A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[Kimmi]

Bloom and Cora are way better than Theo and Tito. Not even close. I even think DD was even better than Theo.

 

Right now Bloom has this team at the top with literally tons of replacement players. Theo always had money and his final years in Boston were unsustainable.

 

OTOH While Tito was a great manager, Cora is way better all around —managing, coaching, on-game decision calling, approach with players, mentoring, advanced stat analysis, etc.

 

Bloom and Cora with payroll flexibility will be the best duo in baseball. You'll see.

 

You do not have to sell me on the Bloom and Cora duo. I think they are awesome and may very well end up surpassing Theo and Tito. I just think it's a little early to anoint Bloom and Cora as the greatest. Time will tell.

 

At the same time, I don't think you're giving Theo and Tito enough credit.

[mvp 78]

Since May 13, the most pitches Whitlock has thrown in a game is 36.

 

It looks like they plan to keep him in the bullpen all the way this year.

 

It's July 14th. There's no way he starts a game this year unless the plan is for him to only go 3 innings. They are not going to stretch him out.

 

Maybe his best role is as a bulk reliever type? I don't think anyone would have been upset at that profile this offseason.

[mvp 78]

You do not have to sell me on the Bloom and Cora duo. I think they are awesome and may very well end up surpassing Theo and Tito. I just think it's a little early to anoint Bloom and Cora as the greatest. Time will tell.

 

At the same time, I don't think you're giving Theo and Tito enough credit.

 

Yes, too soon to call for both of them. Cora may be in the conversation with Tito though.

[Kimmi]

I believe the Olympic baseball will be over on Aug 7th.

 

You're probably right on the date. I don't think that changes the overall point that the Sox want Duran available, if needed.

[Kimmi]

Don't expect to see Barnes for a few days after all those pitches in the all-star game (

 

I was not pleased with Cash for leaving Barnes in that long. I thought Cash should have pulled him 2 batters earlier.

 

Professional courtesy, Cash.

[Kimmi]

Since Kike has come alive, the #1 spot in the order has gotten into much better shape.

 

At the moment, Kike is doing a very respectable job leading off.

[Kimmi]

Yes, too soon to call for both of them. Cora may be in the conversation with Tito though.

 

I do not disagree.

[moonslav59]

Remember all the Kike bashing over the first two months?

 

So many people think that all players will follow the trend they have been in over their most recent 2 weeks, 2 months and for some even 2 days.

 

[notin]

Would hang’em Chaim be interested in trading for berrios?

 

Sure.

 

Would the Twins deal Berrios for a package that doesn’t include Jarren Duran?

[moonslav59]

Sure.

 

Would the Twins deal Berrios for a package that doesn’t include Jarren Duran?

 

I doubt a package of Downs, Mata, Jimenez and R Hernandez gets it done, and I'm not sure I give that up for 1.3 years of Berrios.

[notin]

I doubt a package of Downs, Mata, Jimenez and R Hernandez gets it done, and I'm not sure I give that up for 1.3 years of Berrios.

 

So far, the buzz is Berrios will be very costly.

 

If he is, then it’s very likely going to require a package many are uncomfortable surrendering.

 

Given Bloom is working on a build from within strategy (my best guess), it seems unlikely he would empty the farm for a chance at a title potentially followed by mediocrity. And if Henry wanted that model, he would have kept Dombrowski.

 

I think Berrios/Duran is unlikely. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the price tag, but I would be if Bloom pulled the trigger. Unless he has as many questions about Duran as I have…

[moonslav59]

So far, the buzz is Berrios will be very costly.

 

If he is, then it’s very likely going to require a package many are uncomfortable surrendering.

 

Given Bloom is working on a build from within strategy (my best guess), it seems unlikely he would empty the farm for a chance at a title potentially followed by mediocrity. And if Henry wanted that model, he would have kept Dombrowski.

 

I think Berrios/Duran is unlikely. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the price tag, but I would be if Bloom pulled the trigger. Unless he has as many questions about Duran as I have…

 

That's the unknown.

 

Maybe Bloom thinks some of his prospects are wildly over-rated.

 

I'm pretty certain there are some wide ranges of prospect evaluation among GMs. Maybe not many, but some, and all it takes is one GM to really like someone Bloom likes way less.

 

We don't know who those prospects might be.

 

I'd love to see Bloom's prospect ranking chart, if he even has one.

 

Another factor is Bloom's vision on who will be on next year's 40 man roster. With pending FA signings and Rule 5 additions, he may identify 1-3 players that have some value, and decide to trade them now, rather than lose them, this winter.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I doubt a package of Downs, Mata, Jimenez and R Hernandez gets it done, and I'm not sure I give that up for 1.3 years of Berrios.

 

That's the kind of haul over a phone call that we've been led to believe a guy like Bloom would hang up on. An even swap for Jimenez would maybe make sense, since he plays the same position as Duran (unless the Sox spin doctors have been building him up the past year for this deadline).

[notin]

That's the kind of haul over a phone call that we've been led to believe a guy like Bloom would hang up on. An even swap for Jimenez would maybe make sense, since he plays the same position as Duran (unless the Sox spin doctors have been building him up the past year for this deadline).

 

I don’t think the Sox spin doctors possess the influence to cause Duran’s meteoric rise in the prospect rankings. Duran himself is doing something that impresses people…

[mvp 78]

That's the unknown.

 

Maybe Bloom thinks some of his prospects are wildly over-rated.

 

I'm pretty certain there are some wide ranges of prospect evaluation among GMs. Maybe not many, but some, and all it takes is one GM to really like someone Bloom likes way less.

 

We don't know who those prospects might be.

 

I'd love to see Bloom's prospect ranking chart, if he even has one.

 

Another factor is Bloom's vision on who will be on next year's 40 man roster. With pending FA signings and Rule 5 additions, he may identify 1-3 players that have some value, and decide to trade them now, rather than lose them, this winter.

 

I trust Bloom to evaluate talent. I don't see a fit with Berrios though. Bloom still values long term production and I don't think he'll be so quick to cut off his nose.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think the Sox spin doctors possess the influence to cause Duran’s meteoric rise in the prospect rankings. Duran himself is doing something that impresses people…

 

How I learned to love the Worcester jet stream.

[Hugh2]

Are we talking about Jose Berrios? a really good MLB starting pitcher with an extra year of team control Jose Berrios? add in trade deadline premium? The package you would need to land Berrios would make 90% of this thread laugh in disbelief.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Are we talking about Jose Berrios? a really good MLB starting pitcher with an extra year of team control Jose Berrios? add in trade deadline premium? The package you would need to land Berrios would make 90% of this thread laugh in disbelief.

 

Like I said: "Chaim?" "Click."

[Bellhorn04]

Are we talking about Jose Berrios? a really good MLB starting pitcher with an extra year of team control Jose Berrios? add in trade deadline premium? The package you would need to land Berrios would make 90% of this thread laugh in disbelief.

 

A comp might be when the Tigers traded for Price. He also had 1.3 years left I believe.

[mvp 78]

A comp might be when the Tigers traded for Price. He also had 1.3 years left I believe.

 

Tiggers gave up Drew Smyly, Willy Adames and Austin Jackson in the deal.

 

Jackson was a 3-5 win player at the time. Smyly was a decent reliever. Adames was a well regarded prospect at the time.

 

That's a big haul. I'm not sure the Sox would want to do that.

[moonslav59]

I trust Bloom to evaluate talent. I don't see a fit with Berrios though. Bloom still values long term production and I don't think he'll be so quick to cut off his nose.

 

To me, the only blockbuster type deal I'd like to see Bloom make would be for someone under control for more than 3 more seasons. (Like the Sale deal)

 

Of course, that drives up the return cost immensely.

 

Who here thinks Bloom would make these BTV approved deals for 3.3 years of John Means (worth 40.3 on BTV)?

 

A. Casas 47.7

B. Duran 44.5

C. Downs 20.0 +Jimenez 10.8 + Mata 9.9

D. Pivetta 11 + Jimenez 10.8 + Mata 9.9 + R Hernandez 6.8

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

To me, the only blockbuster type deal I'd like to see Bloom make would be for someone under control for more than 3 more seasons. (Like the Sale deal)

 

Of course, that drives up the return cost immensely.

 

Who here thinks Bloom would make these BTV approved deals for 3.3 years of John Means (worth 40.3 on BTV)?

 

A. Casas 47.7

B. Duran 44.5

C. Downs 20.0 +Jimenez 10.8 + Mata 9.9

D. Pivetta 11 + Jimenez 10.8 + Mata 9.9 + R Hernandez 6.8

 

 

 

 

I'd be tempted on Duran for Means. I'd do C and D. DEPENDING ON MEANS' HEALTH.

[Bellhorn04]

Means has been a shell since his no-hitter. Stupid things.

[moonslav59]

Means has been a shell since his no-hitter. Stupid things.

 

He had an 0.98 ERA in his next 4 starts after the no-no. (.370 OPS against)

 

His last 4 starts have not been great, but 2 were fine and none were Richardsesque.

 

IP ER

6.1 4

7.0 2

5.0 3 (4.42 ERA in these 3 games combined)

0.2 2 (injury)

 

He was not pitched since June 5th.

 

Of course, he'd have to be healthy to be traded for.

[moonslav59]

I'd be tempted on Duran for Means. I'd do C and D. DEPENDING ON MEANS' HEALTH.

 

Would you do Casas & Downs for Means & Mountcastle?

[notin]

I'd be tempted on Duran for Means. I'd do C and D. DEPENDING ON MEANS' HEALTH.

 

Baltimore wouldn’t do D at gunpoint. And even C is a stretch…

[Bellhorn04]

He had an 0.98 ERA in his next 4 starts after the no-no. (.370 OPS against)

 

No, I don't know where you got those numbers, but he had a 3.33 ERA in his next 4 starts.

[moonslav59]

No, I don't know where you got those numbers, but he had a 3.33 ERA in his next 4 starts.

 

My eyes are getting worse. I was looking at his 4/18 start as the no-no.

 

My bad.

 

He did have one good start after the no-no, but them kaput.

[mvp 78]

Baltimore wouldn’t do D at gunpoint. And even C is a stretch…

 

What if we added Chavis?!?!?

[mvp 78]

Dear pitchers, throwing a no hitter is bad for your health. Just give up a leadoff basehit and you'll be fine.