Red Sox Sign Marwin Gonzalez

[moonslav59]

Yet if we reverse all Dave's trades, we wouldn't be a whole lot better team right now. And the only guy Dave traded who has ever put up a star-level WAR is Moncada - and he cost $62 million. And we got Sale for him.

 

Why ignore all the signings? It's the budget that has us where we are now.

 

BTW, I'd love to have Margot and Dubon, right now, and the jury is still out on Kopech and a couple others.

 

I'm not pissed at Dave. The 2018 ring and record breaking season was worth all this, but make no mistake about it, we are where we are today because of 2018 and because of Dave (and Henry's decision to re-set and rewind.)

[moonslav59]

I never understood the compunction to defend a GM — and especially not one who is putting an unwatchable team on the field.

 

I never understood the compunction to criticize a GM who was handed a mess and who has had his hands tied.

 

Let's give the guy some time and see what he can do, once he's given a spending budget big enough to fill all the holes he inherited, including the big farm hole.

[a700hitter]

I never understood the compunction to criticize a GM who was handed a mess and who has had his hands tied.

 

Let's give the guy some time and see what he can do, once he's given a spending budget big enough to fill all the holes he inherited, including the big farm hole.

I am giving him a chance. 2020 was an unwatchable product. And he is heading down the road of another unwatchable squad in 2021. I am waiting for him to give me something to defend. And I will admit that I have had a bad taste in my mouth, because when Bloom was introduced to the season ticket holders, he promised us that it was a top priority to keep Mookie for the length of his career. Within a month, Bloom was shopping Mookie and then traded him. I never heard that Bloom made any good faith effort to retain Mookie, so, at best his remarks that day, were very disingenuous. I used to criticize Ben plenty, but I always appreciated that he was always straight with the fans.

[Bellhorn04]

Why ignore all the signings? It's the budget that has us where we are now.

 

BTW, I'd love to have Margot and Dubon, right now, and the jury is still out on Kopech and a couple others.

 

I'm not pissed at Dave. The 2018 ring and record breaking season was worth all this, but make no mistake about it, we are where we are today because of 2018 and because of Dave (and Henry's decision to re-set and rewind.)

 

I'm really tired of hearing about the cliff, moon. I think all us posters here are intelligent enough to realize what led to this, and don't need to have it explained over and over.

 

Can we stop using that word, or at least phase it out or something?

[notin]

I am giving him a chance. 2020 was an unwatchable product. And he is heading down the road of another unwatchable squad in 2021. I am waiting for him to give me something to defend. And I will admit that I have had a bad taste in my mouth, because when Bloom was introduced to the season ticket holders, he promised us that it was a top priority to keep Mookie for the length of his career. Within a month, Bloom was shopping Mookie and then traded him. I never heard that Bloom made any good faith effort to retain Mookie, so, at best his remarks that day, were very disingenuous. I used to criticize Ben plenty, but I always appreciated that he was always straight with the fans.

 

Would Chris Sale and Eduardo Rodriguez have made the 2020 team watchable? Can’t blame their absence on Bloom.

[a700hitter]

Would Chris Sale and Eduardo Rodriguez have made the 2020 team watchable? Can’t blame their absence on Bloom.

Sale’s injury was known in February before play was suspended. The roster at that time had only 3 other starters — ER, Eovaldi and Perez. That is not a viable starting rotation. I posted about it at the time, and the COVID delay gave him 3 months to get add some starters. He didn’t. The staff that he started the season with was a joke. In all my years of watching the Red Sox, I have never seen them start a season with a worse starting rotation. When ER went down, we were at 2 starters and still he did nothing. It was ridiculous.

[notin]

Sale’s injury was known in February before play was suspended. The roster at that time had only 3 other starters — ER, Eovaldi and Perez. That is not a viable starting rotation. I posted about it at the time, and the COVID delay gave him 3 months to get add some starters. He didn’t. The staff that he started the season with was a joke. In all my years of watching the Red Sox, I have never seen them start a season with a worse starting rotation. When ER went down, we were at 2 starters and still he did nothing. It was ridiculous.

 

As I’ve been saying, he couldn’t really add anything. His job involved cutting salary and resetting the tax, which is definitely going to be unpopular. But he couldn’t sign any good free agents and he had nothing of value to trade for a starter and no viable ones in the minors. So yes, the staff was horrible. This was confirmed for any doubters when borderline major leaguer Ryan Weber started the third game. But how was he supposed to get pitching?

 

Now I have repeatedly expressed disappointment in not keeping Graterol. But then, it’s not like I had access to whatever medical reports mixed that aspect of the deal. Bloom did...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As I’ve been saying, he couldn’t really add anything. His job involved cutting salary and resetting the tax, which is definitely going to be unpopular. But he couldn’t sign any good free agents and he had nothing of value to trade for a starter and no viable ones in the minors. So yes, the staff was horrible. This was confirmed for any doubters when borderline major leaguer Ryan Weber started the third game. But how was he supposed to get pitching?

 

Now I have repeatedly expressed disappointment in not keeping Graterol. But then, it’s not like I had access to whatever medical reports mixed that aspect of the deal. Bloom did...

 

Hate to rehash the Betts trade, but most of us will forever, anyway. But Bloom knew (and knows) the Sox biggest need was/is pitching. I really think the offers he got for Mookie were limited because of the inclusion of Price -- whose contract was more important to dump before his no-trade triggered and doomed Boston to twice as much budget drain than staying on the hook for only half of it.

 

The best LA would give up was Maeda, whose 6 wins in 2020 hindsight makes the Red Sox 30-30 -- and a playoff team. Would that have mattered? Who knows... the 29-win Astros were one postseason game away from going to the World Series.

[Bellhorn04]

Hate to rehash the Betts trade, but most of us will forever, anyway. But Bloom knew (and knows) the Sox biggest need was/is pitching. I really think the offers he got for Mookie were limited because of the inclusion of Price -- whose contract was more important to dump before his no-trade triggered and doomed Boston to twice as much budget drain than staying on the hook for only half of it.

 

I don't remember anything about Price having a no-trade about to kick in.

 

I think the offers for Mookie were limited mainly because it was one year of control and a $27 million salary.

[a700hitter]

As I’ve been saying, he couldn’t really add anything. His job involved cutting salary and resetting the tax, which is definitely going to be unpopular. But he couldn’t sign any good free agents and he had nothing of value to trade for a starter and no viable ones in the minors. So yes, the staff was horrible. This was confirmed for any doubters when borderline major leaguer Ryan Weber started the third game. But how was he supposed to get pitching?

 

Now I have repeatedly expressed disappointment in not keeping Graterol. But then, it’s not like I had access to whatever medical reports mixed that aspect of the deal. Bloom did...

You make excuses for him. He leads an organization with lots of resources. If he wanted to hold the line on payroll, he could have pursued some trades. You can’t start the season with 2 starters. There is no rationalizing that away.

[notin]

You make excuses for him. He leads an organization with lots of resources. If he wanted to hold the line on payroll, he could have pursued some trades. You can’t start the season with 2 starters. There is no rationalizing that away.

 

I don’t think it’s an excuse to say adding free agents while paring $50 mill off the payroll is extraordinarily difficult if not impossible. And who was he going to trade? He could have dealt Benintendi or Casas. Beyond that, no one wanted much that the Sox had.

 

Hey I’ve criticized Bloom. I don’t like that he rejected the Graterol deal. I am big time not a fan of Marwin Gonzalez. But the inability to add decent pitching prior to the 2020 was a situation where his hands were largely tied.

 

Except for with Graterol. Still think he should have kept him...

[notin]

I don't remember anything about Price having a no-trade about to kick in.

 

I think the offers for Mookie were limited mainly because it was one year of control and a $27 million salary.

 

Price did not have an NTC. Unless you consider a $31 mill AAV an NTC, which it is for a lot of teams..

[Bellhorn04]

Some good GM's have started their tenures in tank mode, including DD with the Tigers and Theo with the Cubs...

[notin]

Some good GM's have started their tenures in tank mode, including DD with the Tigers and Theo with the Cubs...

 

Jeff Luhnow...

[Bellhorn04]

Jeff Luhnow...

 

Yeah, the Astros really upped the ante with their 'tank and then cheat' strategy...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't remember anything about Price having a no-trade about to kick in.

 

I think the offers for Mookie were limited mainly because it was one year of control and a $27 million salary.

 

My mistake -- I thought the Sox were on a deadline before they got stuck with his $32 mil per for three more years. Just glad they now only owe him $32 total...

[jad]

Some good GM's have started their tenures in tank mode, including DD with the Tigers and Theo with the Cubs...

 

Yes, and all of us started out sucking at sports. That doesn't mean that we thus all became professional athletes, although maybe one or two of us became good ones.

[jad]

Hate to rehash the Betts trade, but most of us will forever, anyway. But Bloom knew (and knows) the Sox biggest need was/is pitching. I really think the offers he got for Mookie were limited because of the inclusion of Price -- whose contract was more important to dump before his no-trade triggered and doomed Boston to twice as much budget drain than staying on the hook for only half of it.

 

The best LA would give up was Maeda, whose 6 wins in 2020 hindsight makes the Red Sox 30-30 -- and a playoff team. Would that have mattered? Who knows... the 29-win Astros were one postseason game away from going to the World Series.

 

But then again, if the biggest need was pitching, why would you pay half your ace's salary to play for someone else?

 

The biggest need in the minds of Bloom/Henry was to save money. Everything else (fan support, 'watchable' team, championship runs--which would be my priorities ... in that order) was secondary.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But then again, if the biggest need was pitching, why would you pay half your ace's salary to play for someone else?

 

The biggest need in the minds of Bloom/Henry was to save money. Everything else (fan support, 'watchable' team, championship runs--which would be my priorities ... in that order) was secondary.

 

But if they also care about your parenthesis, I'd argue that Price's tiresome grudge with Eck, and increasing style of stalling -- between pitches on the mound and sometimes between starts -- had eroded fan support and made the team less watchable.

 

It did for me, anyway.

[harmony]

Some good GM's have started their tenures in tank mode, including DD with the Tigers and Theo with the Cubs...

Does "tank mode" mean a long-range vision instead of the short-sightedness that leaves many franchises languishing in mediocrity?

[Bellhorn04]

Does "tank mode" mean a long-range vision instead of the short-sightedness that leaves many franchises languishing in mediocrity?

 

I think we all know what it means. It means making zero or little effort to win games in a particular season in order to reap the future benefits.

 

I won't say it's wrong or right. I don't blame the Red Sox for doing it in 2020.

 

I'm not a big fan of this expression, but I find myself using it more and more: "It is what it is."

[moonslav59]

I am giving him a chance. 2020 was an unwatchable product. And he is heading down the road of another unwatchable squad in 2021. I am waiting for him to give me something to defend. And I will admit that I have had a bad taste in my mouth, because when Bloom was introduced to the season ticket holders, he promised us that it was a top priority to keep Mookie for the length of his career. Within a month, Bloom was shopping Mookie and then traded him. I never heard that Bloom made any good faith effort to retain Mookie, so, at best his remarks that day, were very disingenuous. I used to criticize Ben plenty, but I always appreciated that he was always straight with the fans.

 

The offer he made Betts wasn't that far from what he got.

 

IMO, this team is far from unwatchable, but tune out, if you wish.

 

It all just seems like sour grapes, to me. You refused to believe a cliff was coming and unavoidable.

 

Pout, if you must.

[moonslav59]

I'm really tired of hearing about the cliff, moon. I think all us posters here are intelligent enough to realize what led to this, and don't need to have it explained over and over.

 

Can we stop using that word, or at least phase it out or something?

 

Fair enough, but it would be nice for the pouters to "realize what led us to this" and stop blaming a hand-tied Bloom.

 

They act like it's been Bloom's idea to cut the budget.

[moonslav59]

Sale’s injury was known in February before play was suspended. The roster at that time had only 3 other starters — ER, Eovaldi and Perez. That is not a viable starting rotation. I posted about it at the time, and the COVID delay gave him 3 months to get add some starters. He didn’t. The staff that he started the season with was a joke. In all my years of watching the Red Sox, I have never seen them start a season with a worse starting rotation. When ER went down, we were at 2 starters and still he did nothing. It was ridiculous.

 

You act like he had the resources to go out and get a stud starter- let alone 2.

[moonslav59]

You make excuses for him. He leads an organization with lots of resources. If he wanted to hold the line on payroll, he could have pursued some trades. You can’t start the season with 2 starters. There is no rationalizing that away.

 

He "wanted to hold the line?" LOL!

 

He should have kept doing what Dave did? Trade away prospects to cling to some unrealistic idea that we could have won in 2020 with just a couple additions?

 

Deve nearly emptied the farm and bloated the budget. There is no rationalizing that away, and deflecting isn't convincing most of us.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think it’s an excuse to say adding free agents while paring $50 mill off the payroll is extraordinarily difficult if not impossible. And who was he going to trade? He could have dealt Benintendi or Casas. Beyond that, no one wanted much that the Sox had.

 

Hey I’ve criticized Bloom. I don’t like that he rejected the Graterol deal. I am big time not a fan of Marwin Gonzalez. But the inability to add decent pitching prior to the 2020 was a situation where his hands were largely tied.

 

Except for with Graterol. Still think he should have kept him...

 

Well said, but we should have just gotten Maeda & Verdugo.

 

But we'd still have finished way out of the race.

[jad]

But if they also care about your parenthesis, I'd argue that Price's tiresome grudge with Eck, and increasing style of stalling -- between pitches on the mound and sometimes between starts -- had eroded fan support and made the team less watchable.

 

It did for me, anyway.

 

Oh I agree. I hated Price, and the Eck incident was a major part of it (although he somewhat redeemed himself by helping out the minor leaguers in the LAD organization last year). But you (oops, not YOU personally!) cannot argue "pitching is our priority" and then get rid of someone like that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Oh I agree. I hated Price, and the Eck incident was a major part of it (although he somewhat redeemed himself by helping out the minor leaguers in the LAD organization last year). But you (oops, not YOU personally!) cannot argue "pitching is our priority" and then get rid of someone like that.

 

Again -- unless your bosses told you to... which I suspect, but have no proof of.

[moonslav59]

Oh I agree. I hated Price, and the Eck incident was a major part of it (although he somewhat redeemed himself by helping out the minor leaguers in the LAD organization last year). But you (oops, not YOU personally!) cannot argue "pitching is our priority" and then get rid of someone like that.

 

One could argue Price's money saved was used to sign Richards and trade for Ottavino.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One could argue Price's money saved was used to sign Richards and trade for Ottavino.

 

I like it. Now if they can just contribute in more than 7 wins combined -- or 1.8 WAR -- it will be an improvement on '19.