A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

Ramon Vazquez to become Sox new bench coach.

[mvp 78]

Cite all the stats you want to; I only have the ear test -- listening to many Yankee fans I know who never trusted Ottavino and dreaded him in any big moment or game.

 

I also know a kid who literally burned his Cole t-shirt. Barbarians...

 

He was fine as a 7th/8th inning guy. He's just not a closer anymore.

[moonslav59]

While Bloom had many misses in his budget-minded pen building moves, Andriese and Diekman to name two of the higher paid ones, he did pretty well with Schreiber, Strahm, Valdez and hopefully Kelly & German, next year.

[mvp 78]

While Bloom had many misses in his budget-minded pen building moves, Andriese and Diekman to name two of the higher paid ones, he did pretty well with Schreiber, Strahm, Valdez and hopefully Kelly & German, next year.

 

Well, you named 5 guys, but he brought in about 30. I wouldn't say he has a strong record of building a pen considering their year to year results out there. If Valdez is one of the bright spots, it says a lot about the job he's done. Yuck!

[notin]

He was fine as a 7th/8th inning guy. He's just not a closer anymore.

 

He never really was one…

[notin]

Well, you named 5 guys, but he brought in about 30. I wouldn't say he has a strong record of building a pen considering their year to year results out there. If Valdez is one of the bright spots, it says a lot about the job he's done. Yuck!

 

We could add Whitlock…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well, you named 5 guys, but he brought in about 30. I wouldn't say he has a strong record of building a pen considering their year to year results out there. If Valdez is one of the bright spots, it says a lot about the job he's done. Yuck!

 

My point is that Bloom has never acquired a reliever at the time the pitcher was actually good. Some used to be, others emerged when given a chance, but the Red Sox just don't pay market value for any upgrades to their bullpen, in the offseason or before the summer trade deadline.

 

There are other reasons the bullpen invariably sucks, starting with the starters who break down or can't go long -- and the subsequent insufficient rotation depth -- causing the same issues at the back end.

 

As others have noted, budget constraints and/or org philosophies may have conspired to create this pattern. But if things don't change, be prepared to get your joelys in the old familia way.

[notin]

My point is that Bloom has never acquired a reliever at the time the pitcher was actually good. Some used to be, others emerged when given a chance, but the Red Sox just don't pay market value for any upgrades to their bullpen, in the offseason or before the summer trade deadline.

 

There are other reasons the bullpen invariably sucks, starting with the starters who break down or can't go long -- and the subsequent insufficient rotation depth -- causing the same issues at the back end.

 

As others have noted, budget constraints and/or org philosophies may have conspired to create this pattern. But if things don't change, be prepared to get your joelys in the old familia way.

 

Save one inning, Ottavino was good. Those Yankee fans whose opinion you prefer over data also yell at the TV and boo any player who fails to dominate in the same fashion a Division I college player would in a Little League game…

[mvp 78]

He never really was one…

 

People saw him as having closer upside. He got 11 saves with the Sox in 2021.

[mvp 78]

We could add Whitlock…

 

I'm fine with doing a full auditing of his moves. Weird to put Valdez in there IMO.

[mvp 78]

My point is that Bloom has never acquired a reliever at the time the pitcher was actually good. Some used to be, others emerged when given a chance, but the Red Sox just don't pay market value for any upgrades to their bullpen, in the offseason or before the summer trade deadline.

 

There are other reasons the bullpen invariably sucks, starting with the starters who break down or can't go long -- and the subsequent insufficient rotation depth -- causing the same issues at the back end.

 

As others have noted, budget constraints and/or org philosophies may have conspired to create this pattern. But if things don't change, be prepared to get your joelys in the old familia way.

 

Horrible. Not on a Monday morning please.

[Old Red]

My point is that Bloom has never acquired a reliever at the time the pitcher was actually good. Some used to be, others emerged when given a chance, but the Red Sox just don't pay market value for any upgrades to their bullpen, in the offseason or before the summer trade deadline.

 

There are other reasons the bullpen invariably sucks, starting with the starters who break down or can't go long -- and the subsequent insufficient rotation depth -- causing the same issues at the back end.

 

As others have noted, budget constraints and/or org philosophies may have conspired to create this pattern. But if things don't change, be prepared to get your joelys in the old familia way.

 

Well said, and taking Whitlock out of the pen has already weakened the bullpen further. Lots of hope penning Houck can be a consistent closer, and Schreiber to duplicate last year, and then there is Barnes, and Barnes is anyones guess on what he will be.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Horrible. Not on a Monday morning please.

 

You've got a week to rest up. Then brace yourself for the sure to be epic, monumental winter meetings.

[mvp 78]

@DSzymborski

A sneak peak at the FanGraphs depth chart for the first ZiPS team of 2023, the Boston #RedSox. Full projections up Monday.

 

https://twitter.com/DSzymborski/status/1596615062898475009

[mvp 78]

You've got a week to rest up. Then brace yourself for the sure to be epic, monumental winter meetings.

 

I was more worried about notin's turn of phrase than the Joelyfication of the bullpen.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Save one inning, Ottavino was good. Those Yankee fans whose opinion you prefer over data also yell at the TV and boo any player who fails to dominate in the same fashion a Division I college player would in a Little League game…

 

You try standing up there in the batter's box when a 12-year old with a mustache is throwing in the high-70s only 45 feet away...

 

According to ESPN conversion charts, that's like facing a 100-mph heater on the big diamond. If some kid beans you, will you even be able to get up to hug him?

[moonslav59]

Well, you named 5 guys, but he brought in about 30. I wouldn't say he has a strong record of building a pen considering their year to year results out there. If Valdez is one of the bright spots, it says a lot about the job he's done. Yuck!

 

Was my point saying Bloom did a fine job with the pen?

 

I thought I said he had many misses, then named 3 guys and two hopefuls (leaving out Wallace). That sounds like the opposite of praise, to me.

[moonslav59]

@DSzymborski

A sneak peak at the FanGraphs depth chart for the first ZiPS team of 2023, the Boston #RedSox. Full projections up Monday.

 

https://twitter.com/DSzymborski/status/1596615062898475009

 

Usually, I think they estimate on the low side. This looks pretty generous in several areas.

[Bellhorn04]

You've got a week to rest up. Then brace yourself for the sure to be epic, monumental winter meetings.

 

I think it's been a while since the winter meetings resulted in a flurry of moves.

[Hugh2]

I think it's been a while since the winter meetings resulted in a flurry of moves.

 

Last year we had the CBA in disarray, the year before was a Covid year. We have not had a normal offseason in over two years.

[Bellhorn04]

Last year we had the CBA in disarray, the year before was a Covid year. We have not had a normal offseason in over two years.

 

That's true. But even before that we were commenting on how the winter meetings didn't seem to be much of a catalyst any more.

 

And why would they be any more? In-person interaction has become kind of an optional thing.

[mvp 78]

Was my point saying Bloom did a fine job with the pen?

 

I thought I said he had many misses, then named 3 guys and two hopefuls (leaving out Wallace). That sounds like the opposite of praise, to me.

 

I guess your point wasn't clear? Must have been a bad post!

[mvp 78]

That's true. But even before that we were commenting on how the winter meetings didn't seem to be much of a catalyst any more.

 

And why would they be any more? In-person interaction has become kind of an optional thing.

 

Do ANY of the high profile guys get signed at the winter meetings? Do the meetings even make a difference anymore? They seem to be more of a relic of the past to me.

[Bellhorn04]

Do ANY of the high profile guys get signed at the winter meetings? Do the meetings even make a difference anymore? They seem to be more of a relic of the past to me.

 

Agreed.

[a700hitter]

Do ANY of the high profile guys get signed at the winter meetings? Do the meetings even make a difference anymore? They seem to be more of a relic of the past to me.

A nice paid vacation for the suits and their families.

[moonslav59]

Agreed.

 

It's a GM meeting- not a GM and agents meeting. If anything, it would be a time where trades are made or discussions begun.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a GM meeting- not a GM and agents meeting. If anything, it would be a time where trades are made or discussions begun.

 

There was a time things seemed to happen at the meetings. I guess agents were hanging around there too.

[moonslav59]

I guess your point wasn't clear? Must have been a bad post!

 

What part of Many of his pen building moves was unclear?

 

I just pointed to 3 successful moves and gave a reason why (budget) maybe it hasn't been good.

 

You chose to misinterpret my clear statement.

[moonslav59]

There was a time things seemed to happen at the meetings. I guess agents were hanging around there too.

 

Maybe it happened more by chance than by what actually happened in the meetings.

 

Maybe teams want to do their due diligence more, now.

[mvp 78]

Ken Rosenthal says that he expects the Red Sox to improve at the catching position, mentions Sean Murphy, Alejandro Kirk, Danny Jansen and Gabriel Moreno as options.

 

Murphy will be too expensive IMO.