A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Old Red]

A possibility, yes. A prized prospect, no.

 

Do you think they should even be thought of as possibilities on any major league club?

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think they should even be thought of as possibilities on any major league club?

 

Probably not. Downs has some pop and he has speed and he will take some walks. But if he can't cut way down on his K's somehow, he's not an MLB player.

[Old Red]

Probably not. Downs has some pop and he has speed and he will take some walks. But if he can't cut way down on his K's somehow, he's not an MLB player.

 

Agree.

[Hugh2]

I think Downs ceiling is a utility guy, maybe if his hit tool ever develops and/or he can cut down on the K's he could be a division 2 starter for a few years in his prime. Right now he's looking more like an organizational guy, an emergency up/down type. I think Wong can be a good defensive back up catcher, which isn't the sexiest profile but that's still something you need on your roster and hes' going to end up returning more value to this club than Downs between the two prospects received in the Betts trade.

[notin]

Probably not. Downs has some pop and he has speed and he will take some walks. But if he can't cut way down on his K's somehow, he's not an MLB player.

 

He has a really good arm, too.

 

I think he has MLB talent, and if players like Kevin Newman, Geraldo Perdormo and Nicky Lopez are MLB starters, he can at least attain that level. He’s probably best used in a utility role, however…

[moonslav59]

I think Downs ceiling is a utility guy, maybe if his hit tool ever develops and/or he can cut down on the K's he could be a division 2 starter for a few years in his prime. Right now he's looking more like an organizational guy, an emergency up/down type. I think Wong can be a good defensive back up catcher, which isn't the sexiest profile but that's still something you need on your roster and hes' going to end up returning more value to this club than Downs between the two prospects received in the Betts trade.

 

Agreed. There is a slight chance he could stick as a starter, somewhere, but I think it is doubtful, unless he can improve his bat- power? OBP? BA?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Since this board and most of Red Sox Nation is blasting Bloom these week, this dawned on me: before the deadline, were there ever any players acquired or promoted the past three years to be regulars at their actual pre-Sox positions... or was Chaim and his boys always focused on outsmahting other front offices?

 

I got Renfroe for RF... all the rest were so versatile in their utility, the Sox contrived new spots for them: Dalbec, Chavis, Pillar, Kike, Marwin, Franchy, Schwarber, Iglesias, Story, Verdugo, Bradley (shifting outfield slots isn't abnormal, but three or four guys a year?)... I'm not counting Vazquez filling in at first or second out of desperation.

[notin]

Since this board and most of Red Sox Nation is blasting Bloom these week, this dawned on me: before the deadline, were there ever any players acquired or promoted the past three years to be regulars at their actual pre-Sox positions... or was Chaim and his boys always focused on outsmahting other front offices?

 

I got Renfroe for RF... all the rest were so versatile in their utility, the Sox contrived new spots for them: Dalbec, Chavis, Pillar, Kike, Marwin, Franchy, Schwarber, Iglesias, Story, Verdugo, Bradley (shifting outfield slots isn't abnormal, but three or four guys a year?)... I'm not counting Vazquez filling in at first or second out of desperation.

 

 

Isn’t some of this on Cora?

 

The guy was using Vazquez as a 2b man long before Bloom arrived…

[Old Red]

Isn’t some of this on Cora?

 

The guy was using Vazquez as a 2b man long before Bloom arrived…

 

My biggest blame on Cora this season was to not put Houck, or Whitlock especially into the late innings role way before he did. There were losses to me early in that 10-19 start that could have been prevented. I don’t know who’s brain storm it was for Arroyo in RF, and Franchy at 1B, but that wasn’t good either.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Old Red

[Nick]

Time to construct next year's position roster. Based on Bloom's History.

 

Pham signed a one year deal for $7.5M ($6M plus $1.5M mutual buyout). Assuming the 'mutual option' is agreed on, he's on board in 2023 for $6M. To me this is no brainer. Bloom will want him. Obviously Pham can decline and look for a better deal (unlikely)

 

Howser too can opt out or stay with the Sox for 3 more years. His contract was front loaded. After earning $20M per year for 5 years, he will be getting only $13M for last three years of his eight year contract.

 

Not sure if anyone is willing pay him more than 3year/$39M.

 

Again, this trade is Bloomisque. Padres will pay all but the league minimum. Howser can occupy 1B until Casas is brought up, then become our DH.

 

C

1B Howser/Dalbec

2B Story

SS

3B Devers

LF Pham

CF Duran

RF Verdugo

DH Howser/Dalbec

 

This is the most logical approach in my mind thinking like Bloom.

 

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE...go after Aaron Judge. Why NOT go after Cubs catcher? We may have young guns in our farm but our young bats are two or three years away.

 

Note on Xander.

 

People on board rightfully speak about 'going rate' when looking at pay scale for players.

 

Xander has the second highest OPS, .825, but the traditional measuring stick is not very good in my book, 9 HR and 47 RBI. On what planet, if the name Xander was not attached to it, would anyone give him $30M annual salary, especially in light of his defensive metrics?

 

One can say well the Twins gave Correa, 3 year $35M per annum deal with giving HIM the opt out option after first two years. I don't see Henry being okay with Bloom saying well, sir, Correa got 3 year $105M deal. But 13HR, 37RBI, .767 OPS deserve $35M? I don't give freak about the going rate when its above $25M. I'm ready to move on from Xander.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Nick

[JDavis76]

Time to construct next year's position roster. Based on Bloom's History.

 

Pham signed a one year deal for $7.5M ($6M plus $1.5M mutual buyout). Assuming the 'mutual option' is agreed on, he's on board in 2023 for $6M. To me this is no brainer. Bloom will want him. Obviously Pham can decline and look for a better deal (unlikely)

 

Howser too can opt out or stay with the Sox for 3 more years. His contract was front loaded. After earning $20M per year for 5 years, he will be getting only $13M for last three years of his eight year contract.

 

Not sure if anyone is willing pay him more than 3year/$39M.

 

Again, this trade is Bloomisque. Padres will pay all but the league minimum. Howser can occupy 1B until Casas is brought up, then become our DH.

 

C

1B Howser/Dalbec

2B Story

SS

3B Devers

LF Pham

CF Duran

RF Verdugo

DH Howser/Dalbec

 

This is the most logical approach in mind thinking like Bloom.

 

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE...go after Aaron Judge.

 

Note on Xander.

 

People on board rightfully speak about 'going rate' when looking at pay scale for players.

 

Xander has the second highest OPS, .825, but the traditional measuring stick is not very good in my book, 9 HR and 47 RBI. On what planet, if the name Xander was not attached to it, would anyone give him $30M annual salary, especially in light of his defensive metrics?

 

One can say well the Twins gave Correa, 3 year $35M per annum deal with giving HIM the opt out option after first two years. I don't see Henry being okay with Bloom saying well, sir, Correa got 3 year $105M deal. I'm ready to move on from Xander.

 

To my knowledge, Dick Howser has never played 1B in his career.

 

Combine that with the fact that he's been dead since 1987 and I don't think he would be a very good option for first next year.

 

But given what bloom has trotted out there this year, who knows?!!

[notin]

To my knowledge, Dick Howser has never played 1B in his career.

 

Combine that with the fact that he's been dead since 1987 and I don't think he would be a very good option for first next year.

 

But given what bloom has trotted out there this year, who knows?!!

 

Dead or not, I take Howser over Franchy at 1b…

[notin]

Time to construct next year's position roster. Based on Bloom's History.

 

Pham signed a one year deal for $7.5M ($6M plus $1.5M mutual buyout). Assuming the 'mutual option' is agreed on, he's on board in 2023 for $6M. To me this is no brainer. Bloom will want him. Obviously Pham can decline and look for a better deal (unlikely)

 

Howser too can opt out or stay with the Sox for 3 more years. His contract was front loaded. After earning $20M per year for 5 years, he will be getting only $13M for last three years of his eight year contract.

 

Not sure if anyone is willing pay him more than 3year/$39M.

 

Again, this trade is Bloomisque. Padres will pay all but the league minimum. Howser can occupy 1B until Casas is brought up, then become our DH.

 

C

1B Howser/Dalbec

2B Story

SS

3B Devers

LF Pham

CF Duran

RF Verdugo

DH Howser/Dalbec

 

This is the most logical approach in my mind thinking like Bloom.

 

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE...go after Aaron Judge. Why NOT go after Cubs catcher? We may have young guns in our farm but our young bats are two or three years away.

 

Note on Xander.

 

People on board rightfully speak about 'going rate' when looking at pay scale for players.

 

Xander has the second highest OPS, .825, but the traditional measuring stick is not very good in my book, 9 HR and 47 RBI. On what planet, if the name Xander was not attached to it, would anyone give him $30M annual salary, especially in light of his defensive metrics?

 

One can say well the Twins gave Correa, 3 year $35M per annum deal with giving HIM the opt out option after first two years. I don't see Henry being okay with Bloom saying well, sir, Correa got 3 year $105M deal. But 13HR, 37RBI, .767 OPS deserve $35M? I don't give freak about the going rate when its above $25M. I'm ready to move on from Xander.

 

1. Judge is unlikely to be available. But he hasn’t signed anything yet.

2. Judge turned down 7 years $213 mill from NYY. So he clearly wants more

3. Judge has topped 112 games twice in 6 years. Granted he should make it a third next week. (2020 was only 60 games so he obviously couldn’t play in 112, but he only did play in 28 so I’m counting it against him.)

4. Judge is 30 and had issues staying on the field in his 20s. He clearly wants to be paid until age 37, and is unlikely to be healthier than he has been.

 

I get the appeal, but these long term mega deals that pay players in their 30s for what they did in their 20s are how teams get in the type of mess the Sox are currently in.

 

If X takes $150mill for 6, he’s the far better option…

 

And get Brandon Nimmo for CF. He fills a huge need…

[notin]

Lineup wise, I’m thinking

 

C: McGuire/Wong

1b: Hosmer

2b: Story

3b: Devers

LF: ?

CF: Nimmo

RF: Verdugo

DH: JD if he accepts a QO. Casas/Dalbec if he doesn’t.

BN: Arroyo, Pham (plus Wong and Dalbec mentioned above)

 

I’d love Ramon Laureano in RF (with Verdugo returning to LF), but I don’t know what Oakland wants and I think Dave Forst finally started blocking my texts.

[Bellhorn04]

Isn’t some of this on Cora?

 

The guy was using Vazquez as a 2b man long before Bloom arrived…

 

Cora and Bloom do seem to have something in common in that they have a penchant for being experimental in a risky way...

[Old Red]

Lineup wise, I’m thinking

 

C: McGuire/Wong

1b: Hosmer

2b: Story

3b: Devers

LF: ?

CF: Nimmo

RF: Verdugo

DH: JD if he accepts a QO. Casas/Dalbec if he doesn’t.

BN: Arroyo, Pham (plus Wong and Dalbec mentioned above)

 

I’d love Ramon Laureano in RF (with Verdugo returning to LF), but I don’t know what Oakland wants and I think Dave Forst finally started blocking my texts.

 

The Catchers you mentioned are nothing, but backups at best. I can’t see anyway they offer JD anything. Who’s playing SS? Devers only if he gets resigned.

[Hugh2]

The Catchers you mentioned are nothing, but backups at best. I can’t see anyway they offer JD anything. Who’s playing SS? Devers only if he gets resigned.

 

I think they offer JD a QO because it’s one year and where are you going to get better productive DH? If the Sox want to pinch Pennie’s and it’s at the cost of upgrading the rotation I’m all for cutting the chord on JDM, but your comment eludes that Devers is a FA?!?!? Is this a mistake? Because he still has one year of team control left. Agree on the catchers, those guys are backups.

[Hugh2]

Theory. The Sox firmly believe there’s less money on the table for Bogaerts than Boras and company thought the last year. Sox fully intend to resign him but believe it’s in their interest to let him talk to other teams and see what is out there for him. He’s got too much competition.

[Old Red]

I think they offer JD a QO because it’s one year and where are you going to get better productive DH? If the Sox want to pinch Pennie’s and it’s at the cost of upgrading the rotation I’m all for cutting the chord on JDM, but your comment eludes that Devers is a FA?!?!? Is this a mistake? Because he still has one year of team control left. Agree on the catchers, those guys are backups.

JD started out the season good, but hasn’t hit much in the last month, so I differ with you on the productive DH. Devers has one more year to go, before he can become a FA, but if they are not going to resign him then they might as well trade him, so they can get a little back like Mookie, which is better than getting nothing like with Bogey.

[Hugh2]

JD started out the season good, but hasn’t hit much in the last month, so I differ with you on the productive DH. Devers has one more year to go, before he can become a FA, but if they are not going to resign him then they might as well trade him, so they can get a little back like Mookie, which is better than getting nothing like with Bogey.

 

I’m open to saving the Pennies, who might fight better at the DH position?

[Bellhorn04]

Theory. The Sox firmly believe there’s less money on the table for Bogaerts than Boras and company thought the last year. Sox fully intend to resign him but believe it’s in their interest to let him talk to other teams and see what is out there for him. He’s got too much competition.

 

The shortstop market is so hard to predict.

 

Last offseason Seager got $325 million while Correa got $105 million. Did that actually make sense? Of course not. It can be totally random who cashes in and who doesn't.

[Hugh2]

True, but with many top tier SS on the market one can imagine a scenario where the price comes down a bit. No stronger force than supply and demand. Xander might take less money to play here but it’s going to be on par with what he’s being offered…I don’t think the 300 million dollar deal is there for him

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cora and Bloom do seem to have something in common in that they have a penchant for being experimental in a risky way...

 

Traditionally, the manager plays the players on the roster provided by the front office... but as he sees fit.

 

Lately -- the past decade anyway -- it seems more risky for a manager not to use the roster as the front office sees fit.

[Bellhorn04]

Traditionally, the manager plays the players on the roster provided by the front office... but as he sees fit.

 

Lately -- the past decade anyway -- it seems more risky for a manager not to use the roster as the front office sees fit.

 

Yes, tradition is pretty much out the window.

[notin]

The Catchers you mentioned are nothing, but backups at best. I can’t see anyway they offer JD anything. Who’s playing SS? Devers only if he gets resigned.

 

Bogaerts is my SS

 

I think with the cash coming off the books, re-signing Bogaerts and extending Devers makes sense.

 

I’m ok with McGuire doing the bulk of the catching as he is a very good defensive catcher

[notin]

True, but with many top tier SS on the market one can imagine a scenario where the price comes down a bit. No stronger force than supply and demand. Xander might take less money to play here but it’s going to be on par with what he’s being offered…I don’t think the 300 million dollar deal is there for him

 

I think Bogaerts payday falls between Story (6/140) and Semien (7/175). So … I’m sticking with 6/150..

[notin]

Theory. The Sox firmly believe there’s less money on the table for Bogaerts than Boras and company thought the last year. Sox fully intend to resign him but believe it’s in their interest to let him talk to other teams and see what is out there for him. He’s got too much competition.

 

Possible but risky…

[notin]

I think they offer JD a QO because it’s one year and where are you going to get better productive DH? If the Sox want to pinch Pennie’s and it’s at the cost of upgrading the rotation I’m all for cutting the chord on JDM, but your comment eludes that Devers is a FA?!?!? Is this a mistake? Because he still has one year of team control left. Agree on the catchers, those guys are backups.

 

I think JD gets one, too.

 

If he accepts, it’s a one year deal. If he declines, it’s a draft pick

[Old Red]

Bogaerts is my SS

 

I think with the cash coming off the books, re-signing Bogaerts and extending Devers makes sense.

 

I’m ok with McGuire doing the bulk of the catching as he is a very good defensive catcher

I’m all for resigning Bogey, and Raffy, but only at a good price. There is cash coming off the books, but there are plenty of holes to fill too that needs more than bargain basement pickups.

[Old Red]

I think JD gets one, too.

 

If he accepts, it’s a one year deal. If he declines, it’s a draft pick

 

Isn’t the QO like $19M?