A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Maybe in a couple of weeks Cora can re-try injury prone Arroyo at 1st base. Cora felt guilty about Arroyo's injury because he put him at 1st base.

Note to Cora: If Arroyo was sitting in the stands watching the game, he would get injured getting up from his seat to buy a hotdog.

[moonslav59]

Maybe in a couple of weeks Cora can re-try injury prone Arroyo at 1st base. Cora felt guilty about Arroyo's injury because he put him at 1st base.

Note to Cora: If Arroyo was sitting in the stands watching the game, he would get injured getting up from his seat to buy a hotdog.

 

Kike had played 1B 89 innings. Arroyo looked very good at 2B and Kike in CF.

 

I'm still not sure they shifted so many guys around.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Kike had played 1B 89 innings. Arroyo looked very good at 2B and Kike in CF.

 

I'm still not sure they shifted so many guys around.

 

Perhaps Arroyo also spends too much time in the weight room. It seems anytime he has to stretch he pulls something.

[moonslav59]

This could be the starters up to the trade deadline:

 

19 @TOR Pivetta

20 @TOR Richards (Houck?)

21 @TOR ERod

22 NYY Eovaldi

23 NYY Perez

24 NYY Pivetta

25 NYY Richards

26 TOR ERod

27 TOR Eovaldi

28 TOR Perez

29 TOR Pivetta

deadline occurs right before we play 3@TBR, 3@DET & 3@TOR.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps Arroyo also spends too much time in the weight room. It seems anytime he has to stretch he pulls something.

 

Wasn't one injury a collision?

[Maxbialystock]

It's official: Bobby D. will no longer start against RHP.

 

 

 

I'm not surprised this change was made a day after Dalbec failed to hustle in attempting to catch a foul ball in game 2 against the Yankees. Ultimately, however, this decision was made (or must have been made) due to his lack of offensive production.

 

I disagree that "failure to hustle" was real. That was a dangerous wall he was running toward. However, either in the same game or another recent one, he failed to catch a good throw from Devers, and that is inexcusable. He is currently rated (DWAR) as the worst defensive firstbaseman in MLB.

 

So there are two good reasons to play Dalbec less.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

I disagree that "failure to hustle" was real. That was a dangerous wall he was running toward. However, either in the same game or another recent one, he failed to catch a good throw from Devers, and that is inexcusable. He is currently rated (DWAR) as the worst defensive firstbaseman in MLB.

 

So there are two good reasons to play Dalbec less.

 

I think he could have ran faster initially, so he could have slowed near the wall, but it is often hard for TV viewers to judge what Dalbec was thinking. He may have gotten a poor initial read on where the ball was going.

 

That, too, can be blamed on him, but at least it is not an impingement on his character.

[moonslav59]

I still think we are better than the Rays and A's.

 

It's hard to tell with the White Sox.

 

The Astros look better on paper than any AL team, but their pen is a mess.

 

If we finish behind the Yanks and/or Jays, then we were never as good as we became convinced we were, and nothing short of a couple major deals could change that.

 

Is that something this team should really do?

 

Is this the time to pull out the stops and mortgage some of our future?

 

The way some "fans" are talking, and I use the term loosely, we'll need some major trades to turn around this season.

 

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Maybe in a couple of weeks Cora can re-try injury prone Arroyo at 1st base. Cora felt guilty about Arroyo's injury because he put him at 1st base.

Note to Cora: If Arroyo was sitting in the stands watching the game, he would get injured getting up from his seat to buy a hotdog.

 

LOL. Or Arroyo would get hurt walking to the bathroom at night--tear a hamstring. He is injury prone, he is like glass.

 

It is time to bring up Cordero (assuming Arroyo goes on the IL) and hope he can put up some numbers against RHP. They can't go back to Dalbec at 1b as a full time player. Thus, it is time for the miserable platoon of Cordero and Dalbec to commence!

 

The Red Sox problems right now extend beyond Dalbec--Verdugo and Renfroe in particular are going through a rough stretch. Thus, a better strategy: trade for a starting 1b like J.Schoop and promote Cordero to give him some at bats against RHP while Renfroe sits. Cordero takes Arroyo's roster spot (IL) and Schoop takes Dalbec's roster spot (demote to AAA if the Tigers don't want him).

Edited July 19, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Is this the time to pull out the stops and mortgage some of our future?

 

One problem is that Downs is having such a crappy season and has probably lost some of his trade value. At this point, the Red Sox might be better off holding on to Downs than trading him and getting less in return. I would be willing to trade Downs, but I would expect a pretty big return for him. The Red Sox have some other nice prospects that can be moved including Jimenez, Wilson, Winckowski, Groome, and a few others. When I think about it, Wilson is redundant--he is another Hunter Renfroe (in the best scenario) a guy who hits LHP but is less effective against RHP.

 

There are certain prospects that I wouldn't trade including Yorke, Houck, and Duran. I really don't want to trade Bello or Groome but I would listen and consider it if the right offer came along.

 

I would like to see the Red Sox get first base figured out, acquire a starting 1b, whether that player is C.Santana or J.Schoop. Once the Red Sox acquire a legitimate starting 1b, they can look internally (Cordero) to give some help to Renfroe. When Arroyo returns, the Red Sox will have the option of playing Arroyo at 2b and moving Hernandez to the OF for some games.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[oldtimer]

In truth, the Sox hitting was missing for all three Yankee games although in the first there were several shots to the wall that were caught. Verdugo and JDM are both struggling as is Renfroe. Dalbec just isn't hitting at all and with Arroyo injured, we lost a guy who was giving us some good AB's. Duran being a newbie is an unknown at this point. Was the Yankee pitching that good? There are a lot of question marks now so it certainly can inform Bloom about how to move forward in the trade market. Certainly a left handed first baseman is needed. Beyond that, Sox management needs to decide if this team is capable of a major run or not, and act accordingly in the trade market.

[Nick]

In truth, the Sox hitting was missing for all three Yankee games although in the first there were several shots to the wall that were caught. Verdugo and JDM are both struggling as is Renfroe. Dalbec just isn't hitting at all and with Arroyo injured, we lost a guy who was giving us some good AB's. Duran being a newbie is an unknown at this point. Was the Yankee pitching that good? There are a lot of question marks now so it certainly can inform Bloom about how to move forward in the trade market. Certainly a left handed first baseman is needed. Beyond that, Sox management needs to decide if this team is capable of a major run or not, and act accordingly in the trade market.

 

Bloom has repeatedly said that he won't go for a rental. He would look for someone that can help the ball club not only for 2021 but beyond. And he won't mortgage the future of this ball club.

 

He envisions having a team that can be in the thick of playoff chase every year. That's the goal.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom has repeatedly said that he won't go for a rental. He would look for someone that can help the ball club not only for 2021 but beyond. And he won't mortgage the future of this ball club.

 

No rentals at all? Not even like the ones we got in 2018? He said that?

[moonslav59]

The only way I see us trading for a rental is by Bloom giving up someone he knows or is almost certain won't be part of the team's longer term plans.

 

I'm sure he wants to keep as many options open as possible, but there will be a slight roster squeezes this winter with free agent signings and Rule 5 prospects added to the 40.

 

Now, how good are the players he think might not make next year's team? Maybe not good enough to bring anything useful back, but who knows?

 

Trading for someone with multiple years of control left, usually means giving up good prospects, unless it's a salary dump.

 

Could be an interesting or very uneventful trade deadline for the Sox.

[moonslav59]

Of course, losing 3 series in a row sucks, but we all should have known the path to winning a playoff slot was probably going to involve a rough patch or two.

 

We need to remember that other teams have had or are going through rough patches recently, too. All AL teams have serious weaknesses. Some may make major moves at the deadline, while we may be relying only on rolling the dice with Sale. I'm sure we will hear much frustration from some posters, here, as the win now mentality takes hold.

 

I'm glad Bloom is at the helm. I plan on being a live for a few more years and like the longer term priorities very much.

[illinoisredsox]

If you count them, you can see I named 17 teams, including the A's and Rays, who haven't won the WS in the last 20 years.

 

That said, however, the now lengthy playoffs have made upsets more likely, which is why 13 different teams have won the WS in the last 20 years. To me that's huge! It should give hope to all kinds of teams. In 2019, for example, the Nationals were the first DC-based team to win the WS in the history of MLB because the old Washington Senators, all three iterations of them, never did. Even better, the Nationals won the WS after dumping Bryce Harper, now with the Phillies.

 

The original Senators won the World Series in 1924, beating the Giants in 7 games. I recall reading it took a couple of bad hop singles to accomplish it, but they did it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I still think we are better than the Rays and A's.

 

It's hard to tell with the White Sox.

 

The Astros look better on paper than any AL team, but their pen is a mess.

 

If we finish behind the Yanks and/or Jays, then we were never as good as we became convinced we were, and nothing short of a couple major deals could change that.

 

Is that something this team should really do?

 

Is this the time to pull out the stops and mortgage some of our future?

 

The way some "fans" are talking, and I use the term loosely, we'll need some major trades to turn around this season.

 

 

I've never thought the Sox were that good this year, but knew the Yanks weren't from the beginning. The Jays are young enough on a whole to be less likely to break down (supple muscle tissue), and thus capable of going on a run. Still can't figure out the consistent resilience of the Rays, losing their ace and hanging tough in every series. Underrated regulars, depth of decency?

 

The Sox have a 40-man crunch coming where they'll lose guys to Rule 5, so Bloom will deal. Whether he can upgrade with impact on the pitching staff and at first -- Rizzo, not Cron -- may go a long way in contending, instead of hoping Duran Ks less than other call-ups (Dalbec, Chavis, Cordero) and counting on Sale for regular quality starts in the rotation for two months.

[moonslav59]

I've never thought the Sox were that good this year, but knew the Yanks weren't from the beginning. The Jays are young enough on a whole to be less likely to break down (supple muscle tissue), and thus capable of going on a run. Still can't figure out the consistent resilience of the Rays, losing their ace and hanging tough in every series. Underrated regulars, depth of decency?

 

The Sox have a 40-man crunch coming where they'll lose guys to Rule 5, so Bloom will deal. Whether he can upgrade with impact on the pitching staff and at first -- Rizzo, not Cron -- may go a long way in contending, instead of hoping Duran Ks less than other call-ups (Dalbec, Chavis, Cordero) and counting on Sale for regular quality starts in the rotation for two months.

 

I'm not sure how big "the crunch" is.

 

If we only sign 3 FAs, it's hardly one, at all. If we sign 4-6, maybe 1-2 players may be lost to Rule 5.

 

It also depends on how much Bloom values some players currently on the 40 man roster, but appear to be bubble ML'ers. There are also some options and arbs that may not be taken. Also, the possible JD opt-out, but one has to think, if he bolts, we replace his roster spot with another added FA.

 

Here is the solid core of 25 keepers

 

Devers

Bogey

Sale

Eovaldi

Pivetta

Whitlock

Houck

Renfroe

Kike

Vaz (option accepted)

Taylor

DHern

Arroyo

Duran

Verdugo

Dalbec

Cordero

Sawamura

Seabold

Mata

R Hernandez

Groome

Bazardo (perhaps a bubble player)

Valdez (perhaps a bubble player)

Brasier (perhaps a bubble player)

 

JD opt out? (26th man or replaced by FA)

 

Options taken or not?

Richards (not likely)

M Perez (maybe)

Andriese (I hope not)

(Maybe we're at 27 with Perez option)

 

Bubble or gone:

Arauz

Chavis

Wilson

Rios

Plawecki or Wong

Potts

Rosario

(I guess we keep 1 catcher, Rosario, Potts and maybe Wilson- that makes 30-31)

 

FAs lost, resigned or replaced

ERod

Ottavino

Marwin

Santana

Workman

(We should sign 3-6 FAs- making the number between 33-37- most likely 34-35.)

 

That leaves 5-6 for Rule 5. It does not look like a big crunch, but maybe Bloom likes some of the guys I brushed off.

 

Rule 5 Winter 2021: (I deleted most no chance players.)

 

Brayan Bello

Cole Brannen

Pedro Castellanos

Kole Cottam

Kutter Crawford

Tyler Dearden

Jeter Downs

Durbin Feltman

Frank German

Devlin Granberg

Gilberto Jimenez

Kaleb Ort

Yusniel Padron-Artiles

AJ Politi

Tyreque Reed

Victor Santos

Alex Scherff

John Schreiber

Thaddeus Ward

Josh Winckowski

[mvp 78]

No rentals at all? Not even like the ones we got in 2018? He said that?

 

There was probably an emphasis on not mortgaging the future, but I bet he'd make smaller deals for prospects he doesn't think will make it.

[mvp 78]

Plawecki has played well below his 2020 performance. He won't be back next year.

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure how big "the crunch" is.

 

If we only sign 3 FAs, it's hardly one, at all. If we sign 4-6, maybe 1-2 players may be lost to Rule 5.

 

It also depends on how much Bloom values some players currently on the 40 man roster, but appear to be bubble ML'ers. There are also some options and arbs that may not be taken. Also, the possible JD opt-out, but one has to think, if he bolts, we replace his roster spot with another added FA.

 

Here is the solid core of 25 keepers

 

Devers

Bogey

Sale

Eovaldi

Pivetta

Whitlock

Houck

Renfroe

Kike

Vaz (option accepted)

Taylor

DHern

Arroyo

Duran

Verdugo

Dalbec

Cordero

Sawamura

Seabold

Mata

R Hernandez

Groome

Bazardo (perhaps a bubble player)

Valdez (perhaps a bubble player)

Brasier (perhaps a bubble player)

 

JD opt out? (26th man or replaced by FA)

 

Options taken or not?

Richards (not likely)

M Perez (maybe)

Andriese (I hope not)

(Maybe we're at 27 with Perez option)

 

Bubble or gone:

Arauz

Chavis

Wilson

Rios

Plawecki or Wong

Potts

Rosario

(I guess we keep 1 catcher, Rosario, Potts and maybe Wilson- that makes 30-31)

 

FAs lost, resigned or replaced

ERod

Ottavino

Marwin

Santana

Workman

(We should sign 3-6 FAs- making the number between 33-37- most likely 34-35.)

 

That leaves 5-6 for Rule 5. It does not look like a big crunch, but maybe Bloom likes some of the guys I brushed off.

 

Rule 5 Winter 2021: (I deleted most no chance players.)

 

Brayan Bello

Cole Brannen

Pedro Castellanos

Kole Cottam

Kutter Crawford

Tyler Dearden

Jeter Downs

Durbin Feltman

Frank German

Devlin Granberg

Gilberto Jimenez

Kaleb Ort

Yusniel Padron-Artiles

AJ Politi

Tyreque Reed

Victor Santos

Alex Scherff

John Schreiber

Thaddeus Ward

Josh Winckowski

 

It may come down to Ward vs Scherff. Scherff has been written off, but has pitched really well this year. I could see a team being more likely to grab Scherff than Ward.

[oldtimer]

Of course, losing 3 series in a row sucks, but we all should have known the path to winning a playoff slot was probably going to involve a rough patch or two.

 

We need to remember that other teams have had or are going through rough patches recently, too. All AL teams have serious weaknesses. Some may make major moves at the deadline, while we may be relying only on rolling the dice with Sale. I'm sure we will hear much frustration from some posters, here, as the win now mentality takes hold.

 

I'm glad Bloom is at the helm. I plan on being a live for a few more years and like the longer term priorities very much.

It's important to understand why we are having a rough period so attention can be directed to those areas. Based on the past few series, we have failed to produce runs more often than not. Players we rely on have not produced and that is a worry. JDM has looked out of whack at the plate, taking multiple good pitches and chasing bad. Verdugo is pressing and not getting results, Renfroe is having a tough time with breaking balls and of course Dalbec is just not hitting. Losing Arroyo to injury hurts while Duran is too new to evaluate.

 

Defense remains a problem for the Sox. Dalbec has made several misplays recently and Devers and Bogie have their issues as well

 

Our starting pitching went through a spell of giving up runs early. With our lack of run production, we have recently have had problems catching up.

 

The Sox can be helped with a better hitter at first base and perhaps also improve the defense.

 

Rafi and Bogie are going no where so we have to live with their defense.

 

Starting pitching that can make a difference is expensive and hard to find. I wonder if the Sox will attempt anything before the trade deadline or just hope that Sale and Houck can lift them.

[moonslav59]

There was probably an emphasis on not mortgaging the future, but I bet he'd make smaller deals for prospects he doesn't think will make it.

 

Yes.

 

Like the guys we lost getting Eovaldi (Beeks) & Pearce (Espinal) in 2018.

[mvp 78]

https://www.milb.com/player/alex-scherff-669085?season=2021&team=546

 

Between GRE and POR, Scherff has a 1.11 WHIP, 4/1 k/BB. If you ignore his first game (hadn't pitched in a game situation since 2019) he has only given up 3 runs all year. That first appearance included 3 bb's and a HR. Since then, he's only allowed 8 bb's in the next 20 appearances.

[mvp 78]

Yes.

 

Like the guys we lost getting Eovaldi (Beeks) & Pearce (Espinal) in 2018.

 

I doubt he'd avoid deals like that.

[moonslav59]

It's important to understand why we are having a rough period so attention can be directed to those areas. Based on the past few series, we have failed to produce runs more often than not. Players we rely on have not produced and that is a worry. JDM has looked out of whack at the plate, taking multiple good pitches and chasing bad. Verdugo is pressing and not getting results, Renfroe is having a tough time with breaking balls and of course Dalbec is just not hitting. Losing Arroyo to injury hurts while Duran is too new to evaluate.

 

Defense remains a problem for the Sox. Dalbec has made several misplays recently and Devers and Bogie have their issues as well

 

Our starting pitching went through a spell of giving up runs early. With our lack of run production, we have recently have had problems catching up.

 

The Sox can be helped with a better hitter at first base and perhaps also improve the defense.

 

Rafi and Bogie are going no where so we have to live with their defense.

 

Starting pitching that can make a difference is expensive and hard to find. I wonder if the Sox will attempt anything before the trade deadline or just hope that Sale and Houck can lift them.

 

With all the weak areas you mentioned, we'd have to trade away a bunch of promising prospects to fill even half of them.

 

I'm certain we are not going all in, this deadline- as in trying to win it all by trading away the future.

 

I doubt we even play it "halfway."

 

We might make a couple low-key deals like in 2018, but I doubt we trade anyone Bloom thinks is very promising. (I'm not sure many felt Beeks was all that promising.)

 

I like our chances, this year, but I like them more in 2022 and beyond. That's where I think Bloom's priorities are, too.

[moonslav59]

Plawecki has played well below his 2020 performance. He won't be back next year.

 

We won't keep Vaz, Plawecki, Wong and R Hernandez on the 40, so I agree. Keep Vaz and the younger guys.

[mvp 78]

We won't keep Vaz, Plawecki, Wong and R Hernandez on the 40, so I agree. Keep Vaz and the younger guys.

 

And maybe not even Hernandez.

[moonslav59]

And maybe not even Hernandez.

 

With Vaz's tenure almost up, I think we do.

 

He's doing well, this year and Wong is no sure bet.

[Nick]

With all the weak areas you mentioned, we'd have to trade away a bunch of promising prospects to fill even half of them.

 

I'm certain we are not going all in, this deadline- as in trying to win it all by trading away the future.

 

I doubt we even play it "halfway."

 

We might make a couple low-key deals like in 2018, but I doubt we trade anyone Bloom thinks is very promising. (I'm not sure many felt Beeks was all that promising.)

 

I like our chances, this year, but I like them more in 2022 and beyond. That's where I think Bloom's priorities are, too.

 

As they say, you dance with the dude that brought you.....something like that.

 

Bloom will stay the course. He'll make a trade if he thinks it will help the club this year and next and next. He definitely will not give up on his young talent that he sees potential.