Fire Bloom .

[Elktonnick]

I have never said I think Bloom is a great or even good GM. You assume I do because I have defended him often.

 

I don't see everything as black and white, but that does not mean I am a man of no or ever-changing convictions. I have been wrong many times and freely admit it.

 

I no longer think Cora is the greatest, but I did after 2018. If that makes my convictions meaningless, to you, so be it.

 

You find one statement I have made that said Bloom was or has been a good GM. I have pointed out areas he has seemed to do well, like rebuilding the farm, but even there, I have qualified that by saying it is based a lot on speculation. I have graded out his moves and deals, several times, and usually come out at somewhere between a B- and C-, based on when I was grading and the results, at that time. Sounds like a ringing endorsement, to ou, I guess.

 

I have often pointed out the context for many of Bloom's choices, like the idea that it was not his idea to trade Betts, and that there were not dozens of trade offers for him, once it was clear he was going to be traded. You see that as a ringing endorsement of Bloom, but I see it as just stating what I think is true and is actually a neutral view on Bloom. Same with choices made due to the fact that he has 10-20 slots to fill and a small winter budget to try and win with- again- neutral. I see a GM put in an impossible situation and doing about what I would expect- no better- now worse. You see that as my being in love with the guy. I don't.

 

If they make him the fall guy for the an organizational plan, as I feel they did to some extent with Ben, I won't be surprised. Bloom knew what he was getting into, so I won't feel sorry for him, if they can him.

 

If they keep him around, I won't be upset with him, if they limit his spending, this winter.

 

I said last winter was his "legacy" winter and a "make or break" time in his era. He failed. That will be his legacy. I'm not sure it will be the "break," but it's not my call.

 

I think he should have spent more on pitching. I think he should have made a trade for a young and solid pitcher, by now. That's my opinion. It hasn't changed or waivered, but that does not mean I can't or won't try to understand why it did not happened. If it was all Bloom's call, then it's on him. I'd be right in line with you and others calling for his firing. If it was the organization that decided to concentrate nearly all their priorities on building up a foundation on the 26 man roster, the 40 man roster and the farm, before splurging (money and prospects) on pitching, then why would anyone blame the GM?

 

I don't know what the plan has been or is now. We all know it hasn't worked for the big club since DD's last year, here, which is now 5 years, and that is all that seems to matter to you and your posse, but I try to look deeper. Again, if Bloom convinced upper brass that losing for 5 years was needed, I'd say it was not a good plan, and did not need to last 5 years, but to me, it looks like this has been the ownership group's call, all along- starting with a major shift in focus while DD was still here.

 

DD could not win under that new direction, either, but you would never dream of blaming him for 2019- yet the blame game runs rampant in today's society, and you and your posse excel at it. Hurray for you!

 

The great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges traced the idea back to Aristotle but I think your posts are a prime example of the concept i.e of the infinite number of monkeys eventually writing Shakespeare..

[moonslav59]

You make some good points here and I have felt all along that he has been handcuffed by John Henry. I remember the talk when Bloom was hired that he would bring a balanced approach coming from Tampa in that he would cut costs but be able to spend when needed as this is not a small market like Tampa. So he DID cut payroll drastically but he has still spent some $$ although I am not sure how well he spent those $$. His big sign was Story who in my view was an UNMITIGATED disaster. I think most of us believe that signing was made because they knew they would not be keeping Xander.

 

All that aside my biggest disappointment has been his inability to add any young quality SP. That was and still is one of Tampa's strengths but Bloom brought none of that to Boston. IMO he could have used the Mookie trade, and trading our impending FA'S from last year who all walked for next to nothing. He has also not used any high draft picks to add quality young pitching. This is his biggest fault in my view and I don't see any pitching prospects he has brought in as close to MLB ready. I think our farm system although improved on his watch is over-rated. I'd fire him after this year but have little faith that any new GM can do any better under this ownership's current philosophy.

 

I have agreed that many of his major deals have been failures (JBJ "head-scratcher, Richards, Kluber and other less major ones) or have started out that way (Story and maybe Yoshi.)

 

As for pitching prospects he brought in:

Whitlock (MLB, now)

Winckowski (MLB, now)

Kelly (MLB, ow but on 60 day IL)

Gambrell (MLB in 2024?)

 

But, I agree, the farm hopes and Bello are mostly DD remnants, except for ...

 

Drohan- on the downslide

 

Some promise: Monegro, E R-C, Dobbins. Guerrero (RP), Hoppe. Rogers, ICoffey, Troye, Paez, Penrod, BBell, M Duffy.

 

He has some major holes in his resume. I've never defended every aspect of his record or his assembled depth chart. We are sorely lacking at pitching, which happens to be very important, if not most important. I had hopes his budget was large enough, this past winter, to address it more fully and to concentrate more on quality over quantity, but for some reason, we keep working on depth (which did not work out well, either) over spending the same amount but on less players/slots.

 

I keep hoping that changes. I expected it, last winter. I was disappointed.

 

That being said, I do think the foundation is better going into 2024 than it was going into 2023, despite losing Paxton, JT and Duvall. (We also lost Kike, Mondesi, Brasier, Bleier and others.) I'm not going to be optimistic about a change, this coming winter. I can't figure out what the timetable is or if there even is a grand plan, except to build up the farm and maybe never spend more than $140M on anyone ever again.

 

 

[moonslav59]

The great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges traced the idea back to Aristotle but I think your posts are a prime example of the concept i.e of the infinite number of monkeys eventually writing Shakespeare..

 

Blah, blah, blah...

[notin]

The great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges traced the idea back to Aristotle but I think your posts are a prime example of the concept i.e of the infinite number of monkeys eventually writing Shakespeare..

 

And sometimes yours are proof of a small number simply flinging poop;)

[a700hitter]

Blah, blah, blah...

You have finally learned to be concise.

[Duran Is The Man]

I have never said I think Bloom is a great or even good GM. You assume I do because I have defended him often.

 

I don't see everything as black and white, but that does not mean I am a man of no or ever-changing convictions. I have been wrong many times and freely admit it.

 

I no longer think Cora is the greatest, but I did after 2018. If that makes my convictions meaningless, to you, so be it.

 

You find one statement I have made that said Bloom was or has been a good GM. I have pointed out areas he has seemed to do well, like rebuilding the farm, but even there, I have qualified that by saying it is based a lot on speculation. I have graded out his moves and deals, several times, and usually come out at somewhere between a B- and C-, based on when I was grading and the results, at that time. Sounds like a ringing endorsement, to ou, I guess.

 

I have often pointed out the context for many of Bloom's choices, like the idea that it was not his idea to trade Betts, and that there were not dozens of trade offers for him, once it was clear he was going to be traded. You see that as a ringing endorsement of Bloom, but I see it as just stating what I think is true and is actually a neutral view on Bloom. Same with choices made due to the fact that he has 10-20 slots to fill and a small winter budget to try and win with- again- neutral. I see a GM put in an impossible situation and doing about what I would expect- no better- now worse. You see that as my being in love with the guy. I don't.

 

If they make him the fall guy for the an organizational plan, as I feel they did to some extent with Ben, I won't be surprised. Bloom knew what he was getting into, so I won't feel sorry for him, if they can him.

 

If they keep him around, I won't be upset with him, if they limit his spending, this winter.

 

I said last winter was his "legacy" winter and a "make or break" time in his era. He failed. That will be his legacy. I'm not sure it will be the "break," but it's not my call.

 

I think he should have spent more on pitching. I think he should have made a trade for a young and solid pitcher, by now. That's my opinion. It hasn't changed or waivered, but that does not mean I can't or won't try to understand why it did not happened. If it was all Bloom's call, then it's on him. I'd be right in line with you and others calling for his firing. If it was the organization that decided to concentrate nearly all their priorities on building up a foundation on the 26 man roster, the 40 man roster and the farm, before splurging (money and prospects) on pitching, then why would anyone blame the GM?

 

I don't know what the plan has been or is now. We all know it hasn't worked for the big club since DD's last year, here, which is now 5 years, and that is all that seems to matter to you and your posse, but I try to look deeper. Again, if Bloom convinced upper brass that losing for 5 years was needed, I'd say it was not a good plan, and did not need to last 5 years, but to me, it looks like this has been the ownership group's call, all along- starting with a major shift in focus while DD was still here.

 

DD could not win under that new direction, either, but you would never dream of blaming him for 2019- yet the blame game runs rampant in today's society, and you and your posse excel at it. Hurray for you!

 

 

apparently i'm part of this "posse" myself. LOL. i had no idea. you know how i feel about Bloom and i'd fire him today if i was JH. at the same time, if DD were still here and done EXACTLY what Bloom has done, i'd fire him too. but that's just me. i can only take so much s***** pitching, s***** fundamentals and losing. and instead of trying to be "Tampa North" maybe JH should try to be "Atlanta North". 21 NL east titles since 1991 with jsut one last place finish in that same time period and their payroll consistently runs about 10th.

[mvp 78]

Not a chance. Nothing like rushing the kid. Let him play AA next year and AAA in 2025 with a September callup.

 

He won’t need that much time.

[mvp 78]

apparently i'm part of this "posse" myself. LOL. i had no idea. you know how i feel about Bloom and i'd fire him today if i was JH. at the same time, if DD were still here and done EXACTLY what Bloom has done, i'd fire him too. but that's just me. i can only take so much s***** pitching, s***** fundamentals and losing. and instead of trying to be "Tampa North" maybe JH should try to be "Atlanta North". 21 NL east titles since 1991 with jsut one last place finish in that same time period and their payroll consistently runs about 10th.

Atlanta is probably the best model right now. LAD is up there for sure. TB only works because of their black magic the do on pitcher’s that also blows out their arms a year later.

[notin]

You have finally learned to be concise.

 

Sorry, moon, but this line is funny…

[moonslav59]

apparently i'm part of this "posse" myself. LOL. i had no idea. you know how i feel about Bloom and i'd fire him today if i was JH. at the same time, if DD were still here and done EXACTLY what Bloom has done, i'd fire him too. but that's just me. i can only take so much s***** pitching, s***** fundamentals and losing. and instead of trying to be "Tampa North" maybe JH should try to be "Atlanta North". 21 NL east titles since 1991 with jsut one last place finish in that same time period and their payroll consistently runs about 10th.

 

Sorry for lumping you in with the "posse." That was wrong of me.

 

You don't twist what others say into strawmen, and I appreciate that.

 

Me, I think Bloom has set us on the right path, except for improving the pitching enough to make me feel confident we will get "there" soon.

 

He hasn't traded any good ones away, and the most promising ones he did trade were maybe Aldo Ramirez, Jay Groome, Frank German and then the Rule 5 loss of TWard and Song, that may not be as bad as some thought it might be.

 

When you look at the Sox system since Lester, the issue was around long before Bloom and even DD. That's no excuse. In fact, it should have been a wake up call to focus our GMs on that very issue and to fix it.

 

That being said, since Bloom took over, some of DD's pitchers and his own have made a bigger impact than I have seen in a long time. Bello may not be the next Lester, but he looks to be the closest thing to him than we have seen in a decade or more.

 

2020: Houck

2021: Whitlock

2022-2023: Crawford & Winckowski

2023: Bello

 

Other teams have done better: some have done way better, but this is an improvement, and I'm not sure expecting massive and quick improvement should have been the expectation.

 

I know, I know, 4 years is a lot of time, and yes, the farm should have more promising arms, by now, than it seems to have. That's a big hit on Bloom's "ace in the hole:" farm building. I get that.

 

I would not be upset or shocked, if he is canned. He'd be an easy scapegoat for JH and Co. I'm not sure, if he is capable of producing more Bellos or adding established pitchers via free agency or trade. That's enough to justify your opinion and others.

 

Like I have said, there is plenty to blame Bloom for, so why do people have to invent some that are not his fault or mostly his fault? That is what gets me to try and explain the context or deeper reasons (rightly or wrongly.)

 

[moonslav59]

Sorry, moon, but this line is funny…

 

It was. No need to be sorry.

 

[moonslav59]

Atlanta is probably the best model right now. LAD is up there for sure. TB only works because of their black magic the do on pitcher’s that also blows out their arms a year later.

 

HOU got to this level by tanking and firesales, but they have become a model on how to stay competitive, while losing top studs to free agency over and over. (Kinda like ATL losing Freeman and others before him.)

 

When you keep winning, nobody cries over losing Springer, Cole, Correa, Verlander...

 

Seriously, I'm here in Houston: nobody is crying and hardly anyone did, at the time these guys bolted for nothing but comp picks.

[Duran Is The Man]

HOU got to this level by tanking and firesales, but they have become a model on how to stay competitive, while losing top studs to free agency over and over. (Kinda like ATL losing Freeman and others before him.)

 

When you keep winning, nobody cries over losing Springer, Cole, Correa, Verlander...

 

Seriously, I'm here in Houston: nobody is crying and hardly anyone did, at the time these guys bolted for nothing but comp picks.

 

i'm not in Houston but i can see that. if we had done the same, there'd be very little bitching and moaning about losing Mookie (myself included).

[moonslav59]

i'm not in Houston but i can see that. if we had done the same, there'd be very little bitching and moaning about losing Mookie (myself included).

 

Agreed, and we saw it for a little while in 2021.

 

In some ways, I think 2021 raised the fan expectations by getting us to believe the rebuild was done, and we'd only improve on that season. We then added Wacha, Hill and Strahm while dumping Richards and Perez, yet the staff did worse. We added Story, and his injury and lack of consistent production, when healthy did not help the O. Follow that up with losing big name guys like Bogey, JD and Vaz, despite their recent declines or sporadic production, and the death spiral continued.

[Hugh2]

Bloom may have done a decent job at building the farm, and I don't disapprove of him at the same level as most, but if he doesn't grow the balls to fix the rotation this offseason he's just not the right guy for the job to take this team to the next level.

 

I think he gets fired in the middle of next season if the Sox are serious contenders.

[moonslav59]

Bloom may have done a decent job at building the farm, and I don't disapprove of him at the same level as most, but if he doesn't grow the balls to fix the rotation this offseason he's just not the right guy for the job to take this team to the next level.

 

I think he gets fired in the middle of next season if the Sox are serious contenders.

 

Sounds about right.

 

It will take an organizational commitment to jack up the rotation in major ways (note the plural.)

[Hugh2]

Sounds about right.

 

It will take an organizational commitment to jack up the rotation in major ways (note the plural.)

 

They almost have too.

 

They have money that will be spent and the position player free agent class is historically bad. Yet there's plenty of pitching and the Red Sox need pitching, I will literally be dumbfounded if they do not buy pitching this offseason.

[Elktonnick]

And sometimes yours are proof of a small number simply flinging poop;)

That's all you ever post.

[Elktonnick]

Blah, blah, blah...

I think that accurately describes your last 17000 posts over the past 7 years.

[moonslav59]

They almost have too.

 

They have money that will be spent and the position player free agent class is historically bad. Yet there's plenty of pitching and the Red Sox need pitching, I will literally be dumbfounded if they do not buy pitching this offseason.

 

I would rather end up being angry at Bloom for not replacing JT and Duvall, or for thinking more play from Story, Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Reyes & urias can take up the slack than to be angry again for under appreciating the needs at SP.

 

I'm thinking 90% of all resources (money and or prospects traded) should go to the rotation. I would not be upset at 100%.

[moonslav59]

That's all you ever post.

 

Funny how you follow up your reply to the finger pointing post with a finger pointing post.

 

Classic.

[Dipre]

I think that accurately describes your last 17000 posts over the past 7 years.

 

Bro, seriously, we can all be irritable and argumentative here, but why are you such an *******? You can make your points, even sarcastically, without getting into it with half the board. You even get into arguments with people who agree with you.

[Dipre]

It's practically impossible to build a sustainable contender without either lots of luck, lots of money, or lots of tanking, even if you have top-tier talent on your Baseball Operations offices, and full FO approval. It's even harder with one of those factors out of your control (luck), one of those factors being mitigated by the ruleset MLB currently employs (money), and the third one being an impossibility with a fanbase that has zero chill. Bloom (or anyone in his position) has a very unenviable job, even if he is well compensated.

[moonslav59]

It's practically impossible to build a sustainable contender without either lots of luck, lots of money, or lots of tanking, even if you have top-tier talent on your Baseball Operations offices, and full FO approval. It's even harder with one of those factors out of your control (luck), one of those factors being mitigated by the ruleset MLB currently employs (money), and the third one being an impossibility with a fanbase that has zero chill. Bloom (or anyone in his position) has a very unenviable job, even if he is well compensated.

 

It's almost impossible to imagine a sustainable winning team without having a strong farm for most years.

[Dipre]

It's almost impossible to imagine a sustainable winning team without having a strong farm for most years.

 

Those points apply to both drafting, acquiring international talent, and the free agent market.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's practically impossible to build a sustainable contender without either lots of luck, lots of money, or lots of tanking, even if you have top-tier talent on your Baseball Operations offices, and full FO approval. It's even harder with one of those factors out of your control (luck), one of those factors being mitigated by the ruleset MLB currently employs (money), and the third one being an impossibility with a fanbase that has zero chill. Bloom (or anyone in his position) has a very unenviable job, even if he is well compensated.

 

Great first line. You're also right that lots of tanking is intolerable to this fanbase -- however, those qualities are what makes forums like these even exist. Is it possible a franchise that gets away with lots of tanking doesn't generate quite as much interest, as far as generations of diehard baseball fans (many of whom post daily 12 months a year about their favorite team, regardless if it's good or bad)?

[Dipre]

Great first line. You're also right that lots of tanking is intolerable to this fanbase -- however, those qualities are what makes forums like these even exist. Is it possible a franchise that gets away with lots of tanking doesn't generate quite as much interest, as far as generations of diehard baseball fans (many of whom post daily 12 months a year about their favorite team, regardless if it's good or bad)?

 

Look at Houston

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Look at Houston

 

Best AL franchise the past decade, no doubt, but I'm not familiar with the economics of the fanbase. Do Astros' games cost as much for tickets, parking and concessions as Red Sox games... and can the average working fan afford to bring his family? A better question may also be: if so, did the fans attend games and support the club when it tanked, especially in a state that eats, drinks and sleeps football (even in the spring and summer)?

[Dipre]

Best AL franchise the past decade, no doubt, but I'm not familiar with the economics of the fanbase. Do Astros' games cost as much for tickets, parking and concessions as Red Sox games... and can the average working fan afford to bring his family? A better question may also be: if so, did the fans attend games and support the club when it tanked, especially in a state that eats, drinks and sleeps football (even in the spring and summer)?

 

Of course the fans didn't support the Astros then as much as they do now that they're winning. But that's all fanbases. No matter how rabid they are, fanbases are comprised mostly of casual fans who turn off a sub-optimal product.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Of course the fans didn't support the Astros then as much as they do now that they're winning. But that's all fanbases. No matter how rabid they are, fanbases are comprised mostly of casual fans who turn off a sub-optimal product.

 

Except in Neil Diamond's museum, where the announced attendance is 30K+ per night...