2020 Trade Deadline

[Bellhorn04]

I would actually like to see Perez moved. If everyone is healthy, this rotation is way too left-handed...

 

What's the big deal - it was too left-handed in 2018 too.

[notin]

What's the big deal - it was too left-handed in 2018 too.

 

Being “too left handed” with David Price isn’t the same as being too left handed with Martin Perez...

[moonslav59]

I would actually like to see Perez moved. If everyone is healthy, this rotation is way too left-handed...

 

I'd like to see him moved because he will not be part of our team beyond 2021, and he has value, right now.

 

The same applies to anyone and everyone not a significant part of our future (2022 and beyond).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd like to see him moved because he will not be part of our team beyond 2021, and he has value, right now.

 

The same applies to anyone and everyone not a significant part of our future (2022 and beyond).

 

I'd add Vazquez to the list of touchables. He's 30 this year, and to me is overrated as a catcher. Subtle things bother me, like trying to backhand a bounced curve or not getting the tag down or missing so many pitches last year (60% increase in staff wild pitches from '18). I'm not sure his game-calling is that stellar, either, considering the pitching performances since he's become full-time catcher -- remember, Leon was preferred and highly respected by half the veteran starters.

[moonslav59]

I'd add Vazquez to the list of touchables. He's 30 this year, and to me is overrated as a catcher. Subtle things bother me, like trying to backhand a bounced curve or not getting the tag down or missing so many pitches last year (60% increase in staff wild pitches from '18). I'm not sure his game-calling is that stellar, either, considering the pitching performances since he's become full-time catcher -- remember, Leon was preferred and highly respected by half the veteran starters.

 

I agree. Leon got much better results from almost all of our pitchers.

 

It's fire sale time.

[Monster24]

I'd like to see him moved because he will not be part of our team beyond 2021, and he has value, right now.

 

The same applies to anyone and everyone not a significant part of our future (2022 and beyond).

While a fair point the question is even if there are no plans to be competitive in 2021 the games still need to be played

You need pitchers to pitch and eat innings or you will kill the bullpen . And while wearing out a journeyman relief pitcher isn’t a big deal you run the risk of wearing out everyone or bringing up minor leaguers who are not ready.

 

I don’t see the Sox tanking 2020 and 2021 and all of a sudden contending in 2022. When the Sox went from worst to first before they had better young players than they do now.

If Groome, Ward, Houck, Mata, Dalbec,Duran pan out tough times could be short lived but out of the six how many realistically will (odds are 1 or 2)

[oldtimer]

I'd like to see him moved because he will not be part of our team beyond 2021, and he has value, right now.

 

The same applies to anyone and everyone not a significant part of our future (2022 and beyond).

 

I still want a team in 2021 that's fun to watch. I doubt the fans on this site would be pleased with a 50 win season. If we have a low cost guy that can help in 2021 and we can't trade for anything consequential, then why not keep him through 2021? Anyhow, it's up to Bloom to make those decisions, and so far I think he is doing well.

[Monster24]

I'd add Vazquez to the list of touchables. He's 30 this year, and to me is overrated as a catcher. Subtle things bother me, like trying to backhand a bounced curve or not getting the tag down or missing so many pitches last year (60% increase in staff wild pitches from '18). I'm not sure his game-calling is that stellar, either, considering the pitching performances since he's become full-time catcher -- remember, Leon was preferred and highly respected by half the veteran starters.

I agree. I think compared to the league as a whole he is definitely an above average catcher. But not a cornerstone like Varitek or the likes and at his age when the Sox are good again his skills will be diminished.

(Although if you listen to Dave O’Brien he’s the 2nd coming of Yady Molina)

[moonslav59]

While a fair point the question is even if there are no plans to be competitive in 2021 the games still need to be played

You need pitchers to pitch and eat innings or you will kill the bullpen . And while wearing out a journeyman relief pitcher isn’t a big deal you run the risk of wearing out everyone or bringing up minor leaguers who are not ready.

 

I don’t see the Sox tanking 2020 and 2021 and all of a sudden contending in 2022. When the Sox went from worst to first before they had better young players than they do now.

If Groome, Ward, Houck, Mata, Dalbec,Duran pan out tough times could be short lived but out of the six how many realistically will (odds are 1 or 2)

 

I'm not for tanking 2021.

 

While trading players like Vaz, Eovaldi and Perez might weaken our 2021 outlook, we will "save" some money that can be spent on replacing them with longer term players AND we'll get something worthwhile for both- maybe some players that are ML ready in 2021 but also under team control for beyond just next year.

 

I'm also assuming Henry opens the wallet wide in 2021, and by my calculations, Bloom will have over $70M to spend, not counting any "savings" he creates by trading some salaries, now. If Bloom can do "his magic," which is finding gems at bargain prices, maybe we can fill out our roster's many holes with players good enough to make us an exciting team to watch, next year. We'll still have Devers, Bogey, JD, Verdugo, Sale, Beni and ERod.

 

We may not have to count on much input from our farm, except to fill the bench. $70-90M can go a long way, if spent correctly. If Henry allows us to go $19M over the line, we could be even better.

Edited August 23, 2020 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

I still want a team in 2021 that's fun to watch. I doubt the fans on this site would be pleased with a 50 win season. If we have a low cost guy that can help in 2021 and we can't trade for anything consequential, then why not keep him through 2021? Anyhow, it's up to Bloom to make those decisions, and so far I think he is doing well.

 

We could wait to trade Vaz, Eovaldi and Perez until next summer's trade deadline, but we risk their stock value dropping. We aren't winning, this year, so their value from 2020 is near useless to us. I doubt we win it all in 2021, so their value is worth more for other teams than ours. That's what makes trading them worth looking into. If other teams need them more than we do, we can get better return value.

 

I get the point about being worth watching, next year. After taking 2020 off, we'll want some revenue from 2021. 3 years in a row of putrid play is not something Henry wants, nor the fans. I think we spend large, this winter, and will be fun to watch in 2021. We don't need Vaz and Perez to keep fans coming to games or watching on TV. Trading Bogey would be a different matter.

[Nick]

I'd like to see him moved because he will not be part of our team beyond 2021, and he has value, right now.

 

The same applies to anyone and everyone not a significant part of our future (2022 and beyond).

 

Best thing you've said....trade out for guys with potential and team control...I like the move with Hembree and Workman

 

I'm looking at 2022 for next playoff chase....Vaz will be in his final year (assuming option is exercised) ......his trad value maybe at its peak...see what we can get for him

 

Pedey comes off the contract after next year.....one more year of Price payment in 2022....we should have ton of cash to supplement hopefully our emerging prospects by 2022

Edited August 23, 2020 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

Being “too left handed” with David Price isn’t the same as being too left handed with Martin Perez...

 

Need some explanation. Why is having 3 left handers necessarily an issue?

[moonslav59]

Best thing you've said....trade out for guys with potential and team control...I like the move with Hembree and Workman

 

I'm looking at 2022 for next playoff chase....Vaz will be in his final year (assuming option is exercised) ......his trad value maybe at its peak...see what we can get for him

 

Pedey comes off the contract after next year.....one more year of Price payment in 2022....we should have ton of cash to supplement hopefully our emerging prospects by 2022

 

Yes, and guys like Moreland & Eovaldi (FAs after 2022) and Perez (after 2021) may be at peak value, right now, too. I'd mention Barnes, but his stock is low, rightg now, so maybe it would be better to wait until next summer and hope he shows improvement. I doubt Peraza (2 arbs left) has much trade value, either.

 

I'd also see what we can get for JBJ and Pillar, even if we have to pay most of JBJ's remaining 2020 salary.

 

JD Martinez is the toughest one to decide. He will certainly make us better in 2021 and 2022, but he is aging and costs a lot for a DH. I'd listen to offers, and I'd pitch in some cash, if the return was worth it. I'd lean towards trading him, now or next summer.

[Larry Cook]

After the game he threw last night, seems like now is the time to trade Perez.

 

Trade for Perez and we throw in a Martinez for free!

[moonslav59]

Let's assume we have a grand fire sale this year, and we trade JD, Eovaldi, Perez, Vaz, Moreland, but we keep ERod, Barnes and Beni (possible trading them next summer). This would be the general framework of our 2021 roster and budget:

 

SP1 ____________

SP2 ____________

SP3 Sale

SP4 ERod

SP5 Godley/Ward/Mata

 

RP1 ____________

RP2 ____________

RP3 D Hernandez

RP4 Barnes

RP5 ____________

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Valdez/Walden/Brewer/Brice/Osich/Houck

 

C ___________, Plawecki/Wong

1B Dalbec (Chavis) Ockimey

2B Peraza, Arauz/(Chavis)

3B Devers (Dalbec)

SS Bogaerts/Lin/Chatham

LF Beni

CF _______/ Duran

RF Verdugo/ ______/ Wilson

DH Chavis

 

Budget (assuming we pay 33% of all JD * Eovaldi's contracts for 2021)

 

25M Sale

20M Bogey

14M Pedey

10M ERod (last arb est)

7M Beni (2nd to last arb est)

4M Barnes (last arb)

13M towards JD and Eovaldi

16M for Price

$109M Total

add maybe $21M for arbs and min contracts and $15M for player benefits, and we'd be at about $145M on the luxury tax budget. The tax begins after $210M, so we'd have $65M to spend on free agents or $85M, if we allow ourselves to go over by $19.9M.

 

Biggest holes to fill:

SP 1 ($15-20M)

SP 2 ($10-15M

Closer ($10-15M)

Catcher ($5-10M)

CF'er ($5-10M)

SP5 ($5-10M)

RP2 ($5-10M)

RP5 & OF4 ($5-10M)

 

It's doable.

[Larry Cook]

Let's assume we have a grand fire sale this year, and we trade JD, Eovaldi, Perez, Vaz, Moreland, but we keep ERod, Barnes and Beni (possible trading them next summer). This would be the general framework of our 2021 roster and budget:

 

SP1 ____________

SP2 ____________

SP3 Sale

SP4 ERod

SP5 Godley/Ward/Mata

 

RP1 ____________

RP2 ____________

RP3 D Hernandez

RP4 Barnes

RP5 ____________

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Valdez/Walden/Brewer/Brice/Osich/Houck

 

C ___________, Plawecki/Wong

1B Dalbec (Chavis) Ockimey

2B Peraza, Arauz/(Chavis)

3B Devers (Dalbec)

SS Bogaerts/Lin/Chatham

LF Beni

CF _______/ Duran

RF Verdugo/ ______/ Wilson

DH Chavis

 

Budget (assuming we pay 33% of all JD * Eovaldi's contracts for 2021)

 

25M Sale

20M Bogey

14M Pedey

10M ERod (last arb est)

7M Beni (2nd to last arb est)

4M Barnes (last arb)

13M towards JD and Eovaldi

16M for Price

$109M Total

add maybe $21M for arbs and min contracts and $15M for player benefits, and we'd be at about $145M on the luxury tax budget. The tax begins after $210M, so we'd have $65M to spend on free agents or $85M, if we allow ourselves to go over by $19.9M.

 

Biggest holes to fill:

SP 1 ($15-20M)

SP 2 ($10-15M

Closer ($10-15M)

Catcher ($5-10M)

CF'er ($5-10M)

SP5 ($5-10M)

RP2 ($5-10M)

RP5 & OF4 ($5-10M)

 

It's doable.

 

We have to move peraza! He is terrible.

[moonslav59]

We have to move peraza! He is terrible.

 

That's why he cannot be "moved."

[Kimmi]

I would actually like to see Perez moved. If everyone is healthy, this rotation is way too left-handed...

 

I would be inclined not to move him. Again, I am one who thinks we'll be competitive next year.

[Kimmi]

My hope is that we make gradual improvements to the team while trying to field at least a competitive team in 2021. I doubt if we can go into competitive for a pennant until 2022 or 2023. To do that I would keep Perez and Moreland as two fairly reasonably priced guys who can contribute. Moon has done a great job of identifying the core guys and I would add these two to the list.

 

Once again, I agree. You need guys like Moreland and Perez on reasonable 1 or 2 year contracts to hold down the fort while restocking.

[a700hitter]

It does stink to see both Workman and Hembree go. I thought it was really cool that they both waited until after the game to leave so that they could say goodbye to their teammates.

 

I appreciate what they both did in helping the Red Sox win WS Championships, and I wish them both the best in Philly.

No hugs in the COVID era.

[a700hitter]

ERA is dumb. Also, a 4 ERA is actually good in this day and age.

5.50 career ERA stinks no matter how you slice it. You just don't stay in the majors very long hanging up that number.

[a700hitter]

ERA is not a good stat for relievers. Hembree’s year so far is a perfect illustration of that. That ERA is primarily the product of his last outing against the Phillies.

 

He pitched in 11 games this year for the Sox and allowed 6 runs in 9 2/3 innings. In 8 of those outings, he was unscored on; he gave up 1 run in each of 2 others and 4 in the Philadelphia game. His ERA going into that last game was 1.86. I will take a middle reliever who does the job 70% of the time every time. Note I said middle reliever.

 

Now to be fair, I don’t know about inherited runners but I think most times he’s come in at the start of innings.

A career ERA over 3.60 over 8 seasons is not meaningless for a reliever, nor is a 5.50 ERA for a starting pitcher over 3 seasons.

[a700hitter]

So what’s your point? Exactly what do you think guys like Hembree and Workman are worth in a trade? We weren’t offering Aroldis Chapman here. The Sox offered up two aging relievers having questionable seasons and a combined one season of control left after next month...

My point is that Pivetta stinks. if there is a saving grace to this trade, it will be the minor leaguer. I would have traded Workman and I have said that previously. He had a career season and his value was at a peak, but getting Nick Pivetta was a squander unless the minor leaguer has promise. Hembree was expendable.

[notin]

My point is that Pivetta stinks. if there is a saving grace to this trade, it will be the minor leaguer. I would have traded Workman and I have said that previously. He had a career season and his value was at a peak, but getting Nick Pivetta was a squander unless the minor leaguer has promise. Hembree was expendable.

 

Workman has some value, but the problem this years is GMs might be hesitant with rental players knowing there’s always the chance the postseason is just cancelled. Look how badly the Mookie trade almost worked out for the Dodgers. In April and May, there was no season in sight, and they had no extension in place. Imagine if that situation continued.

 

Pivetta is a gamble. But he was always a guy whose stuff was just flat out good. He might not pan out, but I don’t think he’s any bigger of a gamble than any minor leaguer that could have been acquired for Workman. Maybe Seabold will be the better pitcher, but no one knows whether or not that will happen. Remember Edwin Escobar? He was acquired with Hembree in the Peavy trade. And Escobar was supposedly the better prospect, even getting ranked by BA. Clearly he was the headliner and Hembree the throw-in. Escobar also pitched all of 2 innings for the Sox and 25 for his career. Not nearly as capable as the throw-in from that trade...

[dgalehouse]

No stat or system is perfect. ERA in a small sample size is not reliable . But for a career stat , ERA will give you a very good idea of a pitcher's effectiveness.

[jad]

Workman has some value, but the problem this years is GMs might be hesitant with rental players knowing there’s always the chance the postseason is just cancelled. Look how badly the Mookie trade almost worked out for the Dodgers. In April and May, there was no season in sight, and they had no extension in place. Imagine if that situation continued.

 

Pivetta is a gamble. But he was always a guy whose stuff was just flat out good. He might not pan out, but I don’t think he’s any bigger of a gamble than any minor leaguer that could have been acquired for Workman. Maybe Seabold will be the better pitcher, but no one knows whether or not that will happen. Remember Edwin Escobar? He was acquired with Hembree in the Peavy trade. And Escobar was supposedly the better prospect, even getting ranked by BA. Clearly he was the headliner and Hembree the throw-in. Escobar also pitched all of 2 innings for the Sox and 25 for his career. Not nearly as capable as the throw-in from that trade...

 

Had that situation continued, the RS would have sucked one fewer years than they will.

[Bellhorn04]

I would be inclined not to move him. Again, I am one who thinks we'll be competitive next year.

 

I'm with you 100%.

 

Also, Perez was one of Bloom's signings, and I think he might be inclined to like him.

[Kimmi]

No hugs in the COVID era.

 

I am a hugger.

 

Virtual hugs to all!

[Kimmi]

I'm with you 100%.

 

Also, Perez was one of Bloom's signings, and I think he might be inclined to like him.

 

Good point about Perez being a Bloom signing.

 

I just can't see Henry blowing the whole team up and punting next season. He and Bloom will try to stay competitive while building at the same time. They have to keep some of these fairly inexpensive guys. It would have to be a clear win in the trade to move someone like Perez.

[mvp 78]

Good point about Perez being a Bloom signing.

 

I just can't see Henry blowing the whole team up and punting next season. He and Bloom will try to stay competitive while building at the same time. They have to keep some of these fairly inexpensive guys. It would have to be a clear win in the trade to move someone like Perez.

 

I feel like you can grab FA's like Perez any offseason. I don't see a reason to keep him around.