Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Money could have been better spent on JBJ, Story Land, and Paxton just to name a few. Bloom has had three years to work on all the expiring contracts, and to get Raffy signed, and has done nothing in that area. To not Blame Bloom for the current state of the team, and blame others is closing your eyes, and looking the other way.

 

I don’t think Bloom is blame-free, but I also acknowledge that he had limitations.

 

Even the Bradley trade -which I liked - wasn’t as expensive as you think since the other option (keeping Renfroe) still required him to get paid.

 

Renfroe made $7.6mill this year. Bradley made $9.5mill. Having that extra $1.9mill to grab another RP just means you get another Diekman …

[Old Red]

I don’t think Bloom is blame-free, but I also acknowledge that he had limitations.

 

Even the Bradley trade -which I liked - wasn’t as expensive as you think since the other option (keeping Renfroe) still required him to get paid.

 

Renfroe made $7.6mill this year. Bradley made $9.5mill. Having that extra $1.9mill to grab another RP just means you get another Diekman …

Yes, but they are still paying Bradley, and he’s not on the team. The team could have still gone out, and spent more than $1.9M on anything if they wanted to no matter who was on the team.

[Bellhorn04]

Even the Bradley trade -which I liked - wasn’t as expensive as you think since the other option (keeping Renfroe) still required him to get paid.

 

Renfroe made $7.6mill this year. Bradley made $9.5mill. Having that extra $1.9mill to grab another RP just means you get another Diekman …

 

Correction, Bradley is a 12 million hit for tax purposes and an actual outlay of 17.5 million - 9.5 + 8 buyout.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Bloom is blame-free, but I also acknowledge that he had limitations.

 

Even the Bradley trade -which I liked - wasn’t as expensive as you think since the other option (keeping Renfroe) still required him to get paid.

 

Renfroe made $7.6mill this year. Bradley made $9.5mill. Having that extra $1.9mill to grab another RP just means you get another Diekman …

 

The lux tax hit was more, and the idea would have been to not get another RP'er with the savings but to get a better one than Diekman. Add Diekman's money to the JBJ savings and maybe we get a better RP'er- maybe by far.

 

Maybe not.

[Old Red]

Correction, Bradley is a 12 million hit for tax purposes and an actual outlay of 17.5 million - 9.5 + 8 buyout.

 

Some on here was complaining that Renfroe would have been to expensive to keep this year, so then Bloom went out, and got someone more expensive, and for more years.

[Bellhorn04]

Cot's Contracts sucks now, BTW. They don't even show Bradley on the Sox payroll costs any more, just moved him to the Jays. They must have had some layoffs.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you don’t thing the Bargain Bin shopping was related to having less to spend?

 

For all we know or don't know, the bin-diving may just be Bloom's main asset as an officer, and the reason a successful businessman like Henry hired him.

 

When Bloom discusses player contracts and says it has to work for the plan going forward, he never says whether that's his plan or ownership's. And we'll never know if it's the latter, because if he blamed it on his boss, he wouldn't have one for very much longer...

[mvp 78]

Cot's Contracts sucks now, BTW. They don't even show Bradley on the Sox payroll costs any more, just moved him to the Jays. They must have had some layoffs.

 

Web 3.0

[notin]

For all we know or don't know, the bin-diving may just be Bloom's main asset as an officer, and the reason a successful businessman like Henry hired him.

 

When Bloom discusses player contracts and says it has to work for the plan going forward, he never says whether that's his plan or ownership's. And we'll never know if it's the latter, because if he blamed it on his boss, he wouldn't have one for very much longer...

 

We don’t know about Bloom yet as the spending has never been fully Carte Blanche. But it is certainly in the toolbox of Friedman, whose been making a habit of collecting utility infielders from other teams and watching them turn into All Stars (Turner, Muncy, Taylor, for example).

 

Ironically you don’t see the Rays do this nearly as much, even when they had Friedman and Bloom…

[moonslav59]

We don’t know about Bloom yet as the spending has never been fully Carte Blanche. But it is certainly in the toolbox of Friedman, whose been making a habit of collecting utility infielders from other teams and watching them turn into All Stars (Turner, Muncy, Taylor, for example).

 

Ironically you don’t see the Rays do this nearly as much, even when they had Friedman and Bloom…

 

Until the Story signing, Bloom was forced to make massive cuts after 2019 and was severely limited in spending after 2020. It looked like a pretty tight limit after 2021, until suddenly, almost out of nowhere, we signed Story in late March. I wonder, if Bloom was not aware he had that much money to spend, until March. (Hard to know.)

 

To me, there are 3 major factors that have greatly influenced Bloom's time with the Sox, not to mention the lost COVID season:

 

1) The tight budget until March '22.

He was forced to cut over $60M from the 2019 carry-over budget. (Betts & Price Trade, no Porcello, Pearce, Holt and others)

He was given about $40M to spend in short term contract for the 2021 season but also had about 8-15 slots to fill on the 40.

It looked like his hands were tied, this past winter, until the Story signing.

Having to pay Pedey, Price and others to not play at all, plus Sale & Nate spending time on the IL and ERod missing all of 2020.

 

2) The Farm he inherited. Although many of DD acquired farm hands have risen higher in the rankings than many of us expected, let's look at the actual farm hands that Bloom inherited that have made it to the bigs, and then compare them to what DD, Ben & Theo inherited (do that on your own.)

PAs Player OPS

881 Dalbec .757

622 Chavis .704

331 Duran .614

157 S Travis .656

 

IP Pitcher ERA

146 Houck 3.02

85.1 DHern 5.06

56.1 Velazquez 5.43

40.1 Johnson 6.02

23.1 Lakins 3.86

20.1 Shawaryn 9.74

 

3) The Veteran Players in decline- some due to age

I'm not going to get into great detail, but just about every returning vet from the 2021 team declined in production, except Devers & Vaz. Houck stayed about the same. One can argue Bloom should have had the foresight to expect this and have traded many of the vets before the season started, but is that really something to realistically expect?

 

Yes, Bloom made mistakes and swung and missed on some signings, too. He deserves some of the blame for 2022, for sure. This season sucked, and just about everyone deserves some of the blame. I do think the magical 2021 season might have r4aised expectations a bit too high, but in now way should we have been this bad.

 

I'm optimistic about our future, because the farm and budget look to be in much better shape, but it will all come down to who we add, this winter. It's Bloom's flashpoint, and his legacy rides on his choices.

[Old Red]

Until the Story signing, Bloom was forced to make massive cuts after 2019 and was severely limited in spending after 2020. It looked like a pretty tight limit after 2021, until suddenly, almost out of nowhere, we signed Story in late March. I wonder, if Bloom was not aware he had that much money to spend, until March. (Hard to know.)

 

To me, there are 3 major factors that have greatly influenced Bloom's time with the Sox, not to mention the lost COVID season:

 

1) The tight budget until March '22.

He was forced to cut over $60M from the 2019 carry-over budget. (Betts & Price Trade, no Porcello, Pearce, Holt and others)

He was given about $40M to spend in short term contract for the 2021 season but also had about 8-15 slots to fill on the 40.

It looked like his hands were tied, this past winter, until the Story signing.

Having to pay Pedey, Price and others to not play at all, plus Sale & Nate spending time on the IL and ERod missing all of 2020.

 

2) The Farm he inherited. Although many of DD acquired farm hands have risen higher in the rankings than many of us expected, let's look at the actual farm hands that Bloom inherited that have made it to the bigs, and then compare them to what DD, Ben & Theo inherited (do that on your own.)

PAs Player OPS

881 Dalbec .757

622 Chavis .704

331 Duran .614

157 S Travis .656

 

IP Pitcher ERA

146 Houck 3.02

85.1 DHern 5.06

56.1 Velazquez 5.43

40.1 Johnson 6.02

23.1 Lakins 3.86

20.1 Shawaryn 9.74

 

3) The Veteran Players in decline- some due to age

I'm not going to get into great detail, but just about every returning vet from the 2021 team declined in production, except Devers & Vaz. Houck stayed about the same. One can argue Bloom should have had the foresight to expect this and have traded many of the vets before the season started, but is that really something to realistically expect?

 

Yes, Bloom made mistakes and swung and missed on some signings, too. He deserves some of the blame for 2022, for sure. This season sucked, and just about everyone deserves some of the blame. I do think the magical 2021 season might have r4aised expectations a bit too high, but in now way should we have been this bad.

 

I'm optimistic about our future, because the farm and budget look to be in much better shape, but it will all come down to who we add, this winter. It's Bloom's flashpoint, and his legacy rides on his choices.

 

You keep saying the same things over, and over, and over, and if you haven’t convinced anyone yet you are not going to. NO One has said that Bloom should have seen the decline in all the vets this year. NO One, but in hindsight trading JD coming off a 99 RBI season, which I was against might have been the best thing. In my opinion to much hope, and speculation is being put on the better farm rankings to make the team better. If Casas for example doesn’t come close to all the great speculations, and expectations then when, and where is the next Mookie, Raffy, or Bogey coming from?

[cp176]

You keep saying the same things over, and over, and over, and if you haven’t convinced anyone yet you are not going to. NO One has said that Bloom should have seen the decline in all the vets this year. NO One, but in hindsight trading JD coming off a 99 RBI season, which I was against might have been the best thing. In my opinion to much hope, and speculation is being put on the better farm rankings to make the team better. If Casas for example doesn’t come close to all the great speculations, and expectations then when, and where is the next Mookie, Raffy, or Bogey coming from?

 

If we do have the next Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy, I don't think that they are currently playing at the AA or AAA level. What I saw in Portland were better players in general but no one looked like an up and coming superstar.

[Old Red]

If we do have the next Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy, I don't think that they are currently playing at the AA or AAA level. What I saw in Portland were better players in general but no one looked like an up and coming superstar.

 

That’s what I mean that to much hope is being placed on the Farm system, because they have better rankings.

[moonslav59]

If we do have the next Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy, I don't think that they are currently playing at the AA or AAA level. What I saw in Portland were better players in general but no one looked like an up and coming superstar.

 

So, if large and long contracts are out of the question, and I mean larger than Story's deal, and farm building should not be one of the highest priorities, then how do we get the next Betts, Bogey or Devers?

 

The way the draft and IFA systems are set up, rich teams can no longer grab "unsignable" players at lower picks and then sign them. Gone are the Moncada bonuses.

 

IMO, you have to try and build up the farm, and while none of the prospects Bloom traded for look like they can or will be the next mega star, you have to do the best you can.

 

Bloom's Rule 5 pick-up of Whitlock seems to outshine any past rising prospect in a long time. Houck is the best we've seen in a long time- maybe since Devers.

 

Mayer & Bleis are too far away to know anything for sure, but they might rise quickly enough to be in the 2024-2015 discussion. I like Rafaela a lot, and maybe Bello can match or surpass Houck, someday, but it is hard to see a Raffy in our current system.

 

I'm not convinced Casas is all he's hyped up to be, but just being a plus 1Bman would be a big boost in 2023.

[notin]

If we do have the next Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy, I don't think that they are currently playing at the AA or AAA level. What I saw in Portland were better players in general but no one looked like an up and coming superstar.

 

The closest in Portland might be Cedanne Rafaela with his .851 OPS at age 21. Or, at age 26 if you go by MADSTORK evaluations…

[moonslav59]

The closest in Portland might be Cedanne Rafaela with his .851 OPS at age 21. Or, at age 26 if you go by MADSTORK evaluations…

 

Maybe Mata and Kavadas are next tier.

[Bobe2]

A two headed beast, Cora talks about winning series while Bloom tanks it, two more players DFA, Davis and Sawamura both have struggled lately but did a decent job until recently. Replaced by Ort 9.00 ERA and a pitcher that’s never been in the show, so how can Cora and the Sox hope to win with Bloom trading away pitchers, and replacing them with AAA players that have done worse than the players DFA’d in Sawamura’s case it was more because of contract incentives he didn’t want to pay. DFA a player to get out of contract incentives real classy guy.

[notin]

A two headed beast, Cora talks about winning series while Bloom tanks it, two more players DFA, Davis and Sawamura both have struggled lately but did a decent job until recently. Replaced by Ort 9.00 ERA and a pitcher that’s never been in the show, so how can Cora and the Sox hope to win with Bloom trading away pitchers, and replacing them with AAA players that have done worse than the players DFA’d in Sawamura’s case it was more because of contract incentives he didn’t want to pay. DFA a player to get out of contract incentives real classy guy.

 

Sportrac had no incentives on Sawamura’s 2022 contract and $400k on his 2021 deal.

 

He did have a team option for 2023 for $3mill with a $600k buyout. By DFAing and presumably releasing Sawamura, the Sox still have to pay his buyout. In short, they save no money unless someone picks him up, and even then it’s just a pro-rated portion of the league minimum.

 

They released both because both have been awful.

 

Now if another team claims Sawamura, the new team assumes all his money…

Edited August 29, 2022 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

A two headed beast, Cora talks about winning series while Bloom tanks it, two more players DFA, Davis and Sawamura both have struggled lately but did a decent job until recently. Replaced by Ort 9.00 ERA and a pitcher that’s never been in the show, so how can Cora and the Sox hope to win with Bloom trading away pitchers, and replacing them with AAA players that have done worse than the players DFA’d in Sawamura’s case it was more because of contract incentives he didn’t want to pay. DFA a player to get out of contract incentives real classy guy.

 

The contract incentives all relate to options for next year. When you look into it it only made sense.

[Bobe2]

The contract incentives all relate to options for next year. When you look into it it only made sense.

 

Your probably right on that but it’s not the time if they are honestly trying to compete the rest of the year to be dumping pitchers Sawamura .325 ERA isn’t bad,

[moonslav59]

Your probably right on that but it’s not the time if they are honestly trying to compete the rest of the year to be dumping pitchers Sawamura .325 ERA isn’t bad,

 

ERA for pitchers is not a good stat, as they often come in with just 1 or 2 outs. Imagine a SP'er's ERA, mif he only had to get 1-2 outs in half his innings pitched.

 

His 1.42 WHIP might be more reflective of how bad he was.

 

But, his .664 OPS Against is pretty good, so....

[cp176]

So, if large and long contracts are out of the question, and I mean larger than Story's deal, and farm building should not be one of the highest priorities, then how do we get the next Betts, Bogey or Devers?

 

The way the draft and IFA systems are set up, rich teams can no longer grab "unsignable" players at lower picks and then sign them. Gone are the Moncada bonuses.

 

IMO, you have to try and build up the farm, and while none of the prospects Bloom traded for look like they can or will be the next mega star, you have to do the best you can.

 

Bloom's Rule 5 pick-up of Whitlock seems to outshine any past rising prospect in a long time. Houck is the best we've seen in a long time- maybe since Devers.

 

Mayer & Bleis are too far away to know anything for sure, but they might rise quickly enough to be in the 2024-2015 discussion. I like Rafaela a lot, and maybe Bello can match or surpass Houck, someday, but it is hard to see a Raffy in our current system.

 

I'm not convinced Casas is all he's hyped up to be, but just being a plus 1Bman would be a big boost in 2023.

 

Why should building the farm not be one of anyone's highest priorities? It has to be if you're planning to win titles. It is how you use what you have that counts. To date, although I do like many of the athletes now competing in our system, I don't think that Bloom has done anything that many other GM's couldn't have done. Part of his reputation as a farm builder might be because in Tampa that is about all he could do. I might feel differently about him if I had the impression that he was a great communicator but I don't see signs of that. Do me a favor though - don't bring up any past GM's in an effort to compare them with Bloom. He is his own man with his own game and his own way of doing things. Once again, I think that there are quite a few young players that will at least get a look up with the big club, I just don't see any world beaters down there just yet.

[mvp 78]

I don’t know why you gotta be so mean to Niko.

[moonslav59]

Why should building the farm not be one of anyone's highest priorities? It has to be if you're planning to win titles. It is how you use what you have that counts. To date, although I do like many of the athletes now competing in our system, I don't think that Bloom has done anything that many other GM's couldn't have done. Part of his reputation as a farm builder might be because in Tampa that is about all he could do. I might feel differently about him if I had the impression that he was a great communicator but I don't see signs of that. Do me a favor though - don't bring up any past GM's in an effort to compare them with Bloom. He is his own man with his own game and his own way of doing things. Once again, I think that there are quite a few young players that will at least get a look up with the big club, I just don't see any world beaters down there just yet.

 

Oh, I thought the majority of Sox Nation did not care about the farm, except to trade them for stars. (Not you)

[harmony]

Boston Globe beat reporter Alex Speier asks: What does the Julio Rodriguez extension mean for the future of the Red Sox?

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/08/26/sports/red-sox-start-considering-long-term-deals-with-younger-players/

 

... noting that the Red Sox failed to lock up Mookie Betts and Rafael Devers early in their careers.

 

As as side note under the new CBA, because Rodriguez made the Opening Day roster the Mariners will receive an additional draft pick if Rodriguez finishes in the top three in Rookie of the Year voting.

[jad]

Not exactly sure how Kennedy can be serious about the 'strong belief in the direction of this franchise from our ownership group.'

???

What 'direction'?

Have they not watched the games this season?

[Old Red]

Not exactly sure how Kennedy can be serious about the 'strong belief in the direction of this franchise from our ownership group.'

???

What 'direction'?

Have they not watched the games this season?

Or looked at the standings?

[jad]

Or looked at the standings?

 

If he had prefaced that with "Of course we are disappointed in how the year has gone, but looking ahead ..." there might be a reason (not a valid one I think) to believe that he was actually being truthful.

[moonslav59]

If he had prefaced that with "Of course we are disappointed in how the year has gone, but looking ahead ..." there might be a reason (not a valid one I think) to believe that he was actually being truthful.

 

It's about the farm and a bunch of dead money coming off the books.

 

“Next year will be the 22nd season of the John Henry-Tom Werner-Mike Gordon Fenway Sports Group stewardship of this franchise,” Kennedy told Rosenthal of the ownership group. “Since we’ve been here, each and every year we have a goal of playing baseball in October. I do not see that changing. I see us continuing to invest across the entire organization, at the major-league level, throughout our baseball operations. This group is hungry for another World Series championship. … I know we’re in a tough spot right now. But we have a lot of flexibility going into this offseason. I’m really excited to see what we’re going to do with that flexibility and the resources we have.“

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

Wow! How low can this team go?

 

5 games under 500

 

7 games back in the L column for last place

 

9 games back in the L column for last wild card spot