A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

How is it “beyond critiquing” ? Is it stochastic terrorism? LOL!

 

It's my opinion that creating nicknames like "Stinkin' Winkin" after just a few IP goes beyond critiquing, but maybe you have a differing opinion.

 

I also think the negativity is severely over obsessive. Again, just my opinion, and I thought that's what this site is for- opinion giving.

 

He is not nearly as extreme as Swihart in his criticisms, but to me, he goes beyond what is acceptable. To you, obviously not.

 

Again, you guys act like you want all this to end, but you all keep stirring the pot, which is fine- just don't accuse only me of keeping it going and lastwordisms.

 

It's also one thing to misrepresent someone's position, but this guy does it repeatedly, and not just with me. Often times, he actually frames others' positions in the exact opposite light. When confronted, he doubles down and repeats. When someone knowingly states falsehoods, it's lying. It's not name calling to call it that.

 

[sk7326]

The problem with Dombrowski was all he knew how to do was spend. He never acquired a single player that made you wonder what he saw in the guy and then later thought “ohhhhh, THAT’s what Dave saw.” I suppose Ryan Brasier was the closest. It makes me think he has no baseball acumen and just knows how to stack up the star players and create massive crippling debt while emptying farms for teams. And then he gets fired and the next guy gets blamed while cleaning up the mess. It’s like he’s not only piloting that ship into an iceberg, but he also makes sure to burn all the lifeboats before impact. And then watches the captain of the incoming rescue boat get blamed.

 

Does anyone think Tigers’ fans sing his praises the way people on this board do?

 

This is a little bit unfair. Ownership hired him to build a champion - and they gave him the greenlight to do it. Indeed, Dombrowski's acumen mattered a lot - in that his job was to look at all of the Sox premium prospects and make ex ante calls on all of them. And it turned out, he was mostly right - though Moncada has been a perfectly solid starting IF and Kopech is a very good starter when healthy (which has not been often). And the two prospects he and his team decided were the real deals, he promoted them extremely aggressively. (I think Benintendi and Devers had a combined 3 days at AAA)

[mvp 78]

I’ve been in a lot of interesting debates about baseball. Yankees vs Red Sox, DiMaggio vs. Williams, Clemens vs. Pedro, even Yankee fans vs. Red Sox fans etc. I have never been a debate about who is a better fan of the same team. That doesn’t sound like a good debate. It is just silly.

 

They've been had on here going back as long as I can remember.

 

As an example, SBF's frequent use of the term "polyanna" for anyone who believed in a positive outcome that he didn't believe in. It's just a useless argument that nobody can win and only gets people angry. Name calling of players, management, etc. is more than acceptable IMO.

[mvp 78]

It's my opinion that creating nicknames like "Stinkin' Winkin" after just a few IP goes beyond critiquing, but maybe you have a differing opinion.

 

I also think the negativity is severely over obsessive. Again, just my opinion, and I thought that's what this site is for- opinion giving.

 

He is not nearly as extreme as Swihart in his criticisms, but to me, he goes beyond what is acceptable. To you, obviously not.

 

Again, you guys act like you want all this to end, but you all keep stirring the pot, which is fine- just don't accuse only me of keeping it going and lastwordisms.

 

It's also one thing to misrepresent someone's position, but this guy does it repeatedly, and not just with me. Often times, he actually frames others' positions in the exact opposite light. When confronted, he doubles down and repeats. When someone knowingly states falsehoods, it's lying. It's not name calling to call it that.

 

 

I don't think A700 is trying to stir the pot here, I think we're all trying to settle the issue and explain where we stand. Maybe come to an agreement about what is allowable? It's not like YOTN is going to log in and make a post about what we can and can't say.

 

At the very least, you're no longer fighting back and forth with Old Red so that's a good start and maybe we can move forward.

[mvp 78]

I guess they just looked at a 6 person rotation and divided up the innings. I think Bello gets more innings in the rotation and Paxton would be more likely to miss extended time.

 

I think I missed a few quotes from the end of last week the Bloom made in regards to the rotation.

 

(In regards to Paxton pitching out of the pen) “Until we get a little closer and we know exactly where he’s at, I don’t want to say anything definitively,” Bloom said. “I will say with somebody at the stage of his career that he’s at and having been through as much medically as he’s been through, adding the variable of asking to do something he hasn’t really done is something that we would have to think long and hard before doing. That doesn’t rule it out.

 

“Especially early in the season when you’re trying to build guys up the right way and especially knowing some of our guys are guys that there’s extra reason we need to take care of them, in some cases we have guys who just haven’t pitched a whole lot in recent years and we need to build them up the right way,” Bloom said. “So we will be taking care of them and protecting workloads. That’s something Alex (Cora) feels really strongly about and our medical team feels strongly about.

 

“That doesn’t mean we won’t see, potentially some creative uses of guys, but in terms of the role, that you know Brayan’s ceiling is so high that we don’t want to jerk him around. I can’t make any promises about what will happen early on in the season because I think we will if we want to take care of guys the right way. We may need to get creative here, but he he has a ceiling of a really good starting pitcher and we don’t want to get in the way of that.”

 

Are you ready for some piggybacking??? I'm not.

 

They're going to f*** it up, aren't they. Cora didn't do a great job at the start of 2019. Cora didn't do a great job managing the Whitlock/Houck dynamic in 2022.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom and Cora are certainly on the same page when it comes to using the expression " taking care of". They can't get enough of it.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora didn't do a great job at the start of 2019.

 

Restgate, eek.

 

Looking back on that, it appears that the guys Cora was trying to ease into things at the start of 2019, Sale, Price and Porcello, did indeed have serious health/decline issues, so I'm not sure any approach would have worked.

[mvp 78]

Bloom and Cora are certainly on the same page when it comes to using the expression " taking care of". They can't get enough of it.

 

They'll actually need to make it work this time. Pitchers still got hurt in 2019 AND 2022.

[mvp 78]

Restgate, eek.

 

Looking back on that, it appears that the guys Cora was trying to ease into things at the start of 2019, Sale, Price and Porcello, did indeed have serious health/decline issues, so I'm not sure any approach would have worked.

 

Eovaldi made it through all of 4 starts before he took a long nap until the end of July.

[moonslav59]

I think I missed a few quotes from the end of last week the Bloom made in regards to the rotation.

 

(In regards to Paxton pitching out of the pen) “Until we get a little closer and we know exactly where he’s at, I don’t want to say anything definitively,” Bloom said. “I will say with somebody at the stage of his career that he’s at and having been through as much medically as he’s been through, adding the variable of asking to do something he hasn’t really done is something that we would have to think long and hard before doing. That doesn’t rule it out.

 

“Especially early in the season when you’re trying to build guys up the right way and especially knowing some of our guys are guys that there’s extra reason we need to take care of them, in some cases we have guys who just haven’t pitched a whole lot in recent years and we need to build them up the right way,” Bloom said. “So we will be taking care of them and protecting workloads. That’s something Alex (Cora) feels really strongly about and our medical team feels strongly about.

 

“That doesn’t mean we won’t see, potentially some creative uses of guys, but in terms of the role, that you know Brayan’s ceiling is so high that we don’t want to jerk him around. I can’t make any promises about what will happen early on in the season because I think we will if we want to take care of guys the right way. We may need to get creative here, but he he has a ceiling of a really good starting pitcher and we don’t want to get in the way of that.”

 

Are you ready for some piggybacking??? I'm not.

 

They're going to f*** it up, aren't they. Cora didn't do a great job at the start of 2019. Cora didn't do a great job managing the Whitlock/Houck dynamic in 2022.

 

I get the feeling our issue will be more about us being comfortable with 4 SP'ers more than which of the 6.

 

Someone will be on the IL openi9ng day and solve the issue. If at any point during the season, all 6 are healthy at the same time, I'd rather they go with a 6 man rotation vs piggybacking.

 

My choice would be to give the guy who need a rest or his innings "managed," some time in the pen, until the next guys goes on the IL (or needs his innings "managed.")

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom and Cora are certainly on the same page when it comes to using the expression " taking care of". They can't get enough of it.

 

It was all planned. Let three old starters walk, replace them with only one new old-timer, and invest in many more relievers.

 

Better get ready for openers and nightly match-ups. Considering how much last year blew -- pen intended -- it's at least a different approach (what have we got to lose: fourth place?)

 

Hopefully, AC learned his lesson burning out Barnsey on high leverage every night, and will now delegate many go-to's. Moe: "Spread out!"

[a700hitter]

How about this Stinky Winky SSS?

[Hugh2]

Isn’t it arbitrary to question someone’s fandom for critiquing 50% of the team. What are we supposed to do if we have a last place team —- likely more than half of the team will be worse than replacement level. If someone critiques only 25%, is that person a better fan? I just don’t understand why people think that critiquing players means hatred of the players. That’s just silly. Brooklyn Dodger fans called the team Dem Bums, but they loved that team and the players. A critique is not hatred. Movie reviewers who pan a movie because the performances are awful don’t hate the actors. There is a big distinction between critique and hatred. And nicknames are just fun.

 

I know we bump heads a lot and I'm kind of a dick but this is a great point. And a team should never be free of any critique.

[harmony]

Calm questioning critique is good.

 

Vitriolic personal attacks are not.

 

IMHO

[moonslav59]

Yoshida-mania is running wild. Bloom did it!

 

If Yoshida gives us 3.4, I'd be very happy.

 

The ones I think are too high, the most are...

 

2.2 Mondesi- he has the talent, but he needs to stay healthy (sound familiar?)

1.5 Story (308 PAs seems very high)

1.5 Paxton (139 IP- LOL!)

 

I might take the over on...

1.8 Turner

0.4 Houck

[moonslav59]

How about this Stinky Winky SSS?

 

Only Storyland and the Butterfly Man know...

[Nick]

Moon we talked about construction of the team based on distribution of team controlled years

....in a perfect world 4 rookies added to replace 4 players becoming free agent.

 

My question is do you split the roster 50/50 with home grown talents versus free agents/traded players?

 

Thus you only need 2 homegrown players and 2. FA/Trades? Obviously you won't sign too many FA for 6 years so you may need 3 or 4 depending on the length of contract.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Moon we talked about construction of the team based on distribution of team controlled years

....in a perfect world 4 rookies added to replace 4 players becoming free agent.

 

My question is do you split the roster 50/50 with home grown talents versus free agents/traded players?

 

Thus you only need 2 homegrown players and 2. FA/Trades? Obviously you won't sign too many FA for 6 years so you may need 3 or 4 depending on the length of contract.

 

I'm a bit confused by the question.

 

In theory, the more talented homegrown talent, the better, especially if pre-arb or early arb. That's not something we can theorize. It either happens or it doesn't.

 

There is so much speculative and moving parts, it's impossible to project the make-up of this summer's roster, let alone next year and beyond.

 

As much as I've stated how happy I am the farm has become a top priority, again, I have no idea, if the results will come close to what I expect and hope for. It is a fact, we have more ML ready prospects that have come up since mid last year and expected to get a chance by mid next year than we've had in a two year period in a very long time. It remains to be seen how they pan out. How many can win meaningful roles and hold them for a few years. How many might become more than just role players.

 

I've always prefered quality over quantity, but it is nice to see the quantity so high. Now, we just need to hope enough of them make it. I do see some quality among our prospects, and I know many will not make it, but it's better to have hope in the farm than wishing for miracles.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

I like having so many two year players vs the one year signings that marked much of Bloom's first 3 season signings.

 

The Yoshida and Story signings have 5 years to go. We lose a whole lot of players in 2 years, unless we extend or re-sign them: Sale, Dugo, Jansen, Martin, Kluber, Turner, Pivetta, Rodriguez, Bleier, Arroyo & Refsnyder. (Only, Kike, Duvall, Mondesi, Paxton and Brasier are FAs after 2023.)

 

Joining Yoshida and Story, of course is Devers (10 yrs), but also:

 

3 yrs: McGuire

4 yrs: Schreiber, Dalbec

5+ yrs: Whitlock, Houck, Bello, Casas, Wong, Kelly, Mills, Crawford, Winckowski, Ort, Duran

ML Ready prospects: Rafaela, Mata, EValdez, Walter, Murphy

2024 ML Ready: Mayer, Yorke, Hamilton, Abreu, Lugo, Kavadas, Drohan, RFernandez

 

That's 30 guys with 3+ years, but not all will still be around in 2-3 years. I'd guess we'll need 12-18 out-of-system additions to fill the rest of the 2025 roster.

 

[mvp 78]

https://www.eagletribune.com/sports/underwhelming-farm-system-rankings-dont-tell-full-story-of-red-sox-rebuild/article_9c878336-a6fa-11ed-bd16-c7173d6fe8b9.html

 

Mac Cerullo article with Chris Hatfield of SoxProspects discussing the overall state of the Sox system. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

 

Coming into the new season Hatfield said he expected to see the Red Sox fall in the No. 11-15 range in the preseason organizational rankings and believes Baseball America and MLB Pipeline’s assessments will be closer in line with McDaniel’s than with Law’s.

 

Why the middle of the pack? Though the Red Sox do have more high end talent than they used to, the system is also somewhat top heavy.

 

Something that stands out about the Red Sox system is there are two distinct “bubbles” coming up.

 

One has already reached Triple-A or even the majors and is just about ready to contribute right now (Casas, Bello, Rafaela, misc. pitchers). The other is still in Single-A and likely at least two years away.

 

The sparse in-between at Double-A is the reason why the Red Sox aren’t in the top 10, and filling that gap will be the next step the club has to reach before it can be compared to the an organization like the Los Angeles Dodgers, who always seem to have a bottomless supply of prospects coming up year after year.

[sk7326]

https://www.eagletribune.com/sports/underwhelming-farm-system-rankings-dont-tell-full-story-of-red-sox-rebuild/article_9c878336-a6fa-11ed-bd16-c7173d6fe8b9.html

 

Mac Cerullo article with Chris Hatfield of SoxProspects discussing the overall state of the Sox system. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

 

Coming into the new season Hatfield said he expected to see the Red Sox fall in the No. 11-15 range in the preseason organizational rankings and believes Baseball America and MLB Pipeline’s assessments will be closer in line with McDaniel’s than with Law’s.

 

Why the middle of the pack? Though the Red Sox do have more high end talent than they used to, the system is also somewhat top heavy.

 

Something that stands out about the Red Sox system is there are two distinct “bubbles” coming up.

 

One has already reached Triple-A or even the majors and is just about ready to contribute right now (Casas, Bello, Rafaela, misc. pitchers). The other is still in Single-A and likely at least two years away.

 

The sparse in-between at Double-A is the reason why the Red Sox aren’t in the top 10, and filling that gap will be the next step the club has to reach before it can be compared to the an organization like the Los Angeles Dodgers, who always seem to have a bottomless supply of prospects coming up year after year.

 

This is fair ... McDaniel's main critique is the next wave of prospects coming has to step up. And of course if some of the arms in the organization start to flash some "closer to ceiling" outcomes then everything really starts coming up Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

https://www.eagletribune.com/sports/underwhelming-farm-system-rankings-dont-tell-full-story-of-red-sox-rebuild/article_9c878336-a6fa-11ed-bd16-c7173d6fe8b9.html

 

Mac Cerullo article with Chris Hatfield of SoxProspects discussing the overall state of the Sox system. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

 

Coming into the new season Hatfield said he expected to see the Red Sox fall in the No. 11-15 range in the preseason organizational rankings and believes Baseball America and MLB Pipeline’s assessments will be closer in line with McDaniel’s than with Law’s.

 

Why the middle of the pack? Though the Red Sox do have more high end talent than they used to, the system is also somewhat top heavy.

 

Something that stands out about the Red Sox system is there are two distinct “bubbles” coming up.

 

One has already reached Triple-A or even the majors and is just about ready to contribute right now (Casas, Bello, Rafaela, misc. pitchers). The other is still in Single-A and likely at least two years away.

 

The sparse in-between at Double-A is the reason why the Red Sox aren’t in the top 10, and filling that gap will be the next step the club has to reach before it can be compared to the an organization like the Los Angeles Dodgers, who always seem to have a bottomless supply of prospects coming up year after year.

 

So, they must be viewing Mayer as "at least 2 years away," then, right?

 

He could sure fill in the gap between the bubbles by making a strong debut in 2024. (Maybe even get a look-see in 2023, as you suggest.)

[sk7326]

So, they must be viewing Mayer as "at least 2 years away," then, right?

 

He could sure fill in the gap between the bubbles by making a strong debut in 2024. (Maybe even get a look-see in 2023, as you suggest.)

 

This year will give us an idea exactly how gold plated he is ... at some point he's going to be a 20 year old in Portland, which would make him one of the youngest regulars in AA. If he plays well this season, then it's time to dream very big.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This is fair ... McDaniel's main critique is the next wave of prospects coming has to step up. And of course if some of the arms in the organization start to flash some "closer to ceiling" outcomes then everything really starts coming up Red Sox.

 

It's hard to assess pitching down on the farms, after everyone lost a year of in-game development in the summer of '20. But according to mlb.com, the Orioles, Jays, Guardians, Phils, Marlins and Dodgers all have two Top-10 righty or lefty starting prospects. Boston has zero.

 

The Red Sox feel they need to limit Bello's innings -- he's going to be 24 in May. So will Mata.

 

Just for perspective: Clemens was 24 the year he won AL MVP. Valenzuela and Gooden threw 8 shutouts apiece in the bigs when they were 20.

[sk7326]

It's hard to assess pitching down on the farms, after everyone lost a year of in-game development in the summer of '20. But according to mlb.com, the Orioles, Jays, Guardians, Phils, Marlins and Dodgers all have two Top-10 righty or lefty starting prospects. Boston has zero.

 

The Red Sox feel they need to limit Bello's innings -- he's going to be 24 in May. So will Mata.

 

Just for perspective: Clemens was 24 the year he won AL MVP. Valenzuela and Gooden threw 8 shutouts apiece in the bigs when they were 20.

 

There is a wide range of outcomes - this is where looking at some of the detailed reports and not just the rankings helps. Mata missed development time with the injury. Chris Murphy has just had trouble throwing strikes. And of course pitching is just volatile anyway. But the org does not have at this moment even an Anderson Espinoza of yore type - yes he was dealt, got hurt, flamed out ... but the industry saw a #1/#2 starter in there in lower levels. Kopech was the last blue chip pitcher they have had.

 

What has happened is that the org has done a nice job just getting big league "something" type of arms - more than in a long time. But whether those are quality starters or long relievers or relievers where 20 of them will appear in a big league game and Cora manages the team like an All-Star game? That is an open question.

[Old Red]

I don't think A700 is trying to stir the pot here, I think we're all trying to settle the issue and explain where we stand. Maybe come to an agreement about what is allowable? It's not like YOTN is going to log in and make a post about what we can and can't say.

 

At the very least, you're no longer fighting back and forth with Old Red so that's a good start and maybe we can move forward.

 

Maybe the reason is I’ve had the common decency, and common sense to take a break, and give everyone else a break, but I noticed reading all the post not everyone did the same thing. Of course they would have to know they did something wrong first. I call things as I see em, and one in particular just can’t stand that, and thinks he’s the judge of what’s right, and wrong. After 60+ years of watching, listening, and reading Al kinds of sports venues I Never seen anything, or anyone like this, and I’m sure he’s been that way since he’s been on here. You told me once that you have put him on timeout, and that’s not surprising at all. All kinds of fans boo’d JH on two separate times in public, and boo’d Bloom once too. Are those bad fans, and do they hate JH, and Bloom? No!, and No! Of course when you analyze every single letter of every single word to try, and come up with the meaning,and then get it wrong more times than not who else does that? Nothing wrong in my view to repeat nicknames that I all heard from somebody else. I don’t need any more innings to say he’s Stinkin Winkin any more than I did Jeter, Franchy, Seabold, or Duran The Butterfly Man. If other do than that’s fine. Like I said on an earlier post there should have been suspensions, and then probations handed out for the relentlessly back, and forth nonsense, and at least I took time off. I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 65 years, and I will continue to be one, and NO One will tell me I can’t, and that’s the bottom line.

[moonslav59]

There is a wide range of outcomes - this is where looking at some of the detailed reports and not just the rankings helps. Mata missed development time with the injury. Chris Murphy has just had trouble throwing strikes. And of course pitching is just volatile anyway. But the org does not have at this moment even an Anderson Espinoza of yore type - yes he was dealt, got hurt, flamed out ... but the industry saw a #1/#2 starter in there in lower levels. Kopech was the last blue chip pitcher they have had.

 

What has happened is that the org has done a nice job just getting big league "something" type of arms - more than in a long time. But whether those are quality starters or long relievers or relievers where 20 of them will appear in a big league game and Cora manages the team like an All-Star game? That is an open question.

 

I hope we don't have to "trial and error" our way with our staff through the first half of 2023. I think we have a pretty good idea who has the best chances at succeeding, this year, and they will be given the first chances, once someone gets hurt or flops enough to be demoted or DFA'd.

 

Mata has missed some time, but he was pretty highly regarded before the injury and has looked very good, recently. As much as health concerns seems to be our team motto, Mata has real talent- possibly as a strong pen guy.

 

Walter: You gotta like the 75Ks and just 7 BBs in 58 IP, last season at AA/AAA, but can that translate to the bigs? He laso had a .585 OPS Against, but that 58 IP is worrisome. I'm not sure when the last time we had a SP'er with 75:7 K:BB ratio.

 

Murphy has not really impressed me. He started off great, last season, and fell off a cliff near the end. Maybe he should be placed in the pen in AAA.

 

Crawford & Wink are not prospects, anymore, but I still have some hopes they can rise above their rookie numbers.

 

Kelly may give us some nice pen help down the road.

 

The Sox pitching on the farm is still not close to what many teams have, but I do think it is taking a step in the right direction, and maybe Perales, Wikelman or E R-C take major strides, this summer.

[moonslav59]

Maybe the reason is I’ve had the common decency, and common sense to take a break, and give everyone else a break, but I noticed reading all the post not everyone did the same thing. Of course they would have to know they did something wrong first. I call things as I see em, and one in particular just can’t stand that, and thinks he’s the judge of what’s right, and wrong. After 60+ years of watching, listening, and reading Al kinds of sports venues I Never seen anything, or anyone like this, and I’m sure he’s been that way since he’s been on here. You told me once that you have put him on timeout, and that’s not surprising at all. All kinds of fans boo’d JH on two separate times in public, and boo’d Bloom once too. Are those bad fans, and do they hate JH, and Bloom? No!, and No! Of course when you analyze every single letter of every single word to try, and come up with the meaning,and then get it wrong more times than not who else does that? Nothing wrong in my view to repeat nicknames that I all heard from somebody else. I don’t need any more innings to say he’s Stinkin Winkin any more than I did Jeter, Franchy, Seabold, or Duran The Butterfly Man. If other do than that’s fine. Like I said on an earlier post there should have been suspensions, and then probations handed out for the relentlessly back, and forth nonsense, and at least I took time off. I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 65 years, and I will continue to be one, and NO One will tell me I can’t, and that’s the bottom line.

 

I knew you couldn't resist one more attack, but I'll refrain from returning one.

 

Sorry for questioning your fandom. That was not right.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the reason is I’ve had the common decency, and common sense to take a break, and give everyone else a break, but I noticed reading all the post not everyone did the same thing. Of course they would have to know they did something wrong first. I call things as I see em, and one in particular just can’t stand that, and thinks he’s the judge of what’s right, and wrong. After 60+ years of watching, listening, and reading Al kinds of sports venues I Never seen anything, or anyone like this, and I’m sure he’s been that way since he’s been on here. You told me once that you have put him on timeout, and that’s not surprising at all. All kinds of fans boo’d JH on two separate times in public, and boo’d Bloom once too. Are those bad fans, and do they hate JH, and Bloom? No!, and No! Of course when you analyze every single letter of every single word to try, and come up with the meaning,and then get it wrong more times than not who else does that? Nothing wrong in my view to repeat nicknames that I all heard from somebody else. I don’t need any more innings to say he’s Stinkin Winkin any more than I did Jeter, Franchy, Seabold, or Duran The Butterfly Man. If other do than that’s fine. Like I said on an earlier post there should have been suspensions, and then probations handed out for the relentlessly back, and forth nonsense, and at least I took time off. I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 65 years, and I will continue to be one, and NO One will tell me I can’t, and that’s the bottom line.

 

Red, this is a very lightly moderated message board, and I think most of us like it that way. That's why there have been no suspensions. We have to try to police ourselves a bit here. Nobody wants you or moon to get suspended or to make big changes in what you say here. We just want to stop the incessant back and forths and the personal stuff. The simple rule is: talk about what the other person said, but don't talk about the other person.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[harmony]

Red, this is a very lightly moderated message board, and I think most of us like it that way. That's why there have no suspensions. We have to try to police ourselves a bit here. Nobody wants you or moon to get suspended or to make big changes in what you say here. We just want to stop the incessant back and forths and the personal stuff. The simple rules is: talk about what the other person said, but don't talk about the other person.

Well stated, Bellhorn04.