Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

If JH fires Bloom now, he would look like the most impatient jackass owner in baseball in a long time.

 

It's just not happening.

If he doesn’t fire Bloom, and the Red Sox sink even lower in the League standings he will look like a jackass as well. I agree it’s not happening. Yet.

[Elktonnick]

Some of the posters on here I think are more giddy over the farm boys then they are of the big league club. Casas has not yet produced in a Red Sox uniform, and no one knows for sure if, and how much he will, and the same with Mayer. I think to much speculation has been made on the farm, and the possible success for 2023, 2024, or 2025.

IMO. The Sox are bringing guys up way too soon. Watching Duran et al play they make too many fundamental mistakes.

For all I can tell Casas may just be another guy who can not recognize a breaking pitch and gets exposed the way Dalbec was.

Quite frankly Casas's record in Worcester doesn't impress me. He has less than 300 at bats at TripleA. Not enough to my thinking.

[Bellhorn04]

With the lux tax it is not the money its the draft picks.

 

There are no draft pick penalties if you only go over by $12 million or so as the Red Sox did this year.

 

Competitive Balance Tax | Glossary | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

[Bellhorn04]

The bottom line the club was a clear contender at the end of 21 now it is not.. Nor does it look good in 23 or 24.

Bloom has no plan. His apologists continue to delude themselves.

 

It's way too early to say what the team will look like in 23 or 24.

 

But I know it's much easier to go all in on the "Bloom sucks and we're f***ed" narrative...

[JDavis76]

IMO. The Sox are bringing guys up way too soon. Watching Duran et al play they make too many fundamental mistakes.

For all I can tell Casas may just be another guy who can not recognize a breaking pitch and gets exposed the way Dalbec was.

Quite frankly Casas's record in Worcester doesn't impress me. He has less than 300 at bats at TripleA. Not enough to my thinking.

 

That's why I thought the sox were down in Williamsport, so guys like dalbec could pick up some pointers from the Little Leaguers.....

[Bellhorn04]

How is it building a sustainable winner by bringing in back side of thirty guys like Refsnyder , Pham , Hosmer and Betances ? I just can't see what the plan is here?

 

Bringing in those guys has nothing to do with building a sustainable winner. But they're the kind of fill-ins every team needs. You're too smart of a baseball fan not to know this.

[Elktonnick]

It's way too early to say what the team will look like in 23 or 24.

 

But I know it's much easier to go all in on the "Bloom sucks and we're f***ed" narrative...

Really, this club has more holes than a kilo of Swiss cheese. At best they have one outfielder the bull pen is shaky as is the rotation. They have question marks at 1st and either 2nd or short take your pick. They have a big hole at catcher. And will be without a dh. Other than that they are solid.

[moonslav59]

IMO. The Sox are bringing guys up way too soon. Watching Duran et al play they make too many fundamental mistakes.

For all I can tell Casas may just be another guy who can not recognize a breaking pitch and gets exposed the way Dalbec was.

Quite frankly Casas's record in Worcester doesn't impress me. He has less than 300 at bats at TripleA. Not enough to my thinking.

 

Duran was a tough call. Apparently his bat was ready long before they brought him up, but one could argue, ready for what? It was his defense that many of us worried about.

 

Many Bloom-bashers argued Duran should have been called up earlier. You don't hear much from them, anymore, but I guess Bloom is bashed if he does or if he doesn't.

 

On building up the farm, of course we won't know the results for years, but on paper, it appears Bloom has added quality and quantity- much via trades, which by extension implies a hit on the big club or budget to get them.

 

I think it's a safe bet to say building the farm was a high priority handed to Bloom, along with keeping the budget low, at least until March 2022 with the Story signing.

[Bellhorn04]

Really, this club has more holes than a kilo of Swiss cheese. At best they have one outfielder the bull pen is shaky as is the rotation. They have question marks at 1st and either 2nd or short take your pick. They have a big hole at catcher. And will be without a dh. Other than that they are solid.

 

Bloom has a lot of work to do before next year. We all know that.

[Elktonnick]

Bringing in those guys has nothing to do with building a sustainable winner. But they're the kind of fill-ins every team needs. You're too smart of a baseball fan not to know this.

You are right about one thing,ie Bloom has done nothing to build a sustainable winner.

[Elktonnick]

Bloom has a lot of work to do before next year. We all know that.

 

You think he is capable of doing that work. I like Pedro see no evidence that he is.

[Old Red]

Duran was a tough call. Apparently his bat was ready long before they brought him up, but one could argue, ready for what? It was his defense that many of us worried about.

 

Many Bloom-bashers argued Duran should have been called up earlier. You don't hear much from them, anymore, but I guess Bloom is bashed if he does or if he doesn't.

 

On building up the farm, of course we won't know the results for years, but on paper, it appears Bloom has added quality and quantity- much via trades, which by extension implies a hit on the big club or budget to get them.

 

I think it's a safe bet to say building the farm was a high priority handed to Bloom, along with keeping the budget low, at least until March 2022 with the Story signing.

Duran’s bat is ready? Worcester, or Boston? You keep putting Duran as a possible fit in LF next year. Paper doesn’t play on the field either.

[sk7326]

Duran’s bat is ready? Worcester, or Boston? You keep putting Duran as a possible fit in LF next year. Paper doesn’t play on the field either.

 

The one thing Bloom has done developmentally is get more pitching in the org than it has had in years. It'd be nice to have more #1/#2 starter among that group, but there seem to be a lot of dudes who can be solid big league somethings. And if we really are converging to a 120 IP starter sort of reality, maybe having lots of flawed stuff guys is the way to go? I dunno.

 

It'd be nice to have a star - though the arrival there is not 2024 at the earliest.

[dgalehouse]

Bloom has a lot of work to do before next year. We all know that.

 

There is a lot of work to do. It's just that some of us think that there are people who are better suited to do that work than is Bloom. He has done nothing to inspire any confidence.

[Bobe2]

Really, this club has more holes than a kilo of Swiss cheese. At best they have one outfielder the bull pen is shaky as is the rotation. They have question marks at 1st and either 2nd or short take your pick. They have a big hole at catcher. And will be without a dh. Other than that they are solid.

 

What do you mean holes, we’ve been training Dalbec at second we have Cordero for Dh and if we play our cards right maybe we can swing a trade with the Jays for JBJ

[moonslav59]

The one thing Bloom has done developmentally is get more pitching in the org than it has had in years. It'd be nice to have more #1/#2 starter among that group, but there seem to be a lot of dudes who can be solid big league somethings. And if we really are converging to a 120 IP starter sort of reality, maybe having lots of flawed stuff guys is the way to go? I dunno.

 

It'd be nice to have a star - though the arrival there is not 2024 at the earliest.

 

Other than adding Whitlock, he hasn't really drafted or signed many IFA pitchers. He traded for Wink. He signed Schreiber as an IFA or maybe waivers?

[Hugh2]

Other than adding Whitlock, he hasn't really drafted or signed many IFA pitchers. He traded for Wink. He signed Schreiber as an IFA or maybe waivers?

 

Haven’t gone too far back so maybe I missed something but - Wacha, Pivetta, Seabold, among a few other depth guys and relievers were also Bloom additions. Bloom seems to be pretty good at constructing an amazing rotation 3-5, just can’t get the 1-2 down. Although they were probably banking on a healthy Sale. Would be nice to get a TOTRS regardless of what’s Sales future is.

[moonslav59]

Haven’t gone too far back so maybe I missed something but - Wacha, Pivetta, Seabold, among a few other depth guys and relievers were also Bloom additions. Bloom seems to be pretty good at constructing an amazing rotation 3-5, just can’t get the 1-2 down. Although they were probably banking on a healthy Sale. Would be nice to get a TOTRS regardless of what’s Sales future is.

 

Yes, Pivetta & Seabold were traded for and Wacha, Hill, Strahm and Diekman were signed, last winter. (Richards, Martin Perez, Sawamura and Andriese, the previous winter.)

 

Yes, he has added more pitchers than just Whitlock and Wink. My bad. (I thought you were talking about the farm of for the future.)

[notin]

Other than adding Whitlock, he hasn't really drafted or signed many IFA pitchers. He traded for Wink. He signed Schreiber as an IFA or maybe waivers?

 

Schreiber was claimed off waivers after being DFAd by the Tigers…

[moonslav59]

Schreiber was claimed off waivers after being DFAd by the Tigers…

 

Somehow, this moves is largely ignored by Bloom-bashers. Same with Refsnyder, Pivetta and others. Rarely is it mentioned that Bloom made a tremendous acquisition by signing Renfroe to just $3.1M in 2021. All we hear about is the horrific JBJ deal, which does deserve a lot of criticism, but it's not the whole story.

[Bellhorn04]

Somehow, this moves is largely ignored by Bloom-bashers. Same with Refsnyder, Pivetta and others. Rarely is it mentioned that Bloom made a tremendous acquisition by signing Renfroe to just $3.1M in 2021. All we hear about is the horrific JBJ deal, which does deserve a lot of criticism, but it's not the whole story.

 

Bloom-bashers will say that's all nice, but we're still 60-62, and last in the division.

[moonslav59]

Bloom-bashers will say that's all nice, but we're still 60-62, and last in the division.

 

Seemingly, their main plan to fix it involves keeping everybody like Vaz, extend Bogey and Nate. Not locking up the under performing Bogey cast some sort of voodoo spell on the team, and then trading the clubhouse leader who helped lead us get to a losing record was the final dagger in team morale.

 

It's all on Bloom & Cora for not realizing we needed to keep this losing team intact and go large at the deadline on a team these guys have been bashing, all year as being poorly constructed. Like we were just 1-2 players away from a ring.

 

In all seriousness, I ask this question to the Bloom bashers: If we were just a couple big deadline moves away from competition for the ring, then just how bad could the roster have been constructed by Bloom over the last winter or few years?

 

Am I the only one seeing some sort of contradiction to this months/years long, Bloom bashing narrative?

[Bellhorn04]

In all seriousness, I ask this question to the Bloom bashers: If we were just a couple big deadline moves away from competition for the ring, then just how bad could the roster have been constructed by Bloom over the last winter or few years?

 

Am I the only one seeing some sort of contradiction to this months/years long, Bloom bashing narrative?

 

I think the basher argument would go something like this: it's his fault that the team was in last place at the deadline. They still had a chance to make the playoffs, though, because of the third Wild Card. But he put the final nails in the coffin by trading Vazquez and not getting any pitching help. The team was confused and depressed by this, so the attitude was hurt as well.

[Elktonnick]

I think the basher argument would go something like this: it's his fault that the team was in last place at the deadline. They still had a chance to make the playoffs, though, because of the third Wild Card. But he put the final nails in the coffin by trading Vazquez and not getting any pitching help. The team was confused and depressed by this, so the attitude was hurt as well.

Bingo! I would add that whatever he did in 21 was nullified by his deconstruction of the team at the end of 21 season. Moreover his lack of foresight by not getting below the lux tax needlessly complicates any rebuilding efforts in 23 and beyond.

[Bellhorn04]

Bingo! I would add that whatever he did in 21 was nullified by his deconstruction of the team at the end of 21 season. Moreover his lack of foresight by not getting below the lux tax needlessly complicates any rebuilding efforts in 23 and beyond.

 

To each their own, but I think going over the tax line this year was a signal that Henry is still willing to spend. Call it PR if you want.

 

And yes, Bloom could have gotten back under by trading JD, Eovaldi etc., but that's not the message they wanted to send. They're trying to stick to the plan of competing while rebuilding.

 

When the competing part fails but you're over the tax line, you look bad and maybe even stupid, there's no way around it.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Somehow, this moves is largely ignored by Bloom-bashers. Same with Refsnyder, Pivetta and others. Rarely is it mentioned that Bloom made a tremendous acquisition by signing Renfroe to just $3.1M in 2021. All we hear about is the horrific JBJ deal, which does deserve a lot of criticism, but it's not the whole story.

 

Bloom has made some decent moves and some indecent ones. But it's not like he's signed Luis Tiant or Big Papi after they were cut by other teams... yet. If you think of it, most GMs are remembered by the big name players they acquire or deal, and whether those transactions lead to winning or losing (few are credited for or blamed for who they draft).

 

Lou Gorman traded Jeff Bagwell. Duquette traded for Varitek, Lowe, Pedro, and signed Manny. Epstein signed Papi, Foulke, Drew, DiceK, Crawford and Lackey, traded for Schilling, traded away Nomar. Someone swapped Hanley for Beckett and Lowell.

 

Cherington dealt Gonzo, then dumped him, along with Crawford and Beckett, then signed a bunch of good guys and one great one, Koji... then inked Panda, Rusney, and Hanley to play LF. Dombrowski signed JD and Price, traded for Kimbrel, Sale, Eovaldi, Pearce.

 

Bloom traded Mookie, signed Story... so far. Maybe Whitlock develops into an All-Star something. Maybe Bloom locks up Wacha, who becomes this century's El Tiante.

[Old Red]

Seemingly, their main plan to fix it involves keeping everybody like Vaz, extend Bogey and Nate. Not locking up the under performing Bogey cast some sort of voodoo spell on the team, and then trading the clubhouse leader who helped lead us get to a losing record was the final dagger in team morale.

 

It's all on Bloom & Cora for not realizing we needed to keep this losing team intact and go large at the deadline on a team these guys have been bashing, all year as being poorly constructed. Like we were just 1-2 players away from a ring.

 

In all seriousness, I ask this question to the Bloom bashers: If we were just a couple big deadline moves away from competition for the ring, then just how bad could the roster have been constructed by Bloom over the last winter or few years?

 

Am I the only one seeing some sort of contradiction to this months/years long, Bloom bashing narrative?

 

Bloom bashers are bad bad people, but the Bloom (Jock) supporters burry their head in the sand, and think Bloom has had NOTHING to do with the Red Sox sitting at the kiddie table in last place in the Div. I for one has not said anything about extending Vaz, and I have also said that Bogey has not had a very good year with the bat after a good start, but to say he’s not a good leader, because he can’t hit is your interpretation. Of corse you are in the clubhouse, and you know what’s going on, and you don’t have a clue if team morale has anything to do with how a team plays. Nobody has said the team was two players away from a ring, but you keep repeating that, because that’s all you know. I guess it doesn’t bother the Bloom jocks to watch a clown show at first base for two months longer than it should, or the butterfly man in CF trying to track, and catch flyballs. I have said that the losing record of the team is in partly because most players haven’t performed the way they could have, and should have, but the Bloomers has said no such thing when it comes to blaming Bloom yet the blame for Bloom is loud, and clear out in the vast regions of Red Sox Nation. I for one would rather be a bad bad Bloom Basher than an Bloom supporter who thinks Bloom has done such a great job, and driven the team into last place in the process. To you it’s Bloom forever, and for me it’s ABB.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom bashers are bad bad people, but the Bloom (Jock) supporters burry their head in the sand, and think Bloom has had NOTHING to do with the Red Sox sitting at the kiddie table in last place in the Div.

 

And that's 100% false. Nobody has complained more about the Bradley trade than moon, for example.

[Old Red]

And that's 100% false. Nobody has complained more about the Bradley trade than moon, for example.

 

Bradley is the best example you can come up with where there was a long line with that one starting with 700.

[Old Red]

Bloom-bashers will say that's all nice, but we're still 60-62, and last in the division.

 

Really? Really? You think us bashers should pat Bloom on the back for this, and say nice job kid, and go get ‘em? Come On Man!