The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Old Red]

A no-trade clause does not mean no trade.

 

If the idea is to play him at 2B, then it may be him asking for the trade.

 

I agree on pitching. I just did not see any "wow" pitchers to overpay on. (maybe ERod)

 

I know Bogey won’t win any gold gloves at SS, but there a lot more pressing problems for the Sox that even if Bogey stays he gets moved off SS. Same for Raffy at 3B. ERod should have been signed, but not sure if he wanted to stay, or not.

[Bellhorn04]

I know Bogey won’t win any gold gloves at SS, but there a lot more pressing problems for the Sox that even if Bogey stays he gets moved off SS. Same for Raffy at 3B. ERod should have been signed, but not sure if he wanted to stay, or not.

 

I would not have complained if they re-signed ERod, but he spent most of 2021 having abuse heaped on him here. And that was when he was only making 8.3 million.

[Old Red]

I would not have complained if they re-signed ERod, but he spent most of 2021 having abuse heaped on him here. And that was when he was only making 8.3 million.

 

That’s what I mean that ERod might not wanted to stay in Boston anyway.

[Nick]

I'm guessing we have some intelligent people on this board.

 

There's one group that wants to keep Xander despite his mediocre defensive metrics. Most think $30M or so would get the job done.

 

There's second group that wants to extend long term contract to Devers. Most think $30M for 8 years may get the job done.

 

There's a group that belongs to both groups.

 

How realistic is it to have 2 position players making $30M?

 

Moon does zero baseline budgeting and he does a very good job. He constructs team payroll for all 26 players.

 

I'm lazy so I approach the team payroll based on what it is today and then add or substract from players leaving or coming.

 

We all know that Price's $16M comes off the book after 2022.

 

Cot has Devers at $10.25M this year. In mine mind, we ca give him an extension this winter using mostly Price's money. It will get us close. Which means our beginning payroll of $213M (close to $17M below the luxury tax limit) stays in tact.

 

Or we can also give that $16M to Xander. There will be some money leftover to sign couple of bullpen help.

 

We can also dream big and assume both Houck and Whitlock will be starters in 2023 and let Eovaldi and his 17M go after 2022 season. Starting rotation for 2023 could be Sale, Paxton, Pivetta, Houck and Whitlock. Under this scenario, we can keep both Devers and Xander.

 

Just a fyi, I'd pay to watch both Whitlock and Houck start. I want to watch them pitch 6-7 innings every 5th day. Shoot me. Go find me some relievers.

 

I have no idea how things will work out for Dalbec this year. Many of you want to trade him and I just don't get it. He is under team control for 5 more years. He has not played out of future Red Sox teams yet. Obviously Bloom still values him. Bloom came in here to develop young talent and I'm all for it.

 

I like our approach. We need to continue to develop our farm system so that when we can go for it, we have enough cap space to go grab that difference maker.

 

A poster here made an astute comment about maybe the game plan is to get rid of additional contracts before we swing into action. That gives us more time to develop a Matta or a Bello.

 

Our 'balance sheet' is getting cleaner.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Nick

[Old Red]

Arroyo said he’s willing to learn the OF. How long would it take to pull a hammy like he did at 1B?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Arroyo said he’s willing to learn the OF. How long would it take to pull a hammy like he did at 1B?

 

Depends if he trips over an infield bag jogging to the outfield...

[notin]

Arroyo said he’s willing to learn the OF. How long would it take to pull a hammy like he did at 1B?

 

He actually pulled it making that statement…

[Tedballgame]

No need. We have Kike, Verdugo, JBJ, Duran, JD and now Dalbec ahead of Franchy.

 

That was a joke.

[vegasbob]

I think the disappointment and antsy analysis comes from the 2021 success that came from a somewhat patchwork, low expectation crew vs the "loaded" AL East. Aside from the lockout BS, most might have expect3ed 1 or 2 new significant pitchers, a prime 1Bman, and a slugging OF'er to put the Sox in a strong position.

 

Now it does look like another hodge podge of a spare parts roster ( beyond Bogey, Raffy, JDM, EO, Kike, Dugo) , missing Frail Sale again, and Paxton. Where is Barnes psche this year ? We have a LH'ed BP, and a short bench.

 

Staying with the idea that the real plan is for a bigger shot in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the disappointment and antsy analysis comes from the 2021 success that came from a somewhat patchwork, low expectation crew vs the "loaded" AL East. Aside from the lockout BS, most might have expect3ed 1 or 2 new significant pitchers, a prime 1Bman, and a slugging OF'er to put the Sox in a strong position.

 

Now it does look like another hodge podge of a spare parts roster ( beyond Bogey, Raffy, JDM, EO, Kike, Dugo) , missing Frail Sale again, and Paxton. Where is Barnes psche this year ? We have a LH'ed BP, and a short bench.

 

Staying with the idea that the real plan is for a bigger shot in 2023.

 

There's no doubt that Bloom is looking ahead to beyond this year.

 

What's a little scary is all the talent we stand to lose after 2022. We'll be shedding a lot of payroll along with them of course. Which seems to set up a wild off-season of spending next year.

 

It's gonna be interesting to watch.

[a700hitter]

Depends if he trips over an infield bag jogging to the outfield...

Are they going to bigger bases in ‘22?

[moonslav59]

Word is Conforto turned down $100-120M from the Mets prior to 2021.

 

Soler signed for $36M/3 with the Marlins.

[moonslav59]

Are they going to bigger bases in ‘22?

 

JD is going to have to take longer detours.

[notin]

JD is going to have to take longer detours.

 

Hopefully they’re big enough for Arroyo to land on them when he trips. Hopefully they’re softer, too…

[Larry Cook]

Hopefully they’re big enough for Arroyo to land on them when he trips. Hopefully they’re softer, too…

 

Every day arroyo gets out of bed without injuring himself is a miracle unto itself! The guy bruises easier than bananas.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There's no doubt that Bloom is looking ahead to beyond this year.

Which seems to set up a wild off-season of spending next year.

.

 

Bloom will spend, but the word wild is just not part of his vocab. Once, back in college after exams, he put ice cubes in his Coke to make it fizz to the top of the cup.

 

The guy doesn't even buy wild fish at the market; too pricey, with the added risk of mercury or other toxins. He's all about farm-raised, only with organic food coloring from carrots or beets (drop them in a pan coated with oil and they never make a splash).

[cp176]

I'm guessing we have some intelligent people on this board.

 

There's one group that wants to keep Xander despite his mediocre defensive metrics. Most think $30M or so would get the job done.

 

There's second group that wants to extend long term contract to Devers. Most think $30M for 8 years may get the job done.

 

There's a group that belongs to both groups.

 

How realistic is it to have 2 position players making $30M?

 

Moon does zero baseline budgeting and he does a very good job. He constructs team payroll for all 26 players.

 

I'm lazy so I approach the team payroll based on what it is today and then add or substract from players leaving or coming.

 

We all know that Price's $16M comes off the book after 2022.

 

Cot has Devers at $10.25M this year. In mine mind, we ca give him an extension this winter using mostly Price's money. It will get us close. Which means our beginning payroll of $213M (close to $17M below the luxury tax limit) stays in tact.

 

Or we can also give that $16M to Xander. There will be some money leftover to sign couple of bullpen help.

 

We can also dream big and assume both Houck and Whitlock will be starters in 2023 and let Eovaldi and his 17M go after 2022 season. Starting rotation for 2023 could be Sale, Paxton, Pivetta, Houck and Whitlock. Under this scenario, we can keep both Devers and Xander.

 

Just a fyi, I'd pay to watch both Whitlock and Houck start. I want to watch them pitch 6-7 innings every 5th day. Shoot me. Go find me some relievers.

 

I have no idea how things will work out for Dalbec this year. Many of you want to trade him and I just don't get it. He is under team control for 5 more years. He has not played out of future Red Sox teams yet. Obviously Bloom still values him. Bloom came in here to develop young talent and I'm all for it.

 

I like our approach. We need to continue to develop our farm system so that when we can go for it, we have enough cap space to go grab that difference maker.

 

A poster here made an astute comment about maybe the game plan is to get rid of additional contracts before we swing into action. That gives us more time to develop a Matta or a Bello.

 

Our 'balance sheet' is getting cleaner.

 

I'm with you for sure with Whitlock and Houk both being used as starters. As most posters here have said, relief pitching can be found on the cheap. These two young guys should be given a real chance.

I'm in the camp of signing Bogaerts yesterday. He gets the job done and I'm tired of the over the top analytical approach to the game.

Keeping Dalbec is also a no brainer for me. I've heard some talk of him taking in some work at second base as well.

I like to dream - keep Devers of course.

[Bellhorn04]

A poster here made an astute comment about maybe the game plan is to get rid of additional contracts before we swing into action. That gives us more time to develop a Matta or a Bello.

 

Our 'balance sheet' is getting cleaner.

 

If you want a clean balance sheet, Bloom is definitely your guy!

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom will spend, but the word wild is just not part of his vocab. Once, back in college after exams, he put ice cubes in his Coke to make it fizz to the top of the cup.

 

The guy doesn't even buy wild fish at the market; too pricey, with the added risk of mercury or other toxins. He's all about farm-raised, only with organic food coloring from carrots or beets (drop them in a pan coated with oil and they never make a splash).

 

You are definitely the board's MSP (Most Sardonic Poster).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You are definitely the board's MSP (Most Sardonic Poster).

 

notin eats more sardines than me!

[Nick]

I'm with you for sure with Whitlock and Houk both being used as starters. As most posters here have said, relief pitching can be found on the cheap. These two young guys should be given a real chance.

I'm in the camp of signing Bogaerts yesterday. He gets the job done and I'm tired of the over the top analytical approach to the game.

Keeping Dalbec is also a no brainer for me. I've heard some talk of him taking in some work at second base as well.

I like to dream - keep Devers of course.

 

Good way to control cost is obviously to develop in-house starting pitcher.

 

Bloom made a great trade with Phillies acquiring Pivetta and Seabold for Workman and Hembree. It's anticipated that Pivetta will earn $3.75M in his first year of arbitration. Looking at his career numbers, he's been durable for most part. He made his major league debut back in 2017 with 26 starts and followed up with career high 32 starts in 2018. He mostly pitched out of bullpen in 2019.

 

What pops out to me was him giving up career best .234 BA last year. At 29, he's ready to take it up another notch. He has good stuff.

 

I hope to see Whitlock start. I really don't give a crap if he's not the closer. I want him to start. Give the kid a chance. He's under team control for another 5 years. Hats off to Bloom for picking him off the Yankees.

 

Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello and Matta. That will allow us to keep both Devers and Xander.

 

Bloom is slowly but surely collecting young talent for future. We'll probably see Casas this year and I hope Yorke will show up in 2024.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello and Matta. That will allow us to keep both Devers and Xander.

 

I think that's what they call "hope as a strategy", Nick.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello and Matta. That will allow us to keep both Devers and Xander.

 

This is the ultimate goal, at least for our fan favorites. And isn't it about time that the Red Sox join the rest of the universe and actually develop a few big league pitchers from their own system? A few guys have to take the next step or at least be given the opportunity.

 

Just from one ST game: I like what I saw on the mound from Andrew Politi, keeping every pitch down. Drafted in 2018, blah minor stats, but maybe he's found something. It happens.

[Bellhorn04]

This is the ultimate goal, at least for our fan favorites. And isn't it about time that the Red Sox join the rest of the universe and actually develop a few big league pitchers from their own system? A few guys have to take the next step or at least be given the opportunity.

 

Just from one ST game: I like what I saw on the mound from Andrew Politi, keeping every pitch down. Drafted in 2018, blah minor stats, but maybe he's found something. It happens.

 

We could certainly use a nice surprise from the pitching farm this year.

[Old Red]

Good way to control cost is obviously to develop in-house starting pitcher.

 

Bloom made a great trade with Phillies acquiring Pivetta and Seabold for Workman and Hembree. It's anticipated that Pivetta will earn $3.75M in his first year of arbitration. Looking at his career numbers, he's been durable for most part. He made his major league debut back in 2017 with 26 starts and followed up with career high 32 starts in 2018. He mostly pitched out of bullpen in 2019.

 

What pops out to me was him giving up career best .234 BA last year. At 29, he's ready to take it up another notch. He has good stuff.

 

I hope to see Whitlock start. I really don't give a crap if he's not the closer. I want him to start. Give the kid a chance. He's under team control for another 5 years. Hats off to Bloom for picking him off the Yankees.

 

Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello and Matta. That will allow us to keep both Devers and Xander.

 

Bloom is slowly but surely collecting young talent for future. We'll probably see Casas this year and I hope Yorke will show up in 2024.

 

Groome can be thrown into the mix too, but to think all of these pitchers developing into good pitchers would be more than just taking a big chance, and how many have had major arm injuries already? Sounds good money wise, but not very realistic, or sound thinking. If, and when they develop great, but until then you need a better plan.

[moonslav59]

Good way to control cost is obviously to develop in-house starting pitcher.

 

Bloom made a great trade with Phillies acquiring Pivetta and Seabold for Workman and Hembree. It's anticipated that Pivetta will earn $3.75M in his first year of arbitration. Looking at his career numbers, he's been durable for most part. He made his major league debut back in 2017 with 26 starts and followed up with career high 32 starts in 2018. He mostly pitched out of bullpen in 2019.

 

What pops out to me was him giving up career best .234 BA last year. At 29, he's ready to take it up another notch. He has good stuff.

 

I hope to see Whitlock start. I really don't give a crap if he's not the closer. I want him to start. Give the kid a chance. He's under team control for another 5 years. Hats off to Bloom for picking him off the Yankees.

 

Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello and Matta. That will allow us to keep both Devers and Xander.

 

Bloom is slowly but surely collecting young talent for future. We'll probably see Casas this year and I hope Yorke will show up in 2024.

 

I'm a big Pivetta fan & cheerleader. Yes, that was a very nice trade, even more so, if you take into account what Workman & Hembree have done since the deal.

 

Pivetta did look good, last year, and many might think he's due for a regression, but as you pointed out, he's at the peak of his career, and his numbers were not all that far off from his career line.

 

2021/career

4.28/4.52 FIP

3.8/3.5 BB/9 (actually worse)

10.2/9.8 K/9

1.4/1.6 HR/9

1.303/1.395 WHIP

 

Looking at the WHIP numbers, he's had 2.5 seasons over 1.305: his rookie year in '17, 2019 and the short 2020 season of less than 16 IP.

 

He's had 2 good seasons:

1.305 in 2018

1.303 in 2021

Those two seasons represented 319 of his career 561 innings or 57%. He just turned 29.

 

Can he regress? Sure.

 

Will he regress? I don't think so.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Groome can be thrown into the mix too, but to think all of these pitchers developing into good pitchers would be more than just taking a big chance, and how many have had major arm injuries already? Sounds good money wise, but not very realistic, or sound thinking. If, and when they develop great, but until then you need a better plan.

 

We don't need all or even half of the promising pitchers to give us something good, this year. Maybe only 1 or 2 will do, depending on the health and well being of the guys at the top.

 

How well Sale & Paxton do, when they come back might be the tipping point to the winning side, as well.

 

Maybe we can keep Houck or Whitlock in the pen all or most of the year. Both would work even better, but that would mean at least one of these guys would have to step up:

 

Crawford

Winckowski

Seabold

Keller

Hart

Bello

Groome

Murphy

 

If we end up using Houck and or Whitlock in the rotation for most of the year, we'd need 2-3 of the guys in red to step it up a notch, because hoping 7-8 out the 10 in balck might be too much to ask for:

 

Barnes

Brasier

Taylor

Diekman

Strahm

Sawamura

Davis

Robles

DHern

Holland

Bazardo

Valdez

ZKelly

D Feltman

K Ort

J Schreiber

or, convert a starter to the pen (see above list)

 

 

 

 

[Old Red]

We don't need all or even half of the promising pitchers to give us something good, this year. Maybe only 1 or 2 will do, depending on the health and well being of the guys at the top.

 

How well Sale & Paxton do, when they come back might be the tipping point to the winning side, as well.

 

Maybe we can keep Houck or Whitlock in the pen all or most of the year. Both would work even better, but that would mean at least one of these guys would have to step up:

 

Crawford

Winckowski

Seabold

Keller

Hart

Bello

Groome

Murphy

 

If we end up using Houck and or Whitlock in the rotation for most of the year, we'd need 2-3 of the guys in red to step it up a notch, because hoping 7-8 out the 10 in balck might be too much to ask for:

 

Barnes

Brasier

Taylor

Diekman

Strahm

Sawamura

Davis

Robles

DHern

Holland

Bazardo

Valdez

ZKelly

D Feltman

K Ort

J Schreiber

or, convert a starter to the pen (see above list)

 

 

 

 

 

This is all good, but i wasn’t talking about this year, but in the future.

[moonslav59]

This is all good, but i wasn’t talking about this year, but in the future.

 

True, and we'd need to start drafting or signing IFA pitchers more often.

 

I can't fault Bloom for taking Mayer, though.

 

There are other ways to acquire good young pitching- like when we traded Andrew Miller for ERod.

 

Your point about trading Betts without getting pitching back was very reasonable, but even then, we tried, but Graterol failed the physical. (I kinda hoped he did not fail it.)

[moonslav59]

This is all good, but i wasn’t talking about this year, but in the future.

 

While the list of promising SP'ers on the farm is not fantastic, do you think it has improved since Bloom took over?

 

6. Bello

8. Groome

10. Mata

11. Seabold

12. W Gonzalez

13. Winckowski

14. Murphy

17. Walter

19. Song

20. Ward

27. Crawford

 

After 2019

2. Mata

3. Groome

7. Houck

8. Song

10. Ward

11. Zeferjahn

12. A Ramirez (traded)

13. C Murphy

17. Bello

 

(Many are the same names just moved up or down.)