Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

The forum is really getting rich these days. Thanks for the entertainment. Can I be on someone's team? Everybody wants to be included somewhere. Much of the discussion here these days doesn't have much meaning for me. I'm far more interested in the way the game is actually played as opposed to constant rants about the people making the major decisions inspite of the fact that they don't play. I'm guessing that if this team was just a little bit entertaining to watch, there would actually be more discussion about how the bases are run, how the plays are made, stuff that happens on the field. If I didn't get a chuckle out of this forum, I don't think that I would even check the box score in the morning. So thanks guys and keep the good times rolling. by the way - not only am I a DD fan, I also think that JH could purchase just about anything that he wants to purchase. I still believe that there is a time to bunt, hit and run, in addition to stealing a base. Oh and I'm damned happy that Sale was signed to an extension and I think that you will be too. I also think that the people here who constantly go off about how DD ruined the farm are over doing it just a bit. Quantity does not make quality. He created a quality team by using the farm in one of the ways it is meant to be used. I liked all of his trades.

 

It's also possible to love almost all DD's trades and still realize the farm has produced very little since 2011, except the guys we traded for and whose team control have just about all run out or will, this winter. (Sale was extended.)

 

The farm DD left has ended up looking better than many felt it would be, and some of those who claimed he "ruined the farm" and some of us who took it for what it was have said so.

 

The fact is, next year, we will have Houck and then guys like Dalbec, Duran and a few others from the pre-Bloom farm as helpful players in 2023 and beyond. Of course, there is still time for many promising pre-Bloom players to make their mark, like Casas, Mata, Bello Rafael and others, but we are constantly told not to value the farm until they actually do something or get us something in trade.

 

Maybe we will see Bloom use the farm in the way it was meant to be, which isn't just through trades, but might very well need one or two to get back on top. DD kept Devers and a few others, and deserves a ton of credit for that. He didn't trade the whole farm away, as some hyperbolic posters claim. I'm not sure it was the healthy balance you and others seem to make it out to be, but as it turned out only a few prospects he gave up have done well or very well, and the 3 first place finishes and 2018 amazing season made living through the following down years worth it, to me.

 

The list of young and cost-controlled players and prospects that Theo left Ben, and Ben left DD far outshines the list DD left Bloom. I really have no problem with that, as it was worth it, but let's not sugarcoat what Bloom got.

 

He got a budget that demanded immediate heavy slashing.

He got a bunch of high-priced players than spent more time on the IL or watching their numbers decline than adding value.

He got a farm that ended up being better than expected, but has still only given him Houck in his 3 years at the helm.

 

These are facts not excuses.

Edited August 23, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

It's also possible to love almost all DD's trades and still realize the farm has produced very little since 2011, except the guys we traded for and whose team control have just about all run out or will, this winter. (Sale was extended.)

 

The farm DD left has ended up looking better than many felt it would be, and some of those who claimed he "ruined the farm" and some of us who took it for what it was have said so.

 

The fact is, next year, we will have Houck and then guys like Dalbec, Duran and a few others from the pre-Bloom farm as helpful players in 2023 and beyond. Of course, there is still time for many promising pre-Bloom players to make their mark, like Casas, Mata, Bello Rafael and others, but we are constantly told not to value the farm until they actually do something or get us something in trade.

 

Maybe we will see Bloom use the farm in the way it was meant to be, which isn't just through trades, but might very well need one or two to get back on top. DD kept Devers and a few others, and deserves a ton of credit for that. He didn't trade the whole farm away, as some hyperbolic posters claim. I'm not sure it was the healthy balance you and others seem to make it out to be, but as it turned out only a few prospects he gave up have done well or very well, and the 3 first place finishes and 2018 amazing season made living through the following down years worth it, to me.

Duran as a hopeful player in 2023? Well you didn’t say a productive player, so I’ll agree. Hope is the best you can do.

[dgalehouse]

Funny you mentioned Price and Sale his and their mega contracts as something not a mess.

 

ERod turned into a mess very quickly through no fault of Bloom. (Missed 2020, and thank God Bloom did not bring him back after his control ended.)

 

Plus, you named 11 names. The other 15 sucked or their time was up, and Bloom was given a negative budget sheet to fill those slots.

 

The oversimp0lification of the state of the team after 2019 is a blind spot for many Bloom bashers.

 

This is Bloom's third year. And things are going in the wrong direction. How much time does he need? Another thing that bothers me: Why is Price always used as the poster boy for bad contracts? In his four years with the Sox, he went 46-24. We won three division titles and one ring. We are still paying half his salary because that is what Bloom agreed to. Now, he is getting near the end of the line and will probably retire after this season. But even to this day, he is still better than some of the bums the Sox have been trotting out to the mound.

[Hugh2]

This is Bloom's third year. And things are going in the wrong direction. How much time does he need? Another thing that bothers me: Why is Price always used as the poster boy for bad contracts? In his four years with the Sox, he went 46-24. We won three division titles and one ring. We are still paying half his salary because that is what Bloom agreed to. Now, he is getting near the end of the line and will probably retire after this season. But even to this day, he is still better than some of the bums the Sox have been trotting out to the mound.

 

What direction was he going in last year?

[Hugh2]

Yes David Price would have helped this team with his 35 innings this year.

[moonslav59]

This is Bloom's third year. And things are going in the wrong direction. How much time does he need? Another thing that bothers me: Why is Price always used as the poster boy for bad contracts? In his four years with the Sox, he went 46-24. We won three division titles and one ring. We are still paying half his salary because that is what Bloom agreed to. Now, he is getting near the end of the line and will probably retire after this season. But even to this day, he is still better than some of the bums the Sox have been trotting out to the mound.

 

You honestly think inheriting Price was something Bloom could have gotten more out of?

 

He saved $16M a year on a guy that pitched 109 innings with LA in 3 years at a 118 ERA+.

 

"Even to this day..." lmao!

 

Price is used as the poster boy for how the end of long term contracts often work out, and it so happened the end of his contract was not during DD's reign, but Blooms.

 

Can you tell me how Bloom was expected to cut the 2019 budget as much as he did and produce a winner? Can you try to give some specifics?

 

He didn't tell JH he wanted massive budget cuts.

[Maxbialystock]

One thing that Bloom is Good at is alienating players in the clubhouse.

 

Do you have any evidence to support that other than not giving Bogey and Devers whatever salary they could possibly want or conceive of?

[moonslav59]

Yes David Price would have helped this team with his 35 innings this year.

 

Mind-boggling point.

[Old Red]

Do you have any evidence to support that other than not giving Bogey and Devers whatever salary they could possibly want or conceive of?

 

You think that the contract offer was the only thing to alienate the players in that clubhouse? Do you know what Bogey, or Raffy has even asked for?

[dgalehouse]

What direction was he going in last year?

 

I'll play along. Seemed to be going in the right direction last year. Finished tied for second place, eight games out of first. But what happened this year? Looks more like 2020. Only longer.

[jad]

The Bloom-apology-industrial-complex has worn me out. I'll just chalk it up to the general principle: whenever there is someone with power or money or authority running about, there will NEVER be a lack of sycophants and apologists.

[dgalehouse]

Yes David Price would have helped this team with his 35 innings this year.

 

Yes, but thirty-five pretty decent innings. I guess he could have pitched more if needed. But the Dodgers have an actual pitching staff. Oh, and they also have Mookie Betts. And the best record in MLB. How are the Sox doing?

[dgalehouse]

Mind-boggling point.

 

What is more mind boggling is how anyone can think Bloom is doing a good job .

[Bellhorn04]

The Bloom-apology-industrial-complex has worn me out. I'll just chalk it up to the general principle: whenever there is someone with power or money or authority running about, there will NEVER be a lack of sycophants and apologists.

 

Most of the guys who bash Bloom seem to be DD sycophants and apologists.

[Old Red]

I'll play along. Seemed to be going in the right direction last year. Finished tied for second place, eight games out of first. But what happened this year? Looks more like 2020. Only longer.

 

He did good as it turns out with acquisitions like Whitlock, Kike, and Renfroe in 2021, but then Renfroe, and his 96 RBI wasn’t good enough so he got rid of him at the excitement of getting prospects, and made the team worse in the process.

[Old Red]

Most of the guys who bash Bloom seem to be DD sycophants and apologists.

 

What are the Bloom apologist?

[dgalehouse]

Most of the guys who bash Bloom seem to be DD sycophants and apologists.

 

Maybe we just like to see good baseball.

[moonslav59]

I'll play along. Seemed to be going in the right direction last year. Finished tied for second place, eight games out of first. But what happened this year? Looks more like 2020. Only longer.

 

2022 MLB team > 2020 MLB team

2022 Farm >>> 2020 Farm

2022/2023 less dead money on the books> 2020 dead money totals

 

Let's gloss over the facts a little, right?

 

2020 saw the worst winning% since 1964 (.400).

 

2020's .492 winning % is about the Sox 40th worst record of all time and 10th worst since 1965.

 

.400 in 2020

.426 in 2012

.438 in 2014

.481 in 2015

 

It's nothing to brag about, for sure, but playing in the toughest division in MLB with all the injuries and declines by virtually every returning vet, most of whom are DD guys, .492 is not all that horrific.

[Maxbialystock]

This is Bloom's third year. And things are going in the wrong direction. How much time does he need? Another thing that bothers me: Why is Price always used as the poster boy for bad contracts? In his four years with the Sox, he went 46-24. We won three division titles and one ring. We are still paying half his salary because that is what Bloom agreed to. Now, he is getting near the end of the line and will probably retire after this season. But even to this day, he is still better than some of the bums the Sox have been trotting out to the mound.

 

I take it you believe the injuries to the pitching staff have no bearing on the team ERA which is next to worst in the AL and that ERA in turn has no bearing on being 2 games below .500? To remind--for the thousandth time--the Sox are paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M and all together they have contributed a combined WAR of 1.0 this season.

 

About Price. His combined/total WAR in his so far six seasons @$30M/year = $180M is 11.0, which means the Sox and Dodgers have/are paid/paying him $16M for every 1 WAR of performance. How about Mookie, you ask? In his 5 1/3 seasons with the Sox he was paid $33M in return for which he delivered seasons of 2.3 WAR, 6.1 WAR, 9.5 WAR, 6.4 WAR, 10.7 WAR, and 7.3 WAR--a total of 42.3 WAR. The Sox paid him $33M for all 5 seasons. He's now on his 3d season @$30M per season ($365M for 12 seasons), and so far he's delivered a combined WAR of 2.6, 3.7, and 3.6--10 WAR total. So the Dodgers have paid him $90M to deliver a total WAR of 10. That's better than Price, but still woeful in comparison to what the Sox got for him.

 

About your claim that Price is better than the Sox "bums." Last year and this year the Sox paid or are paying him $16M each year to deliver a WAR of +0.6 for last year and the .+0.6 this year.

 

Among Sox starters this year, Wacha's WAR is 3.2, Pivetta's is 2.6, Whitlock's (yes, he was a starter) is 1.8, Houck's is 1.6, Eovaldi's is .9, Crawford's is .5, Hill's and Winckowski's are both .1, and Sale's is 0 (for which he is getting $30M). So, me, I'm thinking I'll take your bet. Oh, wait. You didn't bet anything.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe we just like to see good baseball.

 

But it's funny how you DD guys also ignore his 14 title-free years in Detroit and things like that.

[moonslav59]

What is more mind boggling is how anyone can think Bloom is doing a good job .

 

On farm building, yes.

 

On ridding the budget of much of the dead money, yes.

 

On improving the MLB roster from 2020 to 2022, yes.

 

On the 2022 team results, nobody is saying that, except your strawman.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

What are the Bloom apologist?

 

Odd post.

[notin]

He did good as it turns out with acquisitions like Whitlock, Kike, and Renfroe in 2021, but then Renfroe, and his 96 RBI wasn’t good enough so he got rid of him at the excitement of getting prospects, and made the team worse in the process.

 

The defensive upgrades meant nothing?

 

Bradley was an upgrade over Renfroe. Story was an upgrade over Arroyo/Chavis/Iglesias. Story’s RBI pace (58 in 81 games) was an upgrade over Renfroe’s numbers…

[Old Red]

What is more mind boggling is how anyone can think Bloom is doing a good job .

 

Every leader good, or BAD like Bloom has followers good job, or not.

[notin]

You think that the contract offer was the only thing to alienate the players in that clubhouse? Do you know what Bogey, or Raffy has even asked for?

 

Ok, I’ll bite.

 

What other things did Bloom do to alienate the clubhouse?

 

And we don’t know what Bogaerts asked for because there was no counter offer, something you defended because you perceived X to be insulted, but in reality is a years-long Scott Boras negotiation tactic…

[Old Red]

The defensive upgrades meant nothing?

 

Bradley was an upgrade over Renfroe. Story was an upgrade over Arroyo/Chavis/Iglesias. Story’s RBI pace (58 in 81 games) was an upgrade over Renfroe’s numbers…

The upgrades were so good the team went from a few games away from the WS to last place in the Division, and a losing record to boot.

[Bobe2]

You honestly think inheriting Price was something Bloom could have gotten more out of?

 

He saved $16M a year on a guy that pitched 109 innings with LA in 3 years at a 118 ERA+.

 

"Even to this day..." lmao!

 

Price is used as the poster boy for how the end of long term contracts often work out, and it so happened the end of his contract was not during DD's reign, but Blooms.

 

Can you tell me how Bloom was expected to cut the 2019 budget as much as he did and produce a winner? Can you try to give some specifics?

 

He didn't tell JH he wanted massive budget cuts.

 

2019 budget $236,000,000 2020 budget $189,000,000, 2021 budget $$209,000,000

2022 budget $239,000,000 he cut the budget, now it’s higher than when he took over so why aren’t we competitive, where did he spend the money it doesn’t show on the field, and the woosox are a .500 team

[Old Red]

2019 budget $236,000,000 2020 budget $189,000,000, 2021 budget $$209,000,000

2022 budget $239,000,000 he cut the budget, now it’s higher than when he took over so why aren’t we competitive, where did he spend the money it doesn’t show on the field, and the woosox are a .500 team

 

Yeh, but the farm system ranking is better. It doesn’t matter if the big league club is better.

[Bellhorn04]

2019 budget $236,000,000 2020 budget $189,000,000, 2021 budget $$209,000,000

2022 budget $239,000,000 he cut the budget, now it’s higher than when he took over so why aren’t we competitive, where did he spend the money it doesn’t show on the field, and the woosox are a .500 team

 

Have you ever looked at what makes up the payroll number for this year?

[notin]

2019 budget $236,000,000 2020 budget $189,000,000, 2021 budget $$209,000,000

2022 budget $239,000,000 he cut the budget, now it’s higher than when he took over so why aren’t we competitive, where did he spend the money it doesn’t show on the field, and the woosox are a .500 team

 

A big chunk of that money ($104 mill) is tied up on Sale, Price, Eovaldi, Bogaerts and Martinez, none of whom Bloom signed…