2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[Elktonnick]

But what can they say at these things that will satisfy people?

 

For example, maybe the real reason they fired DD was that he had become an insufferable *******. Is that what they should have told the press - the truth?

 

Crisis management pr is not about merely satisfying the press but getting on top of the story and having a consistent message. The minute the story broke for example they should have had a statement ready. Frankly they haven't handled this mess badly from a PR point of view compared to the other messes they have had. Of course we do not know what they know. I thought Chaim did a good job. I would encourage him to do more press availability. I think he presents a good face to the organization.

[Slasher9]

Springer hammering Ottavino’s slider and Altuve walking off a Chapman slider looks really fishy right now

 

i'll repeat this since you decided to ignore it earlier:

jacksonianmarch - were you "ripped apeshit" when giambi's 2 wallscraper HR's in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS helped push a Boston series clinching win into extra innings? if not - shut the f*** up about altuve crushing that dinger in 17...

 

take your bitching about yankees getting jobbed to a f***ing yankees site

[mvp 78]

i'll repeat this since you decided to ignore it earlier:

jacksonianmarch - were you "ripped apeshit" when giambi's 2 wallscraper HR's in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS helped push a Boston series clinching win into extra innings? if not - shut the f*** up about altuve crushing that dinger in 17...

 

take your bitching about yankees getting jobbed to a f***ing yankees site

 

Ah, but were you ripshit when Ortiz and Manny blah blah blah blah blah blah?

 

 

 

There, I did a Yankees fan post so nobody else has to. You're welcome.

[jacksonianmarch]

i'll repeat this since you decided to ignore it earlier:

jacksonianmarch - were you "ripped apeshit" when giambi's 2 wallscraper HR's in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS helped push a Boston series clinching win into extra innings? if not - shut the f*** up about altuve crushing that dinger in 17...

 

take your bitching about yankees getting jobbed to a f***ing yankees site

 

Typical. I was just as upset about Ortiz and Manny dropping bombs in the postseason as you were about Giambi. A cheat is a cheat

[mvp 78]

Ah, but were you ripshit when Ortiz and Manny blah blah blah blah blah blah?

 

 

 

There, I did a Yankees fan post so nobody else has to. You're welcome.

 

Typical. I was just as upset about Ortiz and Manny dropping bombs in the postseason as you were about Giambi. A cheat is a cheat

 

See? I did a thing!

[notin]

See? I did a thing!

 

 

I see you can do a Yankee fan. Now do Jack Nicholson!

[fxkatt]

The more I learn about this the more I'm sure most of the league has been doing the same for some time. In sum, it's being done not to "gain an advantage," but to neutralize the other team's advantage. So, really what it all comes down to is no different than the steroid period discussion... a few players, a few teams get picked off as whipping boys and object lessons while the League decides what it can do, if it really wants to, about the issue and the cheating. (this said, Houston's banging on trash cans was a bit over the top)

[mvp 78]

I see you can do a Yankee fan. Now do Jack Nicholson!

 

Hey everybody, I'm Jack Nicholson. You may remember me from such films as Wolf, Mars Attacks and Witches of Eastwick!

[notin]

Hey everybody, I'm Jack Nicholson. You may remember me from such films as Wolf, Mars Attacks and Witches of Eastwick!

 

 

Wow! Spot on. I’ve heard him say that so many times...

[Carpin]

The more I learn about this the more I'm sure most of the league has been doing the same for some time. In sum, it's being done not to "gain an advantage," but to neutralize the other team's advantage. So, really what it all comes down to is no different than the steroid period discussion... a few players, a few teams get picked off as whipping boys and object lessons while the League decides what it can do, if it really wants to, about the issue and the cheating. (this said, Houston's banging on trash cans was a bit over the top)

 

Exactly, no different than other ways of cheating, who was first? we'll never know

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I still don't get how a pitcher can intentionally throw a lethal weapon at a batter's head and only get a five-day suspension, but if players steal signs -- which the MLB says is legal, except on video -- the team's management gets at least a year-long suspension and fired.

 

In his attempt to clean up his sport, Manfred's overreactive sentences have unfortunately given baseball too much negative publicity. I find it odd that the three baseball managers he got rid of are still loved and respected by players and peers (and in the Sox' case, owners) -- am I the only one who finds this reaction at least curious? Shouldn't this trio of bad guys be scorned throughout baseball by more than just some professional and amateur writers who apparently have never made mistakes before in their lives? I'm ignoring CC Sabathia, whose own team is also under suspicion.

 

Taking away top draft picks would've been punishment enough to ensure this stuff ended. But now Manfred's entertainment product is without three personalities who were popular within the industry.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yanks and Sox were either the first or just the first caught symptom of a broader disease when they were caught with iwatch gate. The Yanks and Sox stopped until Cora came in. MLB took a hard line after the Sox and Yanks game with the watch. They fined the Yanks and Sox, made all managers sign affidavits of awareness and threatened massive penalties for further transgressions. The slate was wiped clean during 2017. Those who did it afterwards were to be soundly punished. With the Astros continuing it the rest of the year and into the POs and the Sox doing it in 2018, the punishment has been severe.

 

Listen, Manfred doesn’t want this to be a witch hunt. If a Yankee comes out and says that the Yanks were doing this, then he has to investigate. He isn't going to investigate allegations from opponents without some concrete evidence. The whole ball of wax started to melt with Fiers. Someone else snitched on the Sox. If any other teams did it and nobody snitched, then they aren’t getting caught. Manfred wants this to go away

[mvp 78]

@SmittyOnMLB

Xander Bogaerts: Boston Red Sox’s 2018 World Series title ‘absolutely not’ tainted by MLB investigation; ‘To me, 2018 was a special year’

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yanks and Sox were either the first or just the first caught symptom of a broader disease when they were caught with iwatch gate. The Yanks and Sox stopped until Cora came in. MLB took a hard line after the Sox and Yanks game with the watch. They fined the Yanks and Sox, made all managers sign affidavits of awareness and threatened massive penalties for further transgressions. The slate was wiped clean during 2017. Those who did it afterwards were to be soundly punished. With the Astros continuing it the rest of the year and into the POs and the Sox doing it in 2018, the punishment has been severe.

 

Listen, Manfred doesn’t want this to be a witch hunt. If a Yankee comes out and says that the Yanks were doing this, then he has to investigate. He isn't going to investigate allegations from opponents without some concrete evidence. The whole ball of wax started to melt with Fiers. Someone else snitched on the Sox. If any other teams did it and nobody snitched, then they aren’t getting caught. Manfred wants this to go away

 

I totally agree. But by not penalizing players, he's inviting problems this year from pitchers -- they're the ones who're really pissed. Be prepared for headhunters, beanball wars, ejections, more suspensions, and maybe some unfortunate injuries (usually not so much from guys hit by pitches, but peace-keepers trying to break up fights). The Astros better be prepared to come to the plate wearing full medieval armor...

[Slasher9]

The Yanks and Sox stopped until Cora came in.

 

hahahahaah. hahahahahahaha.

and you know this.....how?

[Slasher9]

 

There, I did a Yankees fan post so nobody else has to. You're welcome.

 

well done. trap sprung.

[mvp 78]

Steroids. Greenies. Andro. HGH. Milkshakes. Vitamins (Flintstone or otherwise). Back acne. Betting. Spitballs. Pine tar. Corked bats. Sandpaper. Cameras. Buzzers. Trash cans. And I'm sure I've forgotten some. Is there anyone in baseball who DIDN'T cheat?

[mvp 78]

well done. trap sprung.

 

It wasn't a trap, it was stockholm syndrome.

[jad]

Steroids. Greenies. Andro. HGH. Milkshakes. Vitamins (Flintstone or otherwise). Back acne. Betting. Spitballs. Pine tar. Corked bats. Sandpaper. Cameras. Buzzers. Trash cans. And I'm sure I've forgotten some. Is there anyone in baseball who DIDN'T cheat?

 

Exactly. What amazes me is the feigned shock of players, fans, and writers. In sports, players cheat. They do. And anyone who has played sports on any level has experienced this, whether it's football, baseball, golf, tennis, cards, or tiddly-winks. What you learn to do is to neutralize it in some way. Are baseball players helpless, morally-pure infants? The last thing a boxing referee says before the fight is "Protect yourself at all times." Enough of this sanctimonious hand-wringing.

[oldtimer]

The Astros were accused of mounting a camera to look in on the catcher and steal signs real time and then relay the information to the hitter real time.

 

I am not certain of the accusation against the Red Sox since nothing specific has been recounted. The basic information is one or several players would go to the replay room to see what pitches were being called and to learn what the signs were. Was it when a htter got to second that they could use the information to relay to the batter during an at bat? If so, how much different is that than hitters on second stealing signs while there (which is legal)? I would imagine most teams would study replay footage to learn about signs but also pitcher tendencies. To me to counter the stealing, the teams need to switch signs regularly to defeat this kind of sign stealing. I'm saying, the devil is in the details.

[jad]

The Astros were accused of mounting a camera to look in on the catcher and steal signs real time and then relay the information to the hitter real time.

 

I am not certain of the accusation against the Red Sox since nothing specific has been recounted. The basic information is one or several players would go to the replay room to see what pitches were being called and to learn what the signs were. Was it when a htter got to second that they could use the information to relay to the batter during an at bat? If so, how much different is that than hitters on second stealing signs while there (which is legal)? I would imagine most teams would study replay footage to learn about signs but also pitcher tendencies. To me to counter the stealing, the teams need to switch signs regularly to defeat this kind of sign stealing. I'm saying, the devil is in the details.

 

Of course. That''s what Woods claims to have done at LA. Were other pitchers too stupid, proud, or naive to do the same?

 

Just out of curiosity: show of hands. Who of you who has played sports: (1) has NEVER cheated. (2) has NEVER played opponents who cheat.

[moonslav59]

Of course. That''s what Woods claims to have done at LA. Were other pitchers too stupid, proud, or naive to do the same?

 

Just out of curiosity: show of hands. Who of you who has played sports: (1) has NEVER cheated. (2) has NEVER played opponents who cheat.

 

My own wife cheats at tennis against me.

[jacksonianmarch]

I can honestly say I played baseball at a pretty high level in college, went to two college WS, and I never cheated in baseball. Now, have I cheated in monopoly, pick up basketball, pick up football, etc. of course I did. We all have at some point. But organized sports with high stakes competition “should” be free of cheating. They never will be, but they should be.

 

Jack McDowell just came out with an accusation that Tony LaRussa had a camera pointed at the catcher in the 80s and had a light in CF that was switched on and off by the prior games starter to tell the hitters what was coming. More is due to come out....

[jung]

I totally agree. But by not penalizing players, he's inviting problems this year from pitchers -- they're the ones who're really pissed. Be prepared for headhunters, beanball wars, ejections, more suspensions, and maybe some unfortunate injuries (usually not so much from guys hit by pitches, but peace-keepers trying to break up fights). The Astros better be prepared to come to the plate wearing full medieval armor...

 

I agree....Its the pitchers that have taken it on the chin for this whole mess, the rocket ship baseball, electronic sign stealing, they are taking it right in the pocketbook. Don't get me wrong. No love lost for pitchers. I think Jacko was a pitcher (he can correct me). But I was always a hitter. Never even could envision crawling into the skin or the head of a pitcher. But this is nuts and they are gonna' revolt at some point. Maybe even this year unless they see a "concerted" effort to get on top of this.

 

Honestly, I don't see it happening. I have little faith as from what I can tell, Manfred is already no longer investigating and is on to framing this so that a few guys get thrown under the bus, Ownership remains completely guiltless and everybody goes their merry way. But I don't think the pitchers are going to have much more patience with this nonsense.

 

If it were some other position player being abused, maybe I could see it. But even though I have no love lost for pitchers, I respect them immensely. Every single thing in baseball starts with the ball in the pitcher's hand and they are out their laying down tracks inning after inning, game after game. Most of the rest of us are standing around chewing on our gloves waiting to get up to the plate again.

 

No, I don't think all teams or doing it. But knock me over with a feather if its not half the teams anyway. It really is a matter of who you hire to Manage your team and I simply do not buy the idea that upper management of baseball teams do not know who they are hiring when they hire them. Just too much crap going on and in their positions if they don't know what is happening its because they have their heads firmly lodged up their own asses.

Edited January 17, 2020 by jung

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree....Its the pitchers that have taken it on the chin for this whole mess, the rocket ship baseball, electronic sign stealing, they are taking it right in the pocketbook. Don't get me wrong. No love lost for pitchers. I think Jacko was a pitcher (he can correct me). But I was always a hitter. Never even could envision crawling into the skin or the head of a pitcher. But this is nuts and they are gonna' revolt at some point. Maybe even this year unless they see a "concerted" effort to get on top of this.

 

Honestly, I don't see it happening. I have little faith as from what I can tell, Manfred is already no longer investigating and is on to framing this so that a few guys get thrown under the bus, Ownership remains completely guiltless and everybody goes their merry way. But I don't think the pitchers are going to have much more patience with this nonsense.

 

No, I don't think all teams or doing it. But knock me over with a feather if its not half the teams anyway. It really is a matter of who you hire to Manage your team and I simply do not buy the idea that upper management of baseball teams do not know who they are hiring when they hire them. Just too much crap going on and in their positions if they don't know what is happening its because they have their heads firmly lodged up their own asses.

 

I was a pitcher and a 1b. If I knew a batter was cheating I’d hit him square in the head. I haven’t played competitively beyond old man baseball leagues in almost 20 years, but head shots were entirely within the arsenal. I head hunted before and if a team was cheating, I’d have done it again. I’d call my catcher out, have him put down a 2 and then throw as hard as I could up and in. He’d be leaning out over the plate (if he was a RHH) expecting the ball to break away and I’d surprise him.

 

I was hit in the head during a game and the next time I pitched to the pitcher who hit me, I went up and in, curve away, up and in, curve away and struck him out. But only because I put the fear of god in him. They allowed a lot more back then. Now, if a kid even threatens a snowflake with a HBP, you’d get criminal charges!

[jung]

If it were some other position player being abused, maybe I could see it. But even though I have no love lost for pitchers, I respect them immensely. Every single thing in baseball starts with the ball in the pitcher's hand and they are out their laying down tracks inning after inning, game after game. Most of the rest of us are standing around chewing on our gloves waiting to get up to the plate again.

 

Not only is the above categorically true from my earlier post, the effort pitchers put in to perfect their game is ungodly. The whole game utterly falls apart without pitchers. The rest of us are pretty replaceable and movable around the game. NOT PITCHERS. There is no way the professional game and MLB reaches the heights that those of us that watch in amazement appreciate without pitchers doing what pitchers do. You actually have to get some steel in your spine just to stand in against really really good pitching.... in the old days anyway.

 

I think I have told the story here of having been able to watch Nolan Ryan working out one year. My eyes bugged out of my head and I was a pretty courageous hitter. But how hitters stood in against that guy when he was coming at you with a baseball in his hand is almost beyond comprehension. Standing very close to the mound and then standing close to home plate when he started cutting it loose, I think my eyes stayed bugged out of my head for the rest of the day. Standing close to the mound all you saw was this big giant can of a rear end on a coil spring and all that energy generated toward home plate. It was like a bomb going off on the mound every pitch.

 

Standing near the plate but not in the batters box you got the impression that you just cannot even see that thing when Ryan cut it loose. That said having stood in against some pretty good pitchers in my day, when you are actually in the box, your blood is up, adrenaline is coursing through your veins and the game slows down. I actually think its the only way to hit real competitive pitching. Its the only way I could hit because I could not afford to let a FB opportunity go by. I had to stand in. I was meat to a good breaking pitch unless it was flat and hung right in my eyes.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not only is the above categorically true from my earlier post, the effort pitchers put in to perfect their game is ungodly. The whole game utterly falls apart without pitchers. The rest of us are pretty replaceable and movable around the game. NOT PITCHERS. There is no way the professional game and MLB reaches the heights that those of us that watch in amazement appreciate without pitchers doing what pitchers do. You actually have to get some steel in your spine just to stand in against really really good pitching.... in the old days anyway.

 

I think I have told the story here of having been able to watch Nolan Ryan working out one year. My eyes bugged out of my head and I was a pretty courageous hitter. But how hitters stood in against that guy when he was coming at you with a baseball in his hand is almost beyond comprehension. Standing very close to the mound and then standing close to home plate when he started cutting it loose, I think my eyes stayed bugged out of my head for the rest of the day. Standing close to the mound all you saw was this big giant can of a rear end on a coil spring and all that energy generated toward home plate. It was like a bomb going off on the mound every pitch.

 

Standing near the plate but not in the batters box you got the impression that you just cannot even see that thing when Ryan cut it loose. That said having stood in against some pretty good pitchers in my day, when you are actually in the box, your blood is up, adrenaline is coursing through your veins and the game slows down. I actually think its the only way to hit real competitive pitching. Its the only way I could hit because I could not afford to let a FB opportunity go by. I had to stand in. I was meat to a good breaking pitch unless it was flat and hung right in my eyes.

 

It was always fun to face professional level pitching. I was done in by the slider as a hitter and my location as a pitcher. I could get around on any fastball 95 or less and I could see the curve out of the hand. But a slider or cutter was a fricken enigma to me. Couldn’t see it out of the hand and by the time word got around the collegiate league I was in, I was meat. Fastballs up and out of the zone I’d chase and then the slider anywhere and I’d miss it. Hardest FB I ever “saw” was clocked at 98. I quote that because you don’t really see them. They’re a buzz and a pop. Sat on his loopy curve though and took him deep!

[jung]

Slider killed me too. Embarrassed me. I was often struck out at Home Plate with the bat on my shoulder and way too late I am saying to myself, "Yup that was a slider" because that was all I could do with it. "Yup....that was a slider." But I literally could not get the bat off my shoulder. I was frozen there at Home Plate looking like an idiot.

[Bellhorn04]

Tom Verducci:

 

The Houston Astros (and the many other clubs that weren’t outed by an old teammate) proved you cannot trust teams to deploy rapidly emerging technology through only responsible means.

[Tedballgame]

Lol, you’re so predictable. Cashman and Boone aren’t stepping down because the Sox and Yankees were both warned and fined in 2017 for using media in the dugout. After that, the Yanks have not violated the rule of cheating and using the replay system IN GAME. The Sox, based on insider reports, have violated that rule and cheated. So the Sox will pay the price and their rebuild will be hindered while the Yanks main competitor, Houston, in the AL just got smacked. Works out swimmingly for me. But keep toting the narrative that everyone is cheating or that the pinstripes are just as wrong if it makes you feel better. Maybe that’ll diminish the sting of not being relevant for the next three seasons

 

You have NO clue what the Yankees did or didn't do! You have No clue what the Red Sox did or didn't do. Stop talking out of your A**!