

That doesn't address why you make up positions I don't hold.

 

BTW, I know full well that a ton of fans don't care about the reality of the situation. You don't have to keep telling me, like I don't understand.

 

Not agreeing and not understanding are two different things.

And not caring is another.

[moonslav59]

And not caring is another.

 

You don't care about inventing false positions by others?

 

I guess that explains why it continues.

[Old Red]

Fine. It's tiring to you, as your repeating your position is to me, but why go and invent positions others don't hold?

 

You do it often and have been called out for it, many times. It really serves no purpose.

 

Because you call someone out doesn’t mean much of anything. You’ve been calling out fans all season long with your crybaby comments among many other things, because they don’t agree with how things are going, or not going with the Red Sox, and that serves No purpose either.

[moonslav59]

Because you call someone out doesn’t mean much of anything. You’ve been calling out fans all season long with your crybaby comments among many other things, because they don’t agree with how things are going, or not going with the Red Sox, and that serves No purpose either.

 

Obviously, it does no good with you.

 

You will continue arguing against strawmen and avoid actually addressing that situation. Deflect all you want.

 

Yes, I debate those who disagree. It's part of what this site is about. I don't pretend I'm better than they are.

 

I don't make up lies about what others believe. If I misstate or misunderstand someone's opinion, I apologize.

 

[Old Red]

Obviously, it does no good with you.

 

You will continue arguing against strawmen and avoid actually addressing that situation. Deflect all you want.

 

Yes, I debate those who disagree. It's part of what this site is about. I don't pretend I'm better than they are.

 

I don't make up lies about what others believe. If I misstate or misunderstand someone's opinion, I apologize.

 

Calling fans crybabies, which you have done more than once among other things is what this site is about?

[harmony]

Notify me when the discussion returns to baseball.

[moonslav59]

Calling fans crybabies, which you have done more than once among other things is what this site is about?

 

Why not?

 

I guess I could have worded it differently, but it was clear what my message was. It was a valid argument and still is.

 

At least I'm not lying about what others are saying.

Edited October 16, 2022 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

You two are like a pair of Rock'M Sock'M Robots. By now you both pretty much know what the other one is going to say, but you keep at it anyway.

[Old Red]

Why not?

 

I guess I could have worded it differently, but it was clear what my message was. It was a valid argument and still is.

 

At least I'm not lying about what others are saying.

 

Why do you have to call other fans anything at all? Lying? I asked a simple question if you had given up on 2023, and you jumped from there, and as usual over analyzed. You have a valid argument about what? You can lower your expectations for 2023, but I am going to wait to see what kind of moves are made in the offseason. I don’t have any faith in Bloom, and starting with resigning Kike was not a good start to me, but outside of that nothing has happened yet to see what expectations there should will be.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Old Red

[Nick]

Dodgers with CBT payroll of $302M fail to reach NL championship series despite winning 111 games.

 

They won the make belief 2020 championship.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Dodgers with CBT payroll of $302M fail to reach NL championship series despite winning 111 games.

 

They won the make belief 2020 championship.

 

The 2018 SOX won a total of 119 games. The 2022 Dodgers won a total of 112 games. Hopefully, the 2022 Yankems will win a total of 100 games.

Edited October 16, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dodgers with CBT payroll of $302M fail to reach NL championship series despite winning 111 games.

 

They won the make belief 2020 championship.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hern-ndez-blame-andrew-friedmans-064220812.html

 

Interesting take from the LA Times. Choice quotes: "What the Dodgers are doing with their pitching isn’t working.

 

Any review of the Dodgers’ failure starts with the organization’s overarching philosophy implemented by Friedman that devalues starting pitching and calls for the use of an assembly line of relievers.

 

This is an industry-wide trend, and it works — to a degree.

 

The Dodgers have taken this concept to an extreme, as their management apparatus has demonstrated an inclination to stick with their pregame script rather than allow a starter who is performing well to pitch an extra inning or two.

 

They can’t continue scripting pitching matchups for entire games.

 

They can’t remove a starter when he's pitching well just because they decided to do so beforehand."

 

From this perspective on the postseason, those that hope Bloom can be a future Friedman might rethink the hope...

[Nick]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hern-ndez-blame-andrew-friedmans-064220812.html

 

Interesting take from the LA Times. Choice quotes: "What the Dodgers are doing with their pitching isn’t working.

 

Any review of the Dodgers’ failure starts with the organization’s overarching philosophy implemented by Friedman that devalues starting pitching and calls for the use of an assembly line of relievers.

 

This is an industry-wide trend, and it works — to a degree.

 

The Dodgers have taken this concept to an extreme, as their management apparatus has demonstrated an inclination to stick with their pregame script rather than allow a starter who is performing well to pitch an extra inning or two.

 

They can’t continue scripting pitching matchups for entire games.

 

They can’t remove a starter when he's pitching well just because they decided to do so beforehand."

 

From this perspective on the postseason, those that hope Bloom can be a future Friedman might rethink the hope...

 

Luckily we don't have enough good relievers to implement this tactic any time soon. lol

[notin]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hern-ndez-blame-andrew-friedmans-064220812.html

 

Interesting take from the LA Times. Choice quotes: "What the Dodgers are doing with their pitching isn’t working.

 

Any review of the Dodgers’ failure starts with the organization’s overarching philosophy implemented by Friedman that devalues starting pitching and calls for the use of an assembly line of relievers.

 

This is an industry-wide trend, and it works — to a degree.

 

The Dodgers have taken this concept to an extreme, as their management apparatus has demonstrated an inclination to stick with their pregame script rather than allow a starter who is performing well to pitch an extra inning or two.

 

They can’t continue scripting pitching matchups for entire games.

 

They can’t remove a starter when he's pitching well just because they decided to do so beforehand."

 

From this perspective on the postseason, those that hope Bloom can be a future Friedman might rethink the hope...

 

 

His postseason fell apart this year, but you should not deny he is still one of the most successful execs in the game. Think about it - they’re being labeled failures and picked apart for losing in the NLDS.. How much of that is because this is the first time they’ve failed to reach the NLCS since 2014 and only the second time since 2012.

 

Is that somehow interpreted as failure now?

 

Granted they do have a bloated payroll, and that will catch up with them very soon…

[dgalehouse]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hern-ndez-blame-andrew-friedmans-064220812.html

 

Interesting take from the LA Times. Choice quotes: "What the Dodgers are doing with their pitching isn’t working.

 

Any review of the Dodgers’ failure starts with the organization’s overarching philosophy implemented by Friedman that devalues starting pitching and calls for the use of an assembly line of relievers.

 

This is an industry-wide trend, and it works — to a degree.

 

The Dodgers have taken this concept to an extreme, as their management apparatus has demonstrated an inclination to stick with their pregame script rather than allow a starter who is performing well to pitch an extra inning or two.

 

They can’t continue scripting pitching matchups for entire games.

 

They can’t remove a starter when he's pitching well just because they decided to do so beforehand."

 

From this perspective on the postseason, those that hope Bloom can be a future Friedman might rethink the hope...

 

I think that gets back to the question ; How many of the in - game moves are the manager's decision and how many are dictated by the front office ? As to the Dodgers , they had a great season , but the Padres are a dangerous team and the playoffs are definitely a crapshoot.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

His postseason fell apart this year, but you should not deny he is still one of the most successful execs in the game. Think about it - they’re being labeled failures and picked apart for losing in the NLDS.. How much of that is because this is the first time they’ve failed to reach the NLCS since 2014 and only the second time since 2012.

 

Is that somehow interpreted as failure now?

 

Granted they do have a bloated payroll, and that will catch up with them very soon…

 

The writer isn't saying LA's regular seasons are failures, but is questioning following rigid blueprints in the postseason, when situations continually change and often require modifications. Sometimes, those involve not making changes.

 

Every time a new reliever enters the game there is a chance the new guy won't have it that night. That's what makes the Astros-Ms 18-inning game so amazing: 17 pitchers, and none of them choked -- only four BBs in the entire "doubleheader," including two by starter McCullers... one walk by Seattle pitchers in 18 innings.

[Nick]

One world series title in last eight years for Dodgers who has made the playoffs every year. They are the Atlanta Braves of 1990's.

 

I hope they never win another title as long as Betts is there. Yep, I said it.

 

Hell we went further last year in the playoffs than the Dodgers who spent $302M to win 111 games. We spent measly $234M.

 

Only one team will celebrate and as long as it's not the Yankees, I'm good.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Nick

[Nick]

Back to 2023

 

I will give JD credit. His OPS was 3rd among all the DH. Xander lead the shortstops. Devers I believe was in top 5.

 

Let's hope Story can stay healthy and cut down on his strikeouts.

 

Our outfield needs to give us better production.

 

Would love to see starting pitcher #1 and starting pitcher #2 signed this offseason. That ought to do it.

[moonslav59]

Back to 2023

 

I will give JD credit. His OPS was 3rd among all the DH. Xander lead the shortstops. Devers I believe was in top 5.

 

Let's hope Story can stay healthy and cut down on his strikeouts.

 

Our outfield needs to give us better production.

 

Would love to see starting pitcher #1 and starting pitcher #2 signed this offseason. That ought to do it.

 

It's not going to be easy, but I think we can build a winning team for 2023 while also improving out longer term outlook, at the same time.

 

That seems to be the goal, anyway.

[Old Red]

It's not going to be easy, but I think we can build a winning team for 2023 while also improving out longer term outlook, at the same time.

 

That seems to be the goal, anyway.

 

If Bloom is the man for the job as some of the posters on here think he is then building a winning team that gets into the postseason should be accomplished, but on the other hand if Bloom is not the man for the job as some poster think then that will show itself also. Easy, or hard that’s what Bloom gets the big bucks for to put a winning competitive team on the field. At least that’s the company line from Kennedy. Driving the sanitation truck from cities to cities to look for diamonds in the rough won’t be enough.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's not going to be easy, but I think we can build a winning team for 2023 while also improving out longer term outlook, at the same time.

 

That seems to be the goal, anyway.

 

Building a winning team and making meaningful progress towards a title are two separate things. You would probably benefit from another down year in the long run while the Yanks, Jays and Rays are in window. Because Bloom didn't blow it up, the sox did not get the bang for the buck they needed at the deadline in terms of long term prospects capable of making a big impact. There are so many holes for the sox and with Bloom at the helm and Henry running things, I doubt they fill them all with top free agents. You are gonna need some bargain basement guys to work out or some prospects to rocket through. I don't think the 2022 season was especially kind to some of the prospects who you needed to make a jump. Yorke for example, fell back to the guy we all thought he was before his big breakout 2021. For 2022, the only tremendously above average players manning positions are Story and Devers. The other guys are maybe above replacement level, but not above an average regular like Verdugo and Kike (albeit barring a return to his career year of 2021). So you're not starting with a strong foundation to build around. And considering Devers is heading into his final year, you may not have the cornerstone of your lineup when the rest of the guys rise either. It is far easier to flesh out a team when the core is intact than it is to build a core. This is why the Yanks cannot let Judge leave. He is the straw that stirs the drink