2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

Kevin Morton did give them an outstanding MLB debut, throwing complete game with 3 H / 1 ER against a pretty tacked Tigers's lineup.

 

The rest of his career - not so exciting.

 

The real flop of the ealy 1990's was the Sox had gret expectations from a trio of young pitchers in the minors named Brian Rose, Jeff Suppan and Carl Pavano. Pavano had a decent career and no Sox fan misses him for one obvious reason. Suppan was taken in the expansion draft, but did have a mediocre career that included at least two later stints with the Sox. Brian Rose flopped like a salmon in a fishing boat...

 

I would say that was the mid/late 90's flop. Suppan was drafted in 93 and stupidly rushed to BOS, Pavano and Rose were drafted in 94 (neither made it to AAA until 97).

 

The best pitcher of the bunch (Pavano) was flipped to MON for some skinny RHP who had previously been dealt for Delino Deshields.

[mvp 78]

Help me fill in the gaps. Let me know of any others missing from this list.

 

1991 Danny Darwin 4, *Roger Clemens 4, Jack Clark 3, Matt Young 3

1992 Frank Viola 3

1999 Jose Offerman 4

2001 Manny Ramirez 8

2002 Johnny Damon 4

2004 Keith Foulke 4

2005 Edgar Renteria 4, Jason Varitek 4, Matt Clement 3

2007 JD Drew 5, Julio Lugo 4, *Ortiz 4, *Beckett 3

2008 Mike Lowell 3

2009 *Youkilis 4, *Pedey 6, *Lester5

2010 John Lackey 5

2011 Carl Crawford 7

2012 *Adrian Gonzalez 7, *Buchholz 4

2013 Shane Victorino 3

2014 *Pedroia 8, Castillo 7

2015 Pablo Sandoval 5, Hanley Ramirez 4, *Porcello 4

2016 David Price 7

2018 JD Martinez 5

2019 Nathan Eovaldi 4, *Vaz 4

2020 *Sale 5, *Bogey 6

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Saberhagen's 3 year deal in 94. Jeff Reardon signed a 3 year deal as well.

[mvp 78]

What were the original terms Tom Gordon signed for?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Scott Cooper gets my vote for worst player in MLB history with multiple All Star appearances. He was dealt away for a disappointing Mark Whiten, a player who had more RBIs in one day as a Cardinal than he did in his brief Red Sox career...

 

But Cooper made Bagwell expendable! Lou Gorman is still wondering where he was going to play two third basemen... then he had lunch.

[mvp 78]

But Cooper made Bagwell expendable! Lou Gorman is still wondering where he was going to play two third basemen... then he had lunch.

 

I don't buy that reasoning. Cooper was still in AAA when Bagwell was traded. Boggs may have been the bigger issue.

[notin]

I don't buy that reasoning. Cooper was still in AAA when Bagwell was traded. Boggs may have been the bigger issue.

 

I don't buy it either.

 

I seem to recall they did not even envision him as a 3B, and that his best position would ultimately be 1B. In which case, Mo Vaughn might have been a bigger factor...

[Bellhorn04]

The best pitcher of the bunch (Pavano) was flipped to MON for some skinny RHP who had previously been dealt for Delino Deshields.

 

Later to earn immortality with the Yankees as American Idle.

[mvp 78]

I don't buy it either.

 

I seem to recall they did not even envision him as a 3B, and that his best position would ultimately be 1B. In which case, Mo Vaughn might have been a bigger factor...

 

So Carlos Quintana wasn't an issue either???

 

The biggest reason was that they had a horrible bullpen and their window was closing for the group that included the last remnants of the 86 team (Evans, Boggs, Clemens, Buckner) and were on pace for 90+ wins. Maybe should have kept Lee Smith rather than trading for Bruno.

[mvp 78]

Dave Dombrowski must have been building that pen.

[notin]

So Carlos Quintana wasn't an issue either???

 

The biggest reason was that they had a horrible bullpen and their window was closing for the group that included the last remnants of the 86 team (Evans, Boggs, Clemens, Buckner) and were on pace for 90+ wins. Maybe should have kept Lee Smith rather than trading for Bruno.

 

I am not sure how much Quintana weighed into the decision. But the Sox had Vaughn coming up and he did prove to be every bit the beast they hoped he would be. Bagwell did have a better career, but this was a choice of choosing the lesser of two good things...

[mvp 78]

@BNightengale

Starter Daniel Gossett, who was drafted 10 years ago by the Boston #RedSox only to go to Clemson and pitch for the Oakland #A's,signs a minor-league contract with the Red Sox. He last pitched in the big leagues in 2018 before undergoing TJ surgery, and was released in July by A's

[mvp 78]

I am not sure how much Quintana weighed into the decision. But the Sox had Vaughn coming up and he did prove to be every bit the beast they hoped he would be. Bagwell did have a better career, but this was a choice of choosing the lesser of two good things...

 

The trade was Cooper or Bagwell. Sox made the wrong call. Could have sweetened a Cooper deal probably, but we'll never know. Bagwell was a higher rated prospect at the time.

 

I remember hearing that Bagwell was destined for 1b. Could have just moved Mo to DH. It would have prevented us seeing the George Bell slam, but we'd be better for it.

[mvp 78]

@BNightengale

Starter Daniel Gossett, who was drafted 10 years ago by the Boston #RedSox only to go to Clemson and pitch for the Oakland #A's,signs a minor-league contract with the Red Sox. He last pitched in the big leagues in 2018 before undergoing TJ surgery, and was released in July by A's

 

@IanCundall

Gossett is an intriguing depth signing for the Red Sox. In 2018, FB avg. 93 mph and had an above-average spin rate, but the pitch was hit hit hard. Pre-TJ, he threw SL 30% of the time & CB/CH

He will likely head to Worcester to start the year in what could be a very deep rotation with Bryan Mata, Connor Seabold, Chris Mazza, Kyle Hart and Ryan Weber already projected to start there.

[notin]

@IanCundall

Gossett is an intriguing depth signing for the Red Sox. In 2018, FB avg. 93 mph and had an above-average spin rate, but the pitch was hit hit hard. Pre-TJ, he threw SL 30% of the time & CB/CH

He will likely head to Worcester to start the year in what could be a very deep rotation with Bryan Mata, Connor Seabold, Chris Mazza, Kyle Hart and Ryan Weber already projected to start there.

 

Bloom has been doing a good job finding these depth signings and AAAA guys for Worcester and emergency depth. But the Sox really need SPs for some non-emergency games at some point. The staff has more backups than starters...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The trade was Cooper or Bagwell. Sox made the wrong call. Could have sweetened a Cooper deal probably, but we'll never know. Bagwell was a higher rated prospect at the time.

 

 

Except by Gorman, who blew it because he didn't do his research. He needed bullpen help and didn't consult his scouts when Houston asked for Bagwell. One scout almost quit he was so pissed. Fans in Connecticut, though, knew all about Bagwell: born in Boston, All-State at Xavier High in Middletown, CT, all-time leader in HRs, RBIs, BA in three years at University of Hartford, led Eastern League in hits in '90, destined to play in Fenway...

 

Worst trade in modern Red Sox history the day it was made, and it got worse four months later when Larry Andersen signed with San Diego.

[moonslav59]

But Cooper made Bagwell expendable! Lou Gorman is still wondering where he was going to play two third basemen... then he had lunch.

 

The thought of moving Boggs or Bagwell to 1B never crossed their minds?

[moonslav59]

Off the top of my head:

 

Saberhagen's 3 year deal in 94. Jeff Reardon signed a 3 year deal as well.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, the Sox signed Saberhagen signed for 3 years (98-00) at $12.5M with a 4th year option.

 

Reardon got $6.8M/3 before the 1990 season.

 

Gordon signed for $17.8M/5 before the 1996 season.

 

[moonslav59]

Udpdated with Reardon, Gordon & Saberhagen.

 

Help me fill in the gaps. Let me know of any others missing from this list.

 

1990 Jeff Reardon 3

1991 Danny Darwin 4, *Roger Clemens 4, Jack Clark 3, Matt Young 3

1992 Frank Viola 3

1996 Tom Gordon 5

1998 Brett Saberhagen 3

1999 Jose Offerman 4

2001 Manny Ramirez 8

2002 Johnny Damon 4

2004 Keith Foulke 4

2005 Edgar Renteria 4, Jason Varitek 4, Matt Clement 3

2007 JD Drew 5, Julio Lugo 4, *Ortiz 4, *Beckett 3

2008 Mike Lowell 3

2009 *Youkilis 4, *Pedey 6, *Lester5

2010 John Lackey 5

2011 Carl Crawford 7

2012 *Adrian Gonzalez 7, *Buchholz 4

2013 Shane Victorino 3

2014 *Pedroia 8, Castillo 7

2015 Pablo Sandoval 5, Hanley Ramirez 4, *Porcello 4

2016 David Price 7

2018 JD Martinez 5

2019 Nathan Eovaldi 4, *Vaz 4

2020 *Sale 5, *Bogey 6

[moonslav59]

Except by Gorman, who blew it because he didn't do his research. He needed bullpen help and didn't consult his scouts when Houston asked for Bagwell. One scout almost quit he was so pissed. Fans in Connecticut, though, knew all about Bagwell: born in Boston, All-State at Xavier High in Middletown, CT, all-time leader in HRs, RBIs, BA in three years at University of Hartford, led Eastern League in hits in '90, destined to play in Fenway...

 

Worst trade in modern Red Sox history the day it was made, and it got worse four months later when Larry Andersen signed with San Diego.

 

Who was the guy who traded for a pitcher because he was a lefty, but he was really a righty?

 

Also, worst Sox trades have to include Danny Cater for Sparky Lyle and Fred Lynn for 1 year of Frank Tanana plus Joe Rudi and Bill Lee for Stan Papi.

 

We also traded Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker, Jon Lester and Johnny Gomes for 1 year of Cespedes.

 

[kenmeister]

Wow it's depressing how few of those worked out overall. Matt Young is the guy who worked everybody to a 3-2 count right? I seem to remember the booth guys joking that when he's pitching they should just start the batter 3-2. But I may be misremembering him for someone else. I do think he's the guy who pitched a no-hitter and lost. Jose Offerman, gadzooks he was the worst fielder I've ever seen. Well at least until Hanley Ramirez was put in the outfield. Shane Victorino was clutch in 2013, I don't remember him staying beyond that year.

 

At any rate, it's freakin' Jan 3rd and nothing has happened. This sport completely blew the whole 'hot stove' thing. Wake me up in spring training I guess.

 

Wait, now I'm also remembering 3-2 being called the "Jack Clark" count. I wonder if Matt Young ever pitched to Jack Clark. If so, the at bat probably went 20+ pitches.

[kenmeister]

 

2020 *Sale 5, *Bogey 6

 

Can you explain? We didn't extend those guys in 2020.

[moonslav59]

Can you explain? We didn't extend those guys in 2020.

 

Their extended contracts began in year 2020.

[kenmeister]

Their extended contracts began in year 2020.

 

Yay that means 5 more years of Bogey!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who was the guy who traded for a pitcher because he was a lefty, but he was really a righty?

 

Also, worst Sox trades have to include Danny Cater for Sparky Lyle and Fred Lynn for 1 year of Frank Tanana plus Joe Rudi and Bill Lee for Stan Papi.

 

We also traded Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker, Jon Lester and Johnny Gomes for 1 year of Cespedes.

 

 

Your question reminds me of Greg Harris, who was ambidextrous and had a glove that fit either hand... but I don't recall if he ever threw both ways in a game like he wanted to.

 

I bitterly remember all the trades you named -- except I liked the Boddicker trade and still think it was worth it to finish first in '88 and '90. But even though Lyle was great for six years, and Lynn was my favorite player for another six years, Bagwell was the only Hall of Famer we had but never had.

 

At least we got to enjoy the early years of Mookie's Cooperstown career...

[moonslav59]

Your question reminds me of Greg Harris, who was ambidextrous and had a glove that fit either hand... but I don't recall if he ever threw both ways in a game like he wanted to.

 

I bitterly remember all the trades you named -- except I liked the Boddicker trade and still think it was worth it to finish first in '88 and '90. But even though Lyle was great for six years, and Lynn was my favorite player for another six years, Bagwell was the only Hall of Famer we had but never had.

 

At least we got to enjoy the early years of Mookie's Cooperstown career...

 

Schilling may end up in the Hall.

 

The Bagwell deal hurt, for sure.

 

How about the best 4 deals in Modern Sox history?

 

Pedro

VTek & D Lowe

The Dodger Dump

Schilling

 

Any others close?

[Bellhorn04]

Schilling may end up in the Hall.

 

The Bagwell deal hurt, for sure.

 

How about the best 4 deals in Modern Sox history?

 

Pedro

VTek & D Lowe

The Dodger Dump

Schilling

 

Any others close?

 

I think those 4 are Mount Rushmore.

[Bellhorn04]

The other premier trades were deadline deals.

 

Dave Henderson

Cabrera

Eovaldi and Pearce

[moonslav59]

The other premier trades were deadline deals.

 

Dave Henderson

Cabrera

Eovaldi and Pearce

 

Henri Stanley for Dave Roberts

Lars Anderson for Steven Wright

[dannycater]

Who was the guy who traded for a pitcher because he was a lefty, but he was really a righty?

 

Also, worst Sox trades have to include Danny Cater for Sparky Lyle and Fred Lynn for 1 year of Frank Tanana plus Joe Rudi and Bill Lee for Stan Papi.

 

We also traded Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker, Jon Lester and Johnny Gomes for 1 year of Cespedes.

 

 

I resemble this post.

[dannycater]

Greg Harris was ambidextrous