Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Ok, how was it "an" outlier if he performed even better two seasons prior?

 

By fWAR and your chose stats, but not by BWAR, ERA, ERA- and some others.

[mvp 78]

By fWAR and your chose stats, but not by BWAR, ERA, ERA- and some others.

 

ERA, really?

[moonslav59]

ERA, really?

 

OK, bWAR and ERA-, why skip over those?

[notin]

Where am I trying to force anything?

 

I started my point with "maybe," and we all know most players would take a contract $10M more than another, unless if talking about $360M/12 vs $350M/12.

 

Maybe it does cause TBR to counter with enough to land him there longer, but it's not absurd to think we might have signed him had we started with an offer of $50M/3 or $55M/4

 

Or we’d be making the same posts with $70mill over 4. Eflin didn’t want Boston. He wanted Tampa…

[Bellhorn04]

Or we’d be making the same posts with $70mill over 4. Eflin didn’t want Boston. He wanted Tampa…

 

Do we have a quote from Mr. Eflin on that?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

The limited budget forced Bloom's hand in 2020 and to some extent in 2021.

 

 

You've said that a lot the past few years. But has it occurred to you that maybe he just likes holding out a half-curled hand, maybe only with a half-crooked pinky and index finger extended, like a failed audition for an extra in a Big Bang ComicCon episode... "Live short and perspire"... the buzz could be in the challenge for a bored fantasy league team-builder-turned-MLB-CBO.

[oldtimer]

So should Bloom or Cora be worried going into 2024? I am personally not advocating Bloom should go unless he lays an egg for the 2024 season. I have mixed feeling about Cora and whether he is getting all the available wins out of his team.

[moonslav59]

You've said that a lot the past few years. But has it occurred to you that maybe he just likes holding out a half-curled hand, maybe only with a half-crooked pinky and index finger extended, like a failed audition for an extra in a Big Bang ComicCon episode... "Live short and perspire"... the buzz could be in the challenge for a bored fantasy league team-builder-turned-MLB-CBO.

 

Well said, but I have to dismiss this, out of hand (open or half opened.)

 

I can't see why Bloom would willingly create an inferior team by leaving a lot of money on the table.

[moonslav59]

So should Bloom or Cora be worried going into 2024? I am personally not advocating Bloom should go unless he lays an egg for the 2024 season. I have mixed feeling about Cora and whether he is getting all the available wins out of his team.

 

I know what many here think, but I am almost certain both Cora and Bloom's jobs are safe.

[Randy Red Sox]

I know what many here think, but I am almost certain both Cora and Bloom's jobs are safe.

 

sadly you are probably right about both but read my next post.

[Randy Red Sox]

This was posted on X today and I am posting it word by word:

 

The Chaim Bloom plan:

!} Sign the worst starting pitching imaginable

2}Lose 95% of all trades made

3} Historically undersvalue defence.

4}Draft one or two decent prospects every summer

5} But never Pitching

6} Set the bar at the third wild card

7} Wait 5-6 years

8} Get destroyed by the Bastards of Boston podcast on a nightly basis

[a700hitter]

Phillies per game attendance has increased by almost 10,000 this season, but they are very upset about what DD is doing to the farm system. LOL!

[moonslav59]

This was posted on X today and I am posting it word by word:

 

The Chaim Bloom plan:

2}Lose 95% of all trades made

 

Had to trade 1 year of Betts and got 5 years of Dugo and 5 years of Wong. I'm sure you call this a bad trade, despite a gun being held to his head.

 

Beni for Wink & Gambrell is not over yet, and the money saved helped us sign Renfroe. You must count this as a loss and not an incomplete, right?

 

Springs and Mazza for RHern- a clear loss.

 

2 months of Workman & Hembree (who both sucked afterwards) for Pivetta: You call this a loss?

 

Renfroe for JBJ and DHam & Binelas- I'd say this is far enough along to not expect much from DHam, so calling this a loss is fine by me. (I'm still scratching my head.)

 

Nothing for 1 year of Ottavino & F German (then German for Denlinger)

 

Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber- really? A loss?

 

Diekman for McGuire- was good if only as a salary dump- no dispute

 

Groome for Hosmer, Cory Rosier (looking real good) & Max Ferguson

 

2 months of Vaz for Abreu and EValdez- a loss? Really?

 

Cash for Reyes- a loss?

 

Blaylock for Urias?

 

(Some of the above could be called "minor.")

 

Minor trades:

Moreland for Rosario & Potts

Pillar for Jacob Wallace for Wyatt Mills

Scherff for Robles

Northcutt for Pham

JTaylor for Mondesi

Barnes & $ for Bleier

 

I'm not seeing anything close to 95%. Most are pushes.

 

 

[iortiz]

Phillies per game attendance has increased by almost 10,000 this season, but they are very upset about what DD is doing to the farm system. LOL!

 

DD is arguably a HOF GM

[Randy Red Sox]

Had to trade 1 year of Betts and got 5 years of Dugo and 5 years of Wong. I'm sure you call this a bad trade, despite a gun being held to his head.

 

Beni for Wink & Gambrell is not over yet, and the money saved helped us sign Renfroe. You must count this as a loss and not an incomplete, right?

 

Springs and Mazza for RHern- a clear loss.

 

2 months of Workman & Hembree (who both sucked afterwards) for Pivetta: You call this a loss?

 

Renfroe for JBJ and DHam & Binelas- I'd say this is far enough along to not expect much from DHam, so calling this a loss is fine by me. (I'm still scratching my head.)

 

Nothing for 1 year of Ottavino & F German (then German for Denlinger)

 

Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber- really? A loss?

 

Diekman for McGuire- was good if only as a salary dump- no dispute

 

Groome for Hosmer, Cory Rosier (looking real good) & Max Ferguson

 

2 months of Vaz for Abreu and EValdez- a loss? Really?

 

Cash for Reyes- a loss?

 

Blaylock for Urias?

 

(Some of the above could be called "minor.")

 

Minor trades:

Moreland for Rosario & Potts

Pillar for Jacob Wallace for Wyatt Mills

Scherff for Robles

Northcutt for Pham

JTaylor for Mondesi

Barnes & $ for Bleier

 

I'm not seeing anything close to 95%. Most are pushes.

 

 

 

I never said I agreed with all of those points. I'd say Bloom is about 40% on his trades but I certainly agree with #'s 1,3,4,5,6.

[moonslav59]

I never said I agreed with all of those points. I'd say Bloom is about 40% on his trades but I certainly agree with #'s 1,3,4,5,6.

 

Sounds familiar.

 

Someone reposts something, then disavows it's meaning.

 

At least comment on what you don't agree with when reposting, please.

[moonslav59]

Most are minor or pushes, but if you throw those out, I see:

 

Plus:

1. Pivetta

2. Ottavino & German (Denlinger)

3. Schwarber

4. McGuire

5. Abreu & EValdez (or incomplete)

6. Reyes (or minor deal)

Count it as 5 wins

 

Incomplete:

1. Wink & Gambrell

2. Rosier

3. Urias

 

Minus

1. JBJ, DHam & Binelas

2. RHern

Just 2 clearly bad trades, but I'm sure many will list Dugo/Wong, here for 3.

 

I left the Betts trade unscored, because it was forced and in some regards a good deal, when you consider 1 year of Betts for 10 years of Dugo+Wong.

[Duran Is The Man]

Most are minor or pushes, but if you throw those out, I see:

 

Plus:

1. Pivetta

2. Ottavino & German (Denlinger)

3. Schwarber

4. McGuire

5. Abreu & EValdez (or incomplete)

6. Reyes (or minor deal)

Count it as 5 wins

 

Incomplete:

1. Wink & Gambrell

2. Rosier

3. Urias

 

Minus

1. JBJ, DHam & Binelas

2. RHern

Just 2 clearly bad trades, but I'm sure many will list Dugo/Wong, here for 3.

 

I left the Betts trade unscored, because it was forced and in some regards a good deal, when you consider 1 year of Betts for 10 years of Dugo+Wong.

 

Mookie's bwar since the trade: 21.9, Verdugo's is 9.1 and Wong's is 2.4. i have nothing against Alex and Connor but 11.5 is still quite a bit less than 21.9. and i don't give a f*** what anybody says, forced or not, that's the worst gotdamn trade in Red Sox history. and nothing short of a career-ending injury by Mookie will change that.

[moonslav59]

Mookie's bwar since the trade: 21.9, Verdugo's is 9.1 and Wong's is 2.4. i have nothing against Alex and Connor but 11.5 is still quite a bit less than 21.9. and i don't give a f*** what anybody says, forced or not, that's the worst gotdamn trade in Red Sox history. and nothing short of a career-ending injury by Mookie will change that.

 

You are counting the trade and signing.

 

This is about just trades.

 

We were not extending Betts, so it's not like you can count that, anyway.

 

That's like saying the Sale trade sucked, when it was a great one. It was the extension that sucked.

[Randy Red Sox]

Sounds familiar.

 

Someone reposts something, then disavows it's meaning.

 

At least comment on what you don't agree with when reposting, please.

 

I think I was pretty clear that the ONLY thing I didnt agree with was that Bloom has lost 95% of his trades. I CLEARLY stated I feel he won about 40% of his trades. Several of the trades you posted were insignificant and it is not worth judging those. Everything else in that post I agreed with. Is that clear enough?? Perhaps you would like to re-read my post.

[moonslav59]

I think I was pretty clear that the ONLY thing I didnt agree with was that Bloom has lost 95% of his trades. I CLEARLY stated I feel he won about 40% of his trades. Several of the trades you posted were insignificant and it is not worth judging those. Everything else in that post I agreed with. Is that clear enough?? Perhaps you would like to re-read my post.

 

Sorry for sounding testy.

[Randy Red Sox]

Sorry for sounding testy.

 

all forgiven

[Bellhorn04]

This was posted on X today and I am posting it word by word:

 

The Chaim Bloom plan:

!} Sign the worst starting pitching imaginable

2}Lose 95% of all trades made

3} Historically undersvalue defence.

4}Draft one or two decent prospects every summer

5} But never Pitching

6} Set the bar at the third wild card

7} Wait 5-6 years

8} Get destroyed by the Bastards of Boston podcast on a nightly basis

 

Like moon I disagree about the trades, but the rest, sadly, seems about right.

[Bellhorn04]

Most are minor or pushes, but if you throw those out, I see:

 

Plus:

1. Pivetta

2. Ottavino & German (Denlinger)

3. Schwarber

4. McGuire

5. Abreu & EValdez (or incomplete)

6. Reyes (or minor deal)

Count it as 5 wins

 

Incomplete:

1. Wink & Gambrell

2. Rosier

3. Urias

 

Minus

1. JBJ, DHam & Binelas

2. RHern

Just 2 clearly bad trades, but I'm sure many will list Dugo/Wong, here for 3.

 

I left the Betts trade unscored, because it was forced and in some regards a good deal, when you consider 1 year of Betts for 10 years of Dugo+Wong.

 

A nasty thought has occurred to me: although Bloom has made some good moves as documented by you, he has yet to make a single acquisition that is what you can call a legit star player, a 3-4 WAR guy - not even for one full season, I don't think.

 

The 2023 Red Sox don't have a single player with an fWAR higher than 2.6.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie's bwar since the trade: 21.9, Verdugo's is 9.1 and Wong's is 2.4. i have nothing against Alex and Connor but 11.5 is still quite a bit less than 21.9. and i don't give a f*** what anybody says, forced or not, that's the worst gotdamn trade in Red Sox history. and nothing short of a career-ending injury by Mookie will change that.

 

That trade has to be evaluated with a lot of context, though. I'll always believe only ownership can make the decision to make a trade like that. Bloom was tasked to execute the trade, and it was a tough one to make, because the Dodgers were only getting one guaranteed year, and paying $27 mill for it, plus of course they threw in $45 mill for the remains of Price. I don't think any other teams were lining up to do that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

A nasty thought has occurred to me: although Bloom has made some good moves as documented by you, he has yet to make a single acquisition that is what you can call a legit star player, a 3-4 WAR guy - not even for one full season, I don't think.

 

The 2023 Red Sox don't have a single player with an fWAR higher than 2.6.

 

This point has been underrated -- at least here, where some give Bloom so much credit, over and over, for outsmarting other clubs to get Whitlock, an oft-injured pitcher whose best year was as a rookie set-up man, and Pivetta, a #5 starter better as a bulk guy.

 

Who were even above-average in a skill? Here's a few we hardly knew: Wacha (IL risk: he must pitch for a living), Schwarber the HR king (where would the Sox play a bad fielder?), Renfroe -- power with strong arm (and BO or something that moved him to six teams in five years), and Turner... raise your hand if you really think Bloom will pay the adjusted market rate it will take to keep him.

 

At least the Red Sox' best player -- Chris Martin -- is still signed for another season (when he'll be 38).

[moonslav59]

A nasty thought has occurred to me: although Bloom has made some good moves as documented by you, he has yet to make a single acquisition that is what you can call a legit star player, a 3-4 WAR guy - not even for one full season, I don't think.

 

The 2023 Red Sox don't have a single player with an fWAR higher than 2.6.

 

The whole quantity vs quality thing- I agree. It's not just 2023, either. I try to convince myself this is all part of a plan- I like plans- to build the foundation, but I'm nos so sure, anymore.

 

2020-2023 highest fWARs on Sox

6.0 Bogey '22

4.8 Devers '22

4.3 Bogey '21

4.2 Devers '21

4.0 Kike '21

2.8 JD '21

2.6 Devers '23 and counting

2.6 Verdugo '23 and counting

 

2.4 Story '22 in just over half a season

2.3 Duran '23 in 102 gms

2.2 Duvall '23 in less than half a season

2.2 Renfroe '21

1.9 Verdugo '21

1.9 Verdugo '20 in short season

1.7 Vaz '22 in 84 gms

1.7 Casas '23

1.7 Turner '23 and counting

 

Pitching

5.7 Nate '21

3.9 ERod '21

2.3 Pivetta '21

2.3 Houck '21 (and people wonder why we won in '21!)

1.8 Sale '23

1.8 Hill '22

1.8 Schreiber '22

1.7 Bello '23 and counting

1.6 Whitlock another '21

1.6 Crawford '23 and counting

1.5 Wacha '22

1.5 Pivetta '22

1.4 Whitlock '22

1.3 Barnes '21

1.3 Bello '22

1.3 Martin '23

1.1 Jansen '23

1.1 Richards '21

1.1 Paxton '23 and counting (backwards?)

[moonslav59]

This point has been underrated -- at least here, where some give Bloom so much credit, over and over, for outsmarting other clubs to get Whitlock, an oft-injured pitcher whose best year was as a rookie set-up man, and Pivetta, a #5 starter better as a bulk guy.

 

Who were even above-average in a skill? Here's a few we hardly knew: Wacha (IL risk: he must pitch for a living), Schwarber the HR king (where would the Sox play a bad fielder?), Renfroe -- power with strong arm (and BO or something that moved him to six teams in five years), and Turner... raise your hand if you really think Bloom will pay the adjusted market rate it will take to keep him.

 

At least the Red Sox' best player -- Chris Martin -- is still signed for another season (when he'll be 38).

 

See my list with Bloom guys highlighted in red. (Wink & Wong did not make the list.)

 

Yes, a lot of mediocrity and slightly better, but no real major find or get.

 

Perhaps Story could have been without injury. Perhaps Duvall.

 

Kike was one and done.

 

Hill did fine, but he doesn't jump out at us.

[mvp 78]

This was posted on X today and I am posting it word by word:

 

The Chaim Bloom plan:

!} Sign the worst starting pitching imaginable

2}Lose 95% of all trades made

3} Historically undersvalue defence.

4}Draft one or two decent prospects every summer

5} But never Pitching

6} Set the bar at the third wild card

7} Wait 5-6 years

8} Get destroyed by the Bastards of Boston podcast on a nightly basis

 

2 is incorrect

4 is underselling the drafting

8 who? like who gives a s*** about a podcast?

[mvp 78]

DD is arguably a HOF GM

 

He is. Can't build a bullpen though.