Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[Old Red]

There is no "elite clique" here. We're all just a bunch of random Red Sox fans and we all think a little differently. I'm one of the most frequent posters, along with moon, notin and mvp78. I agree with them on some things and disagree on others. I don't think anyone tries to lord it over anyone here.

 

I was on a board once called Sawxheads where the posters split up into two main groups, optimists and pessimists, and it got very ugly. This board is much better.

 

I like a good back, and fourth, but I don’t get into name calling. I’ve said before that I know I’m in the minority on some of my opinions like when I said that I would not have rehired Cora, because of his cheating, but then someone took it from there, and said I didn’t like Cora, which was not true, but they went with it. It wouldn’t have mattered if it would have been Johnny Pesky I would have said the same thing, and I loved Johnny Pesky. Bottom line is an opinion is just that, and both sides can be right, and both sides can be wrong, but I’m going to voice it anyway even if I’m only 1 in 100 that thinks that way.

[moonslav59]

I don't think Renfroe was in the Sox long term plans and they saw a chance to trade him and pick up a couple of prospects and a good defensive outfielder. I don't think Bradley is in the Sox long term plans either.

 

Agreed, but JBJ has a $12M option for 2023 with an absurd $8M buyout. I know 2023 is not "long term" either, but with these tight budgets we've been seeing, this is a head-scratcher.

[Bellhorn04]

It's definitely a transaction you'd like to hear Bloom's reasoning on. Maybe we will.

[redsoxrules]

If we had JBJ last year instead of Renfroe the Sox don't even the playoffs. That's how bad JBJ was last year

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I like a good back, and fourth, but I don’t get into name calling. I’ve said before that I know I’m in the minority on some of my opinions like when I said that I would not have rehired Cora, because of his cheating, but then someone took it from there, and said I didn’t like Cora, which was not true, but they went with it. It wouldn’t have mattered if it would have been Johnny Pesky I would have said the same thing, and I loved Johnny Pesky. Bottom line is an opinion is just that, and both sides can be right, and both sides can be wrong, but I’m going to voice it anyway even if I’m only 1 in 100 that thinks that way.

 

Don't worry about it. All of us have minority opinions because each of our opinions are uniquely our own. I don't love the way Bloom works, but I love the direction this team is heading. I hate that Betts is gone, love that Price is gone, really like Verdugo, liked Beni, and loathe the idea that we may have to go through the same crap with Bogaerts and Devers soon. I haven't been thrilled with any of the pitchers Bloom has signed, but most of the free agents I wanted a year ago were total flops.

 

I thank Renfroe for his contributions, but he was overrated by some fans. His home run power and strikeouts are replaceable. Taking back Bradley's contract is merely the cost of getting two decent prospects. I don't mind JBJ on the roster because I always appreciate good defense, and it's really hard to win with bad D.

[Bellhorn04]

If we had JBJ last year instead of Renfroe the Sox don't even the playoffs. That's how bad JBJ was last year

 

True, but the year before that JBJ was good and Renfroe sucked. It's luck of the draw with a lot of these guys.

[moonslav59]

There is no "elite clique" here. We're all just a bunch of random Red Sox fans and we all think a little differently. I'm one of the most frequent posters, along with moon, notin and mvp78. I agree with them on some things and disagree on others. I don't think anyone tries to lord it over anyone here.

 

I was on a board once called Sawxheads where the posters split up into two main groups, optimists and pessimists, and it got very ugly. This board is much better.

 

I know sometimes, when someone defends their position, they might come off as trying be the "final word," but I'm not seeing anyone trying to "lord it over" anyone or everyone.

 

One example, I often say things like "Cora is the best manager the Sox have ever had," and I mean it in a way that is not taking into account longevity or most wins. I didn't qualify my statement, when I said it, but certain posters jumped down my throat. (Same with my Kike had the best defensive CF season I ever saw by a Red Sox player opinion- man a certain poster never let that one go. Who was "lording over" who on that one?)

 

I'm fine with people disagreeing, and I even said, I have no issues with anyone arguing Tito manager was the best or Fred Lynn the best defensive Cf'er. I just don't see how my opinion and supporting arguments was trying to lord over others.

 

I do nit-pick, sometimes, and play devil's advocate, too. I'm not alone on either of those. I provide stats and data to support my opposing views, and I think some take that as me ramming my opinion down their throats or some sort of bullying. Have I called some opinions absurd? Yes. Have I sometimes done some rather tame name-calling? YES! Maybe that's going too far, and it's no excuse to say others do it more or to a lower level.

 

I don't see a clique. Of course, some of us share similar views on various issues, so it might appear like we are "ganging up," but no way is there any sort of cabal going on here.

 

It's closer to a free-for-all madness than any organized cliques.

[moonslav59]

It's definitely a transaction you'd like to hear Bloom's reasoning on. Maybe we will.

 

My guess is his first point would be about the prospects.

[moonslav59]

Don't worry about it. All of us have minority opinions because each of our opinions are uniquely our own. I don't love the way Bloom works, but I love the direction this team is heading. I hate that Betts is gone, love that Price is gone, really like Verdugo, liked Beni, and loathe the idea that we may have to go through the same crap with Bogaerts and Devers soon. I haven't been thrilled with any of the pitchers Bloom has signed, but most of the free agents I wanted a year ago were total flops.

 

I thank Renfroe for his contributions, but he was overrated by some fans. His home run power and strikeouts are replaceable. Taking back Bradley's contract is merely the cost of getting two decent prospects. I don't mind JBJ on the roster because I always appreciate good defense, and it's really hard to win with bad D.

 

Well said.

 

The part about most of the FAs we wanted flopped tells a big story.

 

No GM is perfect with their signings, and when a GM had to fill 10 holes in his 40 man roster, he's bound to make more than 1, 2 or 4 mistakes.

[jad]

Don't worry about it. All of us have minority opinions because each of our opinions are uniquely our own. I don't love the way Bloom works, but I love the direction this team is heading. I hate that Betts is gone, love that Price is gone, really like Verdugo, liked Beni, and loathe the idea that we may have to go through the same crap with Bogaerts and Devers soon. I haven't been thrilled with any of the pitchers Bloom has signed, but most of the free agents I wanted a year ago were total flops.

 

I thank Renfroe for his contributions, but he was overrated by some fans. His home run power and strikeouts are replaceable. Taking back Bradley's contract is merely the cost of getting two decent prospects. I don't mind JBJ on the roster because I always appreciate good defense, and it's really hard to win with bad D.

 

But there's no replacing the ground-rule-double play! Anymore than Manny's "high-5-the-fan-then-wheel-and-double-the-guy-off-first" play.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But there's no replacing the ground-rule-double play! Anymore than Manny's "high-5-the-fan-then-wheel-and-double-the-guy-off-first" play.

 

I'm on record as saying that Renfroe's inadvertent hacky sack play changed October for the Red Sox... at least in the ALDS. It wasn't as vital as Benintendi's catch in '18, because the Sox didn't win the World Series this year... but if we're honest, Renfroe's goofy leg might be the reason Boston got to play another week in the postseason.

[Old Red]

I know sometimes, when someone defends their position, they might come off as trying be the "final word," but I'm not seeing anyone trying to "lord it over" anyone or everyone.

 

One example, I often say things like "Cora is the best manager the Sox have ever had," and I mean it in a way that is not taking into account longevity or most wins. I didn't qualify my statement, when I said it, but certain posters jumped down my throat. (Same with my Kike had the best defensive CF season I ever saw by a Red Sox player opinion- man a certain poster never let that one go. Who was "lording over" who on that one?)

 

I'm fine with people disagreeing, and I even said, I have no issues with anyone arguing Tito manager was the best or Fred Lynn the best defensive Cf'er. I just don't see how my opinion and supporting arguments was trying to lord over others.

 

I do nit-pick, sometimes, and play devil's advocate, too. I'm not alone on either of those. I provide stats and data to support my opposing views, and I think some take that as me ramming my opinion down their throats or some sort of bullying. Have I called some opinions absurd? Yes. Have I sometimes done some rather tame name-calling? YES! Maybe that's going too far, and it's no excuse to say others do it more or to a lower level.

 

I don't see a clique. Of course, some of us share similar views on various issues, so it might appear like we are "ganging up," but no way is there any sort of cabal going on here.

 

It's closer to a free-for-all madness than any organized cliques.

 

Having a different opinion on Cora being the best manager the Red Sox ever had, or having a different opinion being the best CF the Red Sox ever had is not jumping down your throat, but you took it that way. I keep saying that the opinions on here are just a small sample of what is out there in Red Sox nation. Just listening to Felger, and Mas they were trashing the Bradley deal, and so were the callers. Like I said before I listen, and watch shows from Maine to Boston, and read papers from Maine to Boston, and not to mention MLB, and there lots of opinions I agree with, and some I don’t just like on here. I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 60+ years, and I form my own opinions on what I see. Just like with all the analytics thrown out there you can’t beat the eye test. That is better then all the analytics in the world, so if I don’t like something Cora does, or Bloom does I’m going to say it. It doesn’t mean I don’t like them, or don’t like the Red Sox.

[Hugh2]

JBJ was just the throw in, and you know this how? They are going to sign another outfielder, and you know this how? Everything is just speculation at this point, and nobody mows for sure what Blooms intentions are at this point..

 

Logic, and reason. That’s how I know.

[mvp 78]

I don't think Renfroe was in the Sox long term plans and they saw a chance to trade him and pick up a couple of prospects and a good defensive outfielder. I don't think Bradley is in the Sox long term plans either.

 

I agree wholeheartedly

[Bellhorn04]

Column by Peter Abraham in the Globe coincides with the following points from posters:

 

1) It was all about the prospects. Bloom seems really high on both.

2) Sold high on Renfroe (Bloom didn't say that, Abraham did). Abraham also mentioned Renfroe's defensive issues.

3) Bloom expects some offensive bounce-back from JBJ.

 

So there you have it, folks. Maybe it looks FOS to some, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

[moonslav59]

Column by Peter Abraham in the Globe coincides with the following points from posters:

 

1) It was all about the prospects. Bloom seems really high on both.

2) Sold high on Renfroe (Bloom didn't say that, Abraham did). Abraham also mentioned Renfroe's defensive issues.

3) Bloom expects some offensive bounce-back from JBJ.

 

So there you have it, folks. Maybe it looks FOS to some, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

 

Basically what various posters have said, today.

[Bellhorn04]

Basically what various posters have said, today.

 

Sure was. It was kind of amusing, actually. Or, some might say, sycophantic.

[moonslav59]

Sure was. It was kind of amusing, actually. Or, some might say, sycophantic.

 

He probably stole the ideas from the self proclaimed posse.

[Bellhorn04]

He probably stole the ideas from the self proclaimed posse.

 

Ha ha, yes, the posse is really something. I guess it's appropriate that you are one of the leaders, living in Texas as you do.

[moonslav59]

Ha ha, yes, the posse is really something. I guess it's appropriate that you are one of the leaders, living in Texas as you do.

 

I’m just curious about who “proclaimed” it. We’re supposed to have kept our cabal secret,

[Larry Cook]

Bradley saw a huge spike in strike outs last year. If these come back close to normal, we would have a .230 hitter that plays great defense. Plus two decent prospects!

[Deja Doh]

This is just another terrible acquisition. Bradley was terrible before he went away. And amazingly he got worse.

[moonslav59]

This is just another terrible acquisition. Bradley was terrible before he went away. And amazingly he got worse.

 

He actually had a good season before leaving but I agree.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bradley ends up your 4th OFer. They sold high on Renfroe. You could see a deal coming from a mile away

[Sox75]

I LOVED and still LOVE JBJ. I hated to see him go! BUT... Letting one of our best offensive players, and a VERY SOLID OF'rs with an absolute cannon walk, then throwing us a bone, is insanity.

 

HR was a guy Boston fans loved, and a guy you can build a lasting TEAM around. These 1 year rental teams are killing the FRANCHISE. Fans lose interest wondering if it's even worth watching. We had a GREAT and unexpected year, and Bloom has lost interest already. It's like dealing with an ADHDGM. I was just starting to trust his decisions, and he does this?

 

TEAM. LONG TERM TEAM. Otherwise, we are simply playing a let's see if we can win with this new combo. It's not all about winning! It's BUILDING something that lasts. Competing with OUR GUYS, win or lose.

 

This is not the BOSTON Red Sox way!

[notin]

Column by Peter Abraham in the Globe coincides with the following points from posters:

 

1) It was all about the prospects. Bloom seems really high on both.

2) Sold high on Renfroe (Bloom didn't say that, Abraham did). Abraham also mentioned Renfroe's defensive issues.

3) Bloom expects some offensive bounce-back from JBJ.

 

So there you have it, folks. Maybe it looks FOS to some, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

 

 

I’d also throw in this deal potentially gives a better shot to Jarren Duran. If JBJ is not really a full time CF anymore, it might open the door for Duran to get some OJT in MLB.

 

This theory also might explain why Locastro was non-tendered…

[Sox75]

Bradley ends up your 4th OFer. They sold high on Renfroe. You could see a deal coming from a mile away

 

We just took on $24,000,000 for 2 years.

 

Even with arbitratration, HR is a total steal.

 

$24,000,000 for 2 years for a 4th OF who kills you at the plate? THE ONLY possible plus are the other pieces, and that's it. We still took on dead weight at a big price tag. That is baked in. The rest is speculation.

 

$12,000,000 / you. Could net us some decent pitching, perhaps out biggest need,

 

"Thanks to the vagaries of service time, Renfroe won't be a free agent this winter. Or next winter, even. He'll remain arbitration-eligible through the 2023 season, which means Chaim Bloom and Co. can keep him in a Red Sox uniform for two more seasons without an extension.

 

Renfroe is sure to see a significant bump from his $3.1 million salary in arbitration this winter, but not enough to offset the contract he could earn on the open market. That's bad news for Renfroe, but good news for the Red Sox, putting him in the running for the title of baseball's biggest bargain."

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sox75

[vjcsmoke]

Red Sox take a big net loss in the short term. Bloom must be convinced that the prospects we got back make up for losing Renfroe... OR Red Sox were already looking to upgrade on Renfroe with a free agent OF or winning the Suzuki sweepstakes, that's the only way this move makes sense to me.

 

Not only is JBJ a net negative when you consider his offense, his paid salary is higher than Renfroe's over the next 2 years.

[cp176]

Column by Peter Abraham in the Globe coincides with the following points from posters:

 

1) It was all about the prospects. Bloom seems really high on both.

2) Sold high on Renfroe (Bloom didn't say that, Abraham did). Abraham also mentioned Renfroe's defensive issues.

3) Bloom expects some offensive bounce-back from JBJ.

 

So there you have it, folks. Maybe it looks FOS to some, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

 

Did the author quote some source that we can not see with respect to the potential of either of these two prospects? Based on what I have read, it is hard to imagine anyone investing this amount of money in two prospects that have yet to really do much. It is an incredible deal to really understand. It looks on the surface that it really is about the future as in the real future. My future is this spring. I think that this deal is ridiculous. I'm not saying that Renfroe is an all-star by any means but I would take him over JBJ everyday. As for the two prospects - not likely to show up in our lineup for a while if in fact ever.

[Hugh2]

Red Sox take a big net loss in the short term. Bloom must be convinced that the prospects we got back make up for losing Renfroe... OR Red Sox were already looking to upgrade on Renfroe with a free agent OF or winning the Suzuki sweepstakes, that's the only way this move makes sense to me.

 

Not only is JBJ a net negative when you consider his offense, his paid salary is higher than Renfroe's over the next 2 years.

 

This is what I'm thinking, the trade looks more like buying prospects as is but it makes sense for a team that wants to compete in 2022 if they make another move in the outfield. For a team that has been making moves that makes it abundantly clear they have no plans on avoiding the luxury tax, I find it insanely hard to believe they don't plan on competing in 2022. The lock out may make us wait a long time for some clarity here but I'm anticipating more moves.