Red Sox Sign Marwin Gonzalez

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Stars aligning would actually include Casas, Duran and Downs being ready for the bigs sooner than later.

 

1b: Casas

2b: Downs

SS: Xander

3b: Devers

RF: Verdugo

CF: Duran

LF: Renfroe/Cordero

DH: Dalbec

 

That could be a fun lineup if the young guys are ready.

 

I like this lineup and bet we see it soon because Bloom does, too. His old team -- which we don't resemble in the most -- was never afraid to bring up young guys to ease onto the diamond (and replace higher-priced vets of similar skills). Also, perhaps a front office isn't so concerned with service time if it's not so concerned with keeping guys around for six years.

[notin]

I like this lineup and bet we see it soon because Bloom does, too. His old team -- which we don't resemble in the most -- was never afraid to bring up young guys to ease onto the diamond (and replace higher-priced vets of similar skills). Also, perhaps a front office isn't so concerned with service time if it's not so concerned with keeping guys around for six years.

 

I don't think service time is as big of a concern as actual defense. Right now, Duran is reportedly a bit lacking there. But I do assume he is in the plans for 2022 at the latest....

[mvp 78]

I don't think service time is as big of a concern as actual defense. Right now, Duran is reportedly a bit lacking there. But I do assume he is in the plans for 2022 at the latest....

 

Yes, but if they are going to through Cordero out there, it may not be much of a downgrade by using Duran instead.

[moonslav59]

And none of them should on their own. So far, Bloom has acquired a bunch of supplementary pieces at best. But then he is clearly not working with a limitless budget...

 

He's also acquired some players with high ceilings- like Codero, and beefed up the farm, more with quantity than quality, except for Downs.

 

He's also added Verdugo, who many instantly think of as not as good as Betts, but the guy is very good and has many years of team control left.

 

Our ML foundation is stronger.

Our farm is stronger and should jump higher, after this draft.

We have a bunch of short term role players biding time and maybe going on to extend or resign for a longer stint.

 

I'm not going to lie. I expected us to pick up at least a couple players for the longer term that look better than Cordero, German, Winckowski, Whitlock. this winter. It looks like we punted, but it was a good punt- not a shank.

[Nick]

Stars aligning would actually include Casas, Duran and Downs being ready for the bigs sooner than later.

 

1b: Casas

2b: Downs

SS: Xander

3b: Devers

RF: Verdugo

CF: Duran

LF: Renfroe/Cordero

DH: Dalbec

 

That could be a fun lineup if the young guys are ready.

 

I endorse this lineup!

[notin]

Yes, but if they are going to through Cordero out there, it may not be much of a downgrade by using Duran instead.

 

Cordero's metrics on Fangraphs are not impressive, but as they are only from 637 innings spread out over 3 positions and 4 years, there is really no conclusion to be drawn.

 

Do we give equal or lesser weight to this?

 

"Playing off his last strength, Cordero was also an elite defender in center field during his time in the major leagues in 2017. Going back to Baseball Savant, this time using Statcast’s catch probability metric, Cordero rates out very well, as he made all the catches rated from one-star difficulty to four-start difficulty, while failing to make his two five-star catch opportunities. In addition, Cordero was second-best in baseball by Statcast’s outs above average metric with an eight percent catch percentage added, meaning he caught eight percent more balls than he was expected to catch based on the degree of difficulty. It’s obviously a small sample size, but Cordero demonstrated more than enough success to show he could be an elite defender in center field going forward."

 

from https://www.eastvillagetimes.com/pno-positives-negatives-outlook-franchy-cordero/

[mvp 78]

...and how could they afford Middy, Verlander & Scherzer?

 

Mike Ilitch is worth over $6B. They went from 4th in payroll in 2015-2017 to 19th in 2018, 20th in 2019 and 22nd in 2020. If they kept Max and Verlander, they would have been 9th in payroll in 2019.

[a700hitter]

Cordero's metrics on Fangraphs are not impressive, but as they are only from 637 innings spread out over 3 positions and 4 years, there is really no conclusion to be drawn.

 

Do we give equal or lesser weight to this?

 

"Playing off his last strength, Cordero was also an elite defender in center field during his time in the major leagues in 2017. Going back to Baseball Savant, this time using Statcast’s catch probability metric, Cordero rates out very well, as he made all the catches rated from one-star difficulty to four-start difficulty, while failing to make his two five-star catch opportunities. In addition, Cordero was second-best in baseball by Statcast’s outs above average metric with an eight percent catch percentage added, meaning he caught eight percent more balls than he was expected to catch based on the degree of difficulty. It’s obviously a small sample size, but Cordero demonstrated more than enough success to show he could be an elite defender in center field going forward."

 

from https://www.eastvillagetimes.com/pno-positives-negatives-outlook-franchy-cordero/

His stat line screams border line major leaguer, or as we say in Brooklyn, he’s a bum.

[mvp 78]

Cordero's metrics on Fangraphs are not impressive, but as they are only from 637 innings spread out over 3 positions and 4 years, there is really no conclusion to be drawn.

 

Do we give equal or lesser weight to this?

 

"Playing off his last strength, Cordero was also an elite defender in center field during his time in the major leagues in 2017. Going back to Baseball Savant, this time using Statcast’s catch probability metric, Cordero rates out very well, as he made all the catches rated from one-star difficulty to four-start difficulty, while failing to make his two five-star catch opportunities. In addition, Cordero was second-best in baseball by Statcast’s outs above average metric with an eight percent catch percentage added, meaning he caught eight percent more balls than he was expected to catch based on the degree of difficulty. It’s obviously a small sample size, but Cordero demonstrated more than enough success to show he could be an elite defender in center field going forward."

 

from https://www.eastvillagetimes.com/pno-positives-negatives-outlook-franchy-cordero/

 

What I saw was a report that Cordero's route running was "interesting." I've never seen anyone be listed as both outstanding and highly questionable in various reports. Hard to really make too much of it until we actually see it. For me, the amount of smoke stating that his defense may be an issue seems hard to ignore.

 

Maybe his instincts are poor but his speed makes up for it? According to Fangraphs, he has a below average arm, negative DRS and negative UZR/150.

[notin]

His stat line screams border line major leaguer, or as we say in Brooklyn, he’s a bum.

 

Sporadic numbers spread out over to many seasons. 315 PA over 4 years wand 637 innings in the field at 3 positions in that same timeframe is not enough to draw any conclusion. It's not enough if it all happens in one year, but spread out over 4 when the player is in varying stages of development and health is nothing but inconclusive.

 

If 315 PA was enough to make a call, we would be looking at Chavis as a 2B with a .795 OPS and 30 HR potential, which should be enough to carve his name in stone into the starting 2B role. And that was all from one year...

[mvp 78]

His stat line screams border line major leaguer, or as we say in Brooklyn, he’s a bum.

 

If he played for a full season in 2018:

 

27 HR, 74 RBI, 74 R, 19 SB.

 

I guess that's a bum?

[mvp 78]

Since April 2018:

 

Cordero: 105 WRC+

Benintendi: 111 WRC+

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As optimists, we dream of Renfroe and Cordero bombs to the Mass Pike and the Prudential Building.

 

As realists, maybe we shouldn't forget they both played in San Diego on losing teams for three years. Once the Padres got serious, they got rid of both.

[Bellhorn04]

Now we're throwing her under the bus? This is the darkest timeline.

 

It was meant humorously, I swear.

[moonslav59]

Since April 2018:

 

Cordero: 105 WRC+

Benintendi: 111 WRC+

 

Beni +95 OPS+ from 2019-2020.

 

People act like Beni was some sure thing bet for 2021.

 

Sure, he has better history. He's already proven he can hit ML pitching for an extended period of time. He's a "safer bet," but what about the 2021 Red Sox screams for safety?

 

This is the time for experimenting, finding out who is worth keeping, and plugging gaping holes until some farm hands get a chance to prove they belong (or not).

[Bellhorn04]

Also, all the Tigers had to do was keep Scherzer and Verlander and they would have been fine. Never should have let them walk out the door.

 

??? They held on to Verlander until 2017 when they were horrible.

[mvp 78]

??? They held on to Verlander until 2017 when they were horrible.

 

Should still have him.

[moonslav59]

Should still have him.

 

Well,...

 

At the time, nobody knew he was going to age this well.

 

I doubt he alone, or even with Scherzer staying, would have made the Tigers into contenders. They'd have had to spend more (and more).

[jad]

Yes, I wish we had Mazza, Weber and Bozo the clown starting for us as we watched Betts being intentionally walked, all year.

 

That would have been fun.

 

Yeah. That's exactly the problem LAD had last year.

[a700hitter]

If he played for a full season in 2018:

 

27 HR, 74 RBI, 74 R, 19 SB.

 

I guess that's a bum?

but he didn’t do it in one season.

[moonslav59]

but he didn’t do it in one season.

 

Neither did Papi, until he got here.

[mvp 78]

Neither did Papi, until he got here.

 

120 OPS+ in 2002 (20 HR, 75 RBI). Granted, he only went under 120 once while with the Sox (2009).

[mvp 78]

Biggest difference with Ortiz was that he was at least physically playing full seasons (even if just combined with MiLB).

[notin]

Yeah. That's exactly the problem LAD had last year.

 

Betts drew 1 intentional walk last year.

 

Batting in front of Corey Seager (.943 OPS) and Cody Bellinger will do that...

[notin]

but he didn’t do it in one season.

 

But he is not a bum. There might be legitimate heath concerns, however...

[a700hitter]

Neither did Papi, until he got here.

Ortiz had 2 seasons with 400+ ABs each and 1 with 300+ ABs. Franchy has 300 ABs combined. Also, Papi wasn’t K’ing once every 3 ABs.

 

There is no comparison.

[mvp 78]

But he is not a bum. There might be legitimate heath concerns, however...

 

NO, you see, in BROOKLYN everyone is a bum so it's ok to call him a bum. He's a pig. He stinks.

[moonslav59]

Biggest difference with Ortiz was that he was at least physically playing full seasons (even if just combined with MiLB).

 

Not really, but not because of injuries, as far as I know.

 

He was more or less platooned in MN.

 

1997 51 PAs (594 in minors)

1998 326 PAs (40)

1999 25 PAs (563)

2000 478 PAs (0 minors)

2001 347 PAs (58)

2002 466 PAs

 

From 2000-2002, he never went over 478 PAs in MLB or combined.

 

That's way better than Cordero, of course, but he was never considered FT in MN.

 

[moonslav59]

Ortiz had 2 seasons with 400+ ABs each and 1 with 300+ ABs. Franchy has 300 ABs combined. Also, Papi wasn’t K’ing once every 3 ABs.

 

There is no comparison.

 

I'm not saying Cordero will be anywhere near the next Papi. I'm just pointing out that Papi was not FT with MN.

 

He also played 6 years in the majors with MN- playing in 455 games and 1693 PAs (67 gm/yr and 282 PA/yr- again, not because of injury, since he put in time in MiLB).

 

He didn't immediately establish himself as a FT'er or a great hitter until age 27 with Boston.

 

That's the only point I was making.

[moonslav59]

But he is not a bum. There might be legitimate heath concerns, however...

 

I'm more worried (or at least as worried) about Sale, ERod, Richards and Eovaldi's health than Cordero's.

 

I kind of find it interesting that some posters who refused to believe in "the cliff" and called us cliff dwellers "doom & gloomers" and now the ones full of doom and gloom over every move Bloom makes.