Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

McGuire has always had good hands behind the plate, able to jerk back any balls that go awry. His strong hands lead to an impeccable finish as he releases towards the bags. But this year, his grip on the shaft of the bat has led to his best offensive stats that you can come by. You can only hope his progress doesn’t arrest as he’s parking himself in your lineup on a regular basis….

 

In all honesty, McGuire has always been a good defender who’s been predicted to have offensive promise yet minimal power. Maybe he’s ready to deliver on it

 

I'm not sure the Sox care much about offense from the catcher, especially the back up one. Leon, Plawecki and others have show that.

 

Apparently, we went hard after Stallings, last winter, and may have traded Vaz in the spring, had we obtained him over the Marlins. I think his OPS is around .600 or even under with MIA, but he still starts more than any of the many young catchers they have.

 

If this guy can ever get and stay around ,660-.680, I think he'll be our FT catcher. For all the decent catcher hitting Vaz gave us, he did end up with just a .700 OPS- still good for a catcher, but not something that Wows me.

[Old Red]

What strikes me as amusing here is that you spent 5 lines responding to a 2 line post that you called "over analyzing"...

 

We had already gone over this on another thread, and just another example of another opinion not being accepted. I guess all the big word salads other people concoct is not amusing?

[Maxbialystock]

Mookie went off last night. He probably added at least .5 WAR in one game LOL

 

Glad you said that. It gives me an excuse to make a point.

 

Talksoxers know I am hard over on those big contracts for top players, which I continue to believe are gambles that usually do not pay off. I'm a cheapskate.

 

On the other hand, I've often thought Mookie Betts and Willie Mays are a lot alike. When Willie was inducted into the HOF, he said something like, "I have to be honest, I never saw anyone better." I agree with that--he's my fav even though Mike Trout has had an absolutely spectacular career so far.

 

Mookie and Willie are roughly the same size--Mookie 5'9", Willie 5'10", but Mookie 10 lbs heavier at 180 to Willie's 170. Small guys with terrific coordination and arm strength to throw and swings to hit dingers and legs to steal bases. 5 tool guys with a whole lot of cumulative WAR.

 

Willie came up in 1951 at age 20 and played through the 1973 season--and missed most of 1952 and all of 1953 because of service in the Army. His cumulative WAR was 156 for 23 seasons, which is about 7 per. In 1971 at age 40 his WAR was 6.3.

 

And for all of that incredible career and reaching icon status, Willie Mays cumulative freaking salary was $1.8M. That's a big reason why he kept playing--his biggest salaries were at the tail end of his career. The dollar went a lot further then, but let's not kid ourselves. Curt Flood was right to break the reserve clause, and Willie Mays is a prime example why. After he retired, he was more than willing to be a greeter or whatever because he needed the money.

 

So, while I am against the exorbitant salaries I read about today, I do understand that the owners of the past--and most notably the owner of the Chicago Black Sox--believed players should live in penury.

 

I seem to recall that while he was the starting right fielder for the Brooklyn Dodgers--when they were good--Carl Furillo had an offseason job in construction to make ends meet. In 1960 when he was 38, the Dodgers dumped him to avoid paying a pension due a 15 year player, so he sued them and won.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[Old Red]

You back pedal nicely.

 

He’s an excellent CF. If you were actually judging solely by the eye test (as you claim), you would have noticed he’s played 150 out of 194 games in Boston as a CF. So not sure where eye test has so many positions.

 

Overall he has struggled to hit this year, but given his career offense and his extremely good defense at multiple positions, he is a good ball player. No one called him a superstar. No need to try to exaggerate…

 

Wasn’t even talking utility man with the Sox, but career. Best defensive CF they have ever seen in a Red Sox uniform is how he has been described on here. Exaggeration?

[moonslav59]

He definitely sticks to his points. I knew nothing about Kike before last season although I have looked at his numbers before he got here. Like everyone else, I watched the games and liked what I saw although I did agree with moonslav it was regrettable how often Kike was pulled back to the infield when he was clearly--his DWAR last year was +2.1--the best outfielder defender on the team.

 

Plus his overall WAR was 4.9. I doubt that Old Red is aware that Kike's 4.9 was a tad better than Mookie's 4.2 with the Dodgers last year. Or that with Kike the Sox got to the ALCS, just as with Mookie the Dodgers got to the NLCS.

I am of course aware that Mookie overall is way, way better than Kike and has the past WAR's to prove it. This season, for example, Mookie is way ahead with a 5.4 WAR to Kike's 0.2.

 

Unfortunately for the Dodgers, however, it's possible they are shelling out $365M for a player they may never see despite all the hoopla every time he catches a fly, makes a good throw, gets a hit or better still a dinger, etc. In 5.3 seasons (@ $6M/season) with the Sox Mookie's cumulative WAR was 42.3. In parts of 3 seasons with the Dodgers (@ $30M/season for 12 years) it's 13.2.

 

Because Kike happens to be a very good defender at many positions, somehow that has been used against him- like he's not good enough to stick at one slot. It's more like he's too good to be kept at just one slot, as injuries happen to every team.

 

I think he's a hell of a ball player, who usually starts out slowly and gets better when it counts most. His injury, this year, took away from his chance to bring his numbers up, but maybe he never would have, anyway. He has had some sub .700 seasons sprinkled here and there. That's one reason he only got $7M x 2 and not $17M x 4.

 

Nobody has ever said he was a superstar. He is, however, a fantastic defensive CF who play the difficult Fenway CF about as well or as well as anyone who has ever played it. That's a huge plus to the Sox. The guy hit almost .900 over the last 80m games of 2021 and almost single-handedly carried the offense to within 2 games of the WS.

 

It sucks he got hurt. He has never been an injury prone player, but I guess what have you done for me, lately, is all that matters to many Sox fans. That's understandable, at least, but maybe he'll catch on fire, like last year, and bring some fun and excitement into the rest of the season. I love watching this guy play. I wish all our players played like him.

[Bellhorn04]

We had already gone over this on another thread, and just another example of another opinion not being accepted. I guess all the big word salads other people concoct is not amusing?

 

We all have issues, Red. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

[moonslav59]

We all have issues, Red. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

 

The guy who keeps claiming we all need to "agree to disagree" and repeats his points as much or more than any of us really believes that continuing the argument means not "accepting" another's position, or rather not proclaiming he is right.

 

Has Red accepted my position that Kike had the best CF defensive season I have witnessed as a Sox fan? Hardly. I don't expect or even want him to agree. Was that statement by me a bit hyperbolic? I don't think so. Afterall, it's my "eye test."

 

I also went on to say that plenty of ex-Sox CF'ers have had great defensive seasons and careers, and they have. I also said I have no issue with anyone saying someone else had a better season. Isn't that the same as "agreeing to disagree" and a firm example of accepting another's position?

 

Yet, I'm made out to be the rigid one, unaccepting of anyone else's position. Yes, I'm guilty of "lastwordism." It's a fault I've tried to overcome, but here I am, again, doing just that.

[Old Red]

Because Kike happens to be a very good defender at many positions, somehow that has been used against him- like he's not good enough to stick at one slot. It's more like he's too good to be kept at just one slot, as injuries happen to every team.

 

I think he's a hell of a ball player, who usually starts out slowly and gets better when it counts most. His injury, this year, took away from his chance to bring his numbers up, but maybe he never would have, anyway. He has had some sub .700 seasons sprinkled here and there. That's one reason he only got $7M x 2 and not $17M x 4.

 

Nobody has ever said he was a superstar. He is, however, a fantastic defensive CF who play the difficult Fenway CF about as well or as well as anyone who has ever played it. That's a huge plus to the Sox. The guy hit almost .900 over the last 80m games of 2021 and almost single-handedly carried the offense to within 2 games of the WS.

 

It sucks he got hurt. He has never been an injury prone player, but I guess what have you done for me, lately, is all that matters to many Sox fans. That's understandable, at least, but maybe he'll catch on fire, like last year, and bring some fun and excitement into the rest of the season. I love watching this guy play. I wish all our players played like him.

 

Coming out of the bushes again for more word salad. It’s amazing you come out with this phony baloney I guess what have you done for me lately concerning your Boy Toy Kike, but you don’t apply it to JD, or Bogey who have both done more in the past than Kike could ever dream about for the Red Sox whom you have been dissing. Flip flop, and more MoonSlop.

[Old Red]

The guy who keeps claiming we all need to "agree to disagree" and repeats his points as much or more than any of us really believes that continuing the argument means not "accepting" another's position, or rather not proclaiming he is right.

 

Has Red accepted my position that Kike had the best CF defensive season I have witnessed as a Sox fan? Hardly. I don't expect or even want him to agree. Was that statement by me a bit hyperbolic? I don't think so. Afterall, it's my "eye test."

 

I also went on to say that plenty of ex-Sox CF'ers have had great defensive seasons and careers, and they have. I also said I have no issue with anyone saying someone else had a better season. Isn't that the same as "agreeing to disagree" and a firm example of accepting another's position?

 

Yet, I'm made out to be the rigid one, unaccepting of anyone else's position. Yes, I'm guilty of "lastwordism." It's a fault I've tried to overcome, but here I am, again, doing just that.

Bushwhacking at its best.

[Bellhorn04]

Coming out of the bushes again for more word salad. It’s amazing you come out with this phony baloney I guess what have you done for me lately concerning your Boy Toy Kike, but you don’t apply it to JD, or Bogey who have both done more in the past than Kike could ever dream about for the Red Sox whom you have been dissing. Flip flop, and more MoonSlop.

 

Wow, you really squeezed a lot of insults into one post.

[notin]

Wow, you really squeezed a lot of insults into one post.

 

Maybe there’s a reason no one ever refers to him as Mature Red?

 

[Old Red]

Wow, you really squeezed a lot of insults into one post.

 

Why does he keep commenting on someone on ignore? Coward of the County.

[Old Red]

Maybe there’s a reason no one ever refers to him as Mature Red?

 

 

And I suppose you think others on here are all mature? Come on man!

[moonslav59]

Coming out of the bushes again for more word salad. It’s amazing you come out with this phony baloney I guess what have you done for me lately concerning your Boy Toy Kike, but you don’t apply it to JD, or Bogey who have both done more in the past than Kike could ever dream about for the Red Sox whom you have been dissing. Flip flop, and more MoonSlop.

 

I'll come out of the bushes for this one, aftercall, you set yourself up on a platter, quite nicely. Then, it's back to ignore.

 

I thought the past didn't matter- only what you do for me, this year. Talk about flip-flops.

 

BTW, JD was one of the best signings we've ever made. I've never even hinted otherwise. Yes, I've been critical about this year's production- just like you have b een about just about everyone, except Bogey, JD and Vaz. On Bogey, I have said I want him back at more money than Story got. Yes, I've "dissed" his D and his lack of production, this year, but I thought it was only about this year in Old Red's world.

 

Now, try to just accept my position and agree to disagree. Follow your own maxims and don't "flip-flop."

 

If you don't respond, you win! You'll be the best poster on the board. What a golden opportunity for you to show you follow your own beliefs and edicts.

 

Bye.

[FredLynn]

The guy who keeps claiming we all need to "agree to disagree" and repeats his points as much or more than any of us really believes that continuing the argument means not "accepting" another's position, or rather not proclaiming he is right.

 

Has Red accepted my position that Kike had the best CF defensive season I have witnessed as a Sox fan? Hardly. I don't expect or even want him to agree. Was that statement by me a bit hyperbolic? I don't think so. Afterall, it's my "eye test."

 

I also went on to say that plenty of ex-Sox CF'ers have had great defensive seasons and careers, and they have. I also said I have no issue with anyone saying someone else had a better season. Isn't that the same as "agreeing to disagree" and a firm example of accepting another's position?

 

Yet, I'm made out to be the rigid one, unaccepting of anyone else's position. Yes, I'm guilty of "lastwordism." It's a fault I've tried to overcome, but here I am, again, doing just that.

 

Do you think Kiki had a better DEFENSIVE CF season than Bradley Jr? Its really too bad that Bradley could not hit the baseball because defensively he was fun to watch.

[moonslav59]

Do you think Kiki had a better DEFENSIVE CF season than Bradley Jr? Its really too bad that Bradley could not hit the baseball because defensively he was fun to watch.

 

Maybe I was caught up in the moment, but I really do think the 2021 season by Kike was the best defense I have ever seen. He seemed to have the instincts and jumps that JBJ had but with more speed.

 

The UZR/150 and DRS do not show it was the best season, but it was very near the top, so I don't think my "eye test" or opinion was NOT even a minor distortion.

 

JBJ was great. He was my favorite players for a long time. His defensive career was clearly number one, in my book, and I guess, if I could do it over again, I probably should have said "one of the best seasons," but I guess stat nerds are not allowed to give any opinions based on eye tests.

[Elktonnick]

And I suppose you think others on here are all mature? Come on man!

Red you need to remember that Bell hop is just a bookeeper. He just puts in little columns the results of others work. He is incapable of original thought. He is Moons acolyte.

 

Moon on the other hand just repeats numbers without any meanigful insight. Bell the bookeeper finds the numbers enthralling. Moon has posted nesrly 60000 times. It is obvious that he has no meaningful life outside of this board.

 

They are both truly pathetic souls. Feel sorry for them and their symbiotic relationship

[Bellhorn04]

Red you need to remember that Bell hop is just a bookeeper. He just puts in little columns the results of others work. He is incapable of original thought. He is Moons acolyte.

 

Moon on the other hand just repeats numbers without any meanigful insight. Bell the bookeeper finds the numbers enthralling. Moon has posted nesrly 60000 times. It is obvious that he has no meaningful life outside of this board.

 

They are both truly pathetic souls. Feel sorry for them and their symbiotic relationship

 

This post really establishes your credentials as an arrogant fool. Congrats.

 

I get along well with most posters here, so this is like water off a duck's back.

[moonslav59]

This post really establishes your credentials as an arrogant fool. Congrats.

 

I get along well with most posters here, so this is like water off a duck's back.

 

Well, at least he has exposed himself for what he is, after trying so hard to - obfuscate and deflect.

 

It seems fitting seeing him try to form a "symbiotic relationship" with Old Red.

 

Let's see if Old Red holds him accountable for name-calling, personal attacks and his favorite "acting like he knows more than everyone else"... NOT!

 

lmao!

[Bellhorn04]

For the benefit of anyone following this and wondering about this "symbiotic relationship" Elktonnick is trying to lay on me...

 

It all started because I was defending moon against repeated unprovoked attacks by Yankee fan troll JDavis76. This inspired the troll to start making homophobic jokes about me and moon.

 

Nick decided to side with the troll, and now he's running with it on a daily basis. A real class act.

[moonslav59]

For the benefit of anyone following this and wondering about this "symbiotic relationship" Elktonnick is trying to lay on me...

 

It all started because I was defending moon against repeated unprovoked attacks by Yankee fan troll JDavis76. This inspired the troll to start making homophobic jokes about me and moon.

 

Nick decided to side with the troll, and now he's running with it on a daily basis. A real class act.

 

Unfortunately, it's the way of the world, these days. Fracture. Divide. Personal attacks. Repeating lies upon lies, and then saying, "I didn't say it: I was just saying what others are saying." (Sounds like a certain person previously holding a very high position in our great country.))

 

The worse part is, they make obvert or veiled attacks, then run and hide behind statements like "why cant they just agree to disagree' or they "can't accept any differing opinions," when it's obvious it is they who can't let go of opinions held by others they disagree with.

 

It sucks the board has fallen to such low depths, and I'm not saying I have not been a part of this downward spiral. I have certainly not helped.

 

I went years never putting anyone on ignore- not even the infamous softlaw from the distant past, but I have recently, in an attempt to lessen the vitriol. I admit, I have snuck in some attacks after reading responses to those I have on ignore, and that has not helped- reverse the trend on this board, but I'm going to try and recommit myself to staying optimistic and reducing the amount of comments of certain posters proclivities.

 

I'm not saying I can do it, but I'll try- starting now.

 

[notin]

And I suppose you think others on here are all mature? Come on man!

 

Fair point

[Old Red]

I'll come out of the bushes for this one, aftercall, you set yourself up on a platter, quite nicely. Then, it's back to ignore.

 

I thought the past didn't matter- only what you do for me, this year. Talk about flip-flops.

 

BTW, JD was one of the best signings we've ever made. I've never even hinted otherwise. Yes, I've been critical about this year's production- just like you have b een about just about everyone, except Bogey, JD and Vaz. On Bogey, I have said I want him back at more money than Story got. Yes, I've "dissed" his D and his lack of production, this year, but I thought it was only about this year in Old Red's world.

 

Now, try to just accept my position and agree to disagree. Follow your own maxims and don't "flip-flop."

 

If you don't respond, you win! You'll be the best poster on the board. What a golden opportunity for you to show you follow your own beliefs and edicts.

 

Bye.

 

Any peace, but Moons piece. Come on Man!

Edited August 27, 2022 by Old Red

[Maxbialystock]

I'll come out of the bushes for this one, aftercall, you set yourself up on a platter, quite nicely. Then, it's back to ignore.

 

I thought the past didn't matter- only what you do for me, this year. Talk about flip-flops.

 

BTW, JD was one of the best signings we've ever made. I've never even hinted otherwise. Yes, I've been critical about this year's production- just like you have b een about just about everyone, except Bogey, JD and Vaz. On Bogey, I have said I want him back at more money than Story got. Yes, I've "dissed" his D and his lack of production, this year, but I thought it was only about this year in Old Red's world.

 

Now, try to just accept my position and agree to disagree. Follow your own maxims and don't "flip-flop."

 

If you don't respond, you win! You'll be the best poster on the board. What a golden opportunity for you to show you follow your own beliefs and edicts.

 

Bye.

 

Funny thing, but I also though JDM was a great signing and I don't mind giving DD credit for it. He already had a bunch of good bats thanks to Cherington (and Epstein), but JDM filled the gap created by Ortiz's retirement and, I think, made everyone else in the lineup better in 2018. He does have a problem with sliders from righty pitchers, but he has been valuable until this year.

[Maxbialystock]

Wasn’t even talking utility man with the Sox, but career. Best defensive CF they have ever seen in a Red Sox uniform is how he has been described on here. Exaggeration?

 

Career? So, just like that, you wipe out last season as irrelevant. Actually, that makes sense because you have characterized 2021 as a non-season so you can continue to claim Bloom is clueless.

[Old Red]

Career? So, just like that, you wipe out last season as irrelevant. Actually, that makes sense because you have characterized 2021 as a non-season so you can continue to claim Bloom is clueless.

 

We agree again Max. Well almost.You say Bloom is clueless, and I say he’s in over his head, so that’s close enough. Didn’t you say before that Bloom was borderline ignorant? Wow!

Edited August 27, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

Well, at least he has exposed himself for what he is, after trying so hard to - obfuscate and deflect.

 

It seems fitting seeing him try to form a "symbiotic relationship" with Old Red.

 

Let's see if Old Red holds him accountable for name-calling, personal attacks and his favorite "acting like he knows more than everyone else"... NOT!

 

lmao!

From the man who has done it all on here, and all of the above. The pot calling the kettle black. Priceless!

[harmony]

Does anyone know of a baseball forum with meaningful discussion free of personal attacks?

[dgalehouse]

In any large group , smaller sub groups will develop. Usually among like minded folks who tend to agree on most things. Sometimes they will feud with other sub groups who have a different viewpoint. TalkSox is no different in that regard. The problem is that people take things far too seriously. Then things can get nasty and personal. Everyone really needs to lighten up. This is not all that important.

[Old Red]

In any large group , smaller sub groups will develop. Usually among like minded folks who tend to agree on most things. Sometimes they will feud with other sub groups who have a different viewpoint. TalkSox is no different in that regard. The problem is that people take things far too seriously. Then things can get nasty and personal. Everyone really needs to lighten up. This is not all that important.

Well said, and it’s hard sometimes not to act like little kids, and yes I’m one of them.