Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Does anyone know of a baseball forum with meaningful discussion free of personal attacks?

 

Yes, it's called "The Harmony Blog."

 

 

Thanks for being one of the few posters here, myself included, that doesn't get bitter or snappy.

 

[moonslav59]

In any large group , smaller sub groups will develop. Usually among like minded folks who tend to agree on most things. Sometimes they will feud with other sub groups who have a different viewpoint. TalkSox is no different in that regard. The problem is that people take things far too seriously. Then things can get nasty and personal. Everyone really needs to lighten up. This is not all that important.

 

Well said.

[Maxbialystock]

We agree again Max. Well almost.You say Bloom is clueless, and I say he’s in over his head, so that’s close enough. Didn’t you say before that Bloom was borderline ignorant? Wow!

 

Fortunately, my words are just above yours, so everyone knows you are intentionally misquoting me.

[dgalehouse]

Does anyone know of a baseball forum with meaningful discussion free of personal attacks?

 

Harm , There used to be the Mr. Rogers baseball forum , but it may not exist any more. So don't ask for a link. By the way , don't ever ask me for a link . I don't do that.

[notin]

Funny thing, but I also though JDM was a great signing and I don't mind giving DD credit for it. He already had a bunch of good bats thanks to Cherington (and Epstein), but JDM filled the gap created by Ortiz's retirement and, I think, made everyone else in the lineup better in 2018. He does have a problem with sliders from righty pitchers, but he has been valuable until this year.

 

The JDM signing was pretty representative of even a successful free agent contract. He absolutely produced when the team needed him to, and was a big part of the overall success in 2018.

 

But even long term deals that are successful tend to carry a few years at the end with inevitable decline. Decline in performance, not salary. And when this happens, the effect can be two fold. The team 1) gets a lot less from the player and 2) the team can’t afford to replace him, especially if there are other needs.

 

Too many deals like this can be a huge detriment. With JDM, Sale, Price, and Eovaldi, the Sox have about 1/3 of their payroll tied up in 4 players either out or a lesser version of themselves when they signed. And no room in the budget to just go out and pay the price for replacements.

 

There are some who think Bogaerts belongs on this list. I do not…

[Maxbialystock]

The JDM signing was pretty representative of even a successful free agent contract. He absolutely produced when the team needed him to, and was a big part of the overall success in 2018.

 

But even long term deals that are successful tend to carry a few years at the end with inevitable decline. Decline in performance, not salary. And when this happens, the effect can be two fold. The team 1) gets a lot less from the player and 2) the team can’t afford to replace him, especially if there are other needs.

 

Too many deals like this can be a huge detriment. With JDM, Sale, Price, and Eovaldi, the Sox have about 1/3 of their payroll tied up in 4 players either out or a lesser version of themselves when they signed. And no room in the budget to just go out and pay the price for replacements.

 

There are some who think Bogaerts belongs on this list. I do not…

 

Agree, agree, agree. First, I too don't think Bogey's day is done. Second, I absolutely, categorically think long term contracts inevitably pay players salaries way above their performance level. Third, I agree JDM was a great acquisition, but this year he's overpaid. That said, he did not get a long term contract.

[notin]

Agree, agree, agree. First, I too don't think Bogey's day is done. Second, I absolutely, categorically think long term contracts inevitably pay players salaries way above their performance level. Third, I agree JDM was a great acquisition, but this year he's overpaid. That said, he did not get a long term contract.

 

True. JD only got 5 years, and only 3 of them proved productive. Imagine if he had received the 7 Boras wanted for him…

[moonslav59]

I don't think anyone considers the JD signing a bad thing. I doubt anyone even thinks it was just okay or decent. His 2018 season was worth way more than he was paid, and he was one of the few who did his part in the 2019 debacle of a season. His 2021 season was a plus, too.

 

H signed with the Sox coming off a 4 year run at .936, and his approach and work habits were something helpful as an example to other players, especially the younger ones. His .984 OPS from 2016-2017 got him the contract he deserved and ended up earning.

 

The .680 OPS in 2020 should not really be held against him, as the whole cluster you-know-what season should be wiped from our memories- for our own good.

 

He started this season off very well, despite the lower HR totals, He was still over a 1.000 OPS on May 30th! (His 40th game of the season seems like so very long ago.)

 

Since May 30th, his OPS has been .628 with only 4 HRs and 19 2Bs in 292 PAs.

It's at .544 his last 189 PAs with just 1 HR and 12 2Bs.

.587 in his last 11 games (47 PAs) with 0 HRs and 2 2Bs.

 

He still has time to turn it around, but he really seems to have slowed down. Perhaps he should bat 6th or 7th, for a while, anyway, but it's not like anyone else is earning the 3-4-5 slot.

 

[Maxbialystock]

We agree again Max. Well almost.You say Bloom is clueless, and I say he’s in over his head, so that’s close enough. Didn’t you say before that Bloom was borderline ignorant? Wow!

 

Actually, I probably agree with the notion that Bloom could be in "over his head," but with some caveats as follows--

 

1. As others have pointed out, this is first time as the honcho. He was great at the Rays, but never fully in charge.

 

2. The Rays system of finding and developing players is vastly different from the Sox system. If nothing else, the Sox can afford to spend at least twice as much on salaries as the Rays. They rarely develop good pitchers and prefer to buy 'em by the gross. The Rays find and develop good pitchers every freaking year.

 

3. DD inherited a ton of talent drafted/developed by Cherington and Epstein--and left a train wreck. Where, for example are all the great prospects he drafted 6 years ago, 5 years ago, 4 years ago, and 3 years ago? I don't see any. But DD inherited Mookie, Bogey, Raffy, Beni, JBJ (when he was good), Holt, Leon, Vazquez, Porcello, ERod, Kelly, Barnes, et al. So all DD had to do was go out and buy Price, Sale, Kimbrel, and JDM--all of whom were paid handsomely--to get that 2018 WS team.

 

4. By train wreck I don't just mean no player development. I also mean the Sox are still paying major bucks--$63M for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--this year even though they aren't doing jack for the Sox. I also mean that, partly because of those salaries, keeping three of the best--Mookie, Bogey, and Devers--became impossible in Mookie's case and problematical in the cases of Bogey and Devers.

 

5. At Tampa there wasn't a lot of pressure because their fanbase was and is virtually nonexistent. Sox fans ain't so patient. Actually, if talksox and this thread are any indication, Sox fans have zippo patience. It's like working for the Queen of Hearts, whose usual remark is, "off with the heads." And I'm pretty sure that chant started in Bloom's first season, 2020, which to me was a nonseason because of the pandemic. Did it abate during or after the very successful 2021 season? Not so's you'd notice. And this year so far it's now a 235 page thread.

[moonslav59]

Literally writing the book on the Ray's system of doing things does not mean Bloom will end up being a success as the Sox GM, but my guess is he knows the ins and outs of a winning system. I don't think it's going out on a limb to think knowledge is usually a good thing.

 

Click and Friedman have been unqualified successes with their new teams, but they have had time and mostly less restricted budgets over their time as GMs.

 

It takes time to build a farm and then more time before the success is realized. I'm not saying Bloom has succeeded in building up the farm to some great level, because we won't know for a few more years, but on paper, he seems to have done a fine job in that area.

 

So far, he has done very well with under-the-radar additions, like Whitlock, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Arroyo, Wacha and others.

 

The area Bloom has seemed to be lacking is with some of his trades and FA signings. It's easy to explain away the results based on having very limited winter spending budgets and too many slots to fill, but the Story signing, in March, broke open the bank. To me, the judgment day began when he signed Story and the rest of his legacy will largely depend on what moves he makes, this winter. He has some big shoes to fill, but he laos has enough dead money coming off the books to create an expectation of him having enough to build a better team than we have had the last 2-4 years.

 

He may very well prove to be "over his head" or "clueless" or whatever people want to call it. Those terms all seems pretty similar, to me. I'm optimistic he will be up to the task. I don't see the Story signing as completed, yet, and I'm encouraged by the signings like Wacha, Strahm and last year's Kike & Renfroe, but he has to have more signings like those and less like Richards and Diekman.

 

We'll see if he's done with making the farm the highest priority, and most of his trades have involved adding prospects, so it's hard to judge them on face value, since the value is largely speculative and potential. We can say with near certainty the JBJ trade was a bust, but was that outweighed by the Pivetta deal? If German amounts to anything, we may view the Ottavino deal as brilliant. If Wink or some far away prospect makes good, maybe we view the B eni trade much differently. Maybe a prospects acquired at this deadline ends up shining. It may end up being under the next GM, but the fact is, the jury is still out and maybe way out on final judgments on most of his trades.

 

Maybe, we'll look back and shake our heads in disgust, but I'm still optimistic we are on the right path.

 

[MADSTORK]

BAZINGA! It’s hilarious you think you are only carrying his jock. You are his jock.

 

Lmao

Get ‘em Red, moon is legend in his own mind! But I do appreciate his effort

[MADSTORK]

There's no question that a lot of the support for Bloom comes from the belief that the Rays Way Works.

 

I'm pretty sure that's why Henry hired him, too.

 

 

LMAO

You get better with age Horn you really do!

 

?

 

How many rings do the Rays have?

[moonslav59]

LMAO

You get better with age Horn you really do!

 

?

 

How many rings do the Rays have?

 

How many rings do ex-Rays GMs have?

[Old Red]

Standings update.

 

3 games under 500

 

6 games back in the L column for last place

 

8 games back in the L column for the last Wild Card spot

 

Time is running out!

[Bellhorn04]

LMAO

You get better with age Horn you really do!

 

?

 

How many rings do the Rays have?

 

The point is the Rays get a lot out of a low payroll. If you add money, like with Friedman in LA, then you can really dominate.

 

You are as stupid as it gets.

[Old Red]

The point is the Rays get a lot out of a low payroll. If you add money, like with Friedman in LA, then you can really dominate.

 

You are as stupid as it gets.

 

Can the Sox get Friedman?

[Bellhorn04]

Can the Sox get Friedman?

 

Nope. You can pry execs loose from the Rays with more money, but not from the Dodgers.

[Old Red]

Nope. You can pry execs loose from the Rays with more money, but not from the Dodgers.

 

Just asking.

[Maxbialystock]

Actually, I probably agree with the notion that Bloom could be in "over his head," but with some caveats as follows--

 

1. As others have pointed out, this is first time as the honcho. He was great at the Rays, but never fully in charge.

 

2. The Rays system of finding and developing players is vastly different from the Sox system. If nothing else, the Sox can afford to spend at least twice as much on salaries as the Rays. They rarely develop good pitchers and prefer to buy 'em by the gross. The Rays find and develop good pitchers every freaking year.

 

3. DD inherited a ton of talent drafted/developed by Cherington and Epstein--and left a train wreck. Where, for example are all the great prospects he drafted 6 years ago, 5 years ago, 4 years ago, and 3 years ago? I don't see any. But DD inherited Mookie, Bogey, Raffy, Beni, JBJ (when he was good), Holt, Leon, Vazquez, Porcello, ERod, Kelly, Barnes, et al. So all DD had to do was go out and buy Price, Sale, Kimbrel, and JDM--all of whom were paid handsomely--to get that 2018 WS team.

 

4. By train wreck I don't just mean no player development. I also mean the Sox are still paying major bucks--$63M for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--this year even though they aren't doing jack for the Sox. I also mean that, partly because of those salaries, keeping three of the best--Mookie, Bogey, and Devers--became impossible in Mookie's case and problematical in the cases of Bogey and Devers.

 

5. At Tampa there wasn't a lot of pressure because their fanbase was and is virtually nonexistent. Sox fans ain't so patient. Actually, if talksox and this thread are any indication, Sox fans have zippo patience. It's like working for the Queen of Hearts, whose usual remark is, "off with the heads." And I'm pretty sure that chant started in Bloom's first season, 2020, which to me was a nonseason because of the pandemic. Did it abate during or after the very successful 2021 season? Not so's you'd notice. And this year so far it's now a 235 page thread.

 

A note on DD. He's now the President of Baseball Operations for the Phillies, and this year they look to get to the postseason for the first time 2011. Apparently it helped to fire Joe Girardi in May when the Phillies were 22-29.

[Bellhorn04]

A note on DD. He's now the President of Baseball Operations for the Phillies, and this year they look to get to the postseason for the first time 2011. Apparently it helped to fire Joe Girardi in May when the Phillies were 22-29.

 

Yes, it certainly looks like that was one of Dave's best moves this year.

[moonslav59]

The point is the Rays get a lot out of a low payroll. If you add money, like with Friedman in LA, then you can really dominate.

 

You are as stupid as it gets.

 

There is also James Click of the Astros, but he's a tough comp, due to inheriting a solid team and farm. Here are the moves he's made...

 

https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Astros-general-manager-James-Cllick-moves-grade-GM-16440979.php

[Old Red]

A note on DD. He's now the President of Baseball Operations for the Phillies, and this year they look to get to the postseason for the first time 2011. Apparently it helped to fire Joe Girardi in May when the Phillies were 22-29.

 

Didn’t DD replace a Bloom type guy as the GM of the Phillys?

[notin]

Nope. You can pry execs loose from the Rays with more money, but not from the Dodgers.

 

Not to mention he inherited a AL West pennant team with a stacked farm and had an enormous budget. Bring him here and you might not see things work out much different…

[notin]

Didn’t DD replace a Bloom type guy as the GM of the Phillys?

 

No.

 

The GM before DD’s hire was Matt Klentak, who was more of a DD type. He signed Bryce Harper to a mega extension and traded the farm for JT Realmuto, for example.

 

Of course, DD didn’t replace him. He replaced Andy MacPhail. And while Klentak is no longer GM (Sam Fuld is), he stepped down voluntarily and still works with the Phillies…

[harmony]

A note on DD. He's now the President of Baseball Operations for the Phillies, and this year they look to get to the postseason for the first time 2011. Apparently it helped to fire Joe Girardi in May when the Phillies were 22-29.

Next Sunday I hope to see the Philadelphia Phillies and three days later the Atlanta Braves, NL East clubs that are among the hottest in MLB.

 

Scouting potential World Series opponents for the Seattle Mariners.

 

Lighten up.

[Old Red]

Pivetta said on his post game interview that he hasn’t shown up against div opponents this year. Nobody else has either.

[jad]

Does anyone know of a baseball forum with meaningful discussion free of personal attacks?

 

Not intending to cause offense, but you, sir, if I remember your posts from a couple of years ago (you've been on 'block' for a while) have an unfortunate habit of taking any disagreement or even garden-variety jocular back-and-forth as a personal attack. They're not. Basically, what people do when they talk sports is to argue and disparage each other. There are a couple of posters here who attack each other in personal, juvenile ways; I don't see many of those exchanges because of the 'block' function. No one seriously attacks anyone, you included; why would they? it's an anonymous board, and the fact is, no one gives a crap about you (or about me or anyone else). But there is no way a fan base is going to be harmonious (if I may use your moniker) when their team is having a season like this.

[dgalehouse]

Dgalehouse: This bullpen is a hot mess. Moonslav: (to galehouse ) The pen might be fine. And the sun may rise in the west next season. Dgalehouse: (to Moon) The pen sucks and as long as I have lived, the sun has risen in the east. Bellhorn: (to Galehouse ) Why are you always attacking Moon? MaxB: I freakin' agree with freakin' Moonslav. Notin: The sun doesn't actually rise. The earth spins on it's axis while orbiting the sun. OldRed: According to my eye test it looks like it rises in the east. Most of Sox Nation agrees. Harmony: According to Marcel , the Mariners will win the pennant before the sun rises in the west. A700: The pen is a pigsty.

[Old Red]

Dgalehouse: This bullpen is a hot mess. Moonslav: (to galehouse ) The pen might be fine. And the sun may rise in the west next season. Dgalehouse: (to Moon) The pen sucks and as long as I have lived, the sun has risen in the east. Bellhorn: (to Galehouse ) Why are you always attacking Moon? MaxB: I freakin' agree with freakin' Moonslav. Notin: The sun doesn't actually rise. The earth spins on it's axis while orbiting the sun. OldRed: According to my eye test it looks like it rises in the east. Most of Sox Nation agrees. Harmony: According to Marcel , the Mariners will win the pennant before the sun rises in the west. A700: The pen is a pigsty.

 

Well done.

[Bellhorn04]

Dgalehouse: This bullpen is a hot mess. Moonslav: (to galehouse ) The pen might be fine. And the sun may rise in the west next season. Dgalehouse: (to Moon) The pen sucks and as long as I have lived, the sun has risen in the east. Bellhorn: (to Galehouse ) Why are you always attacking Moon? MaxB: I freakin' agree with freakin' Moonslav. Notin: The sun doesn't actually rise. The earth spins on it's axis while orbiting the sun. OldRed: According to my eye test it looks like it rises in the east. Most of Sox Nation agrees. Harmony: According to Marcel , the Mariners will win the pennant before the sun rises in the west. A700: The pen is a pigsty.

 

Sounds about right.