2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[notin]

I think the timing was related to the cheating scandal unfolding. It is highly unusual to fire a GM mid season. There was something else going on. JH knew he had hired a wheeler dealer and he had just won 3 divisions in a row, including a World Championship. I don’t think one off year (not a last place year — a staple of Ben Cher) would have prompted a precipitous firing. I’ll have to agree to disagree on this as your version doesn’t fit for me.

 

I think the scandal fits, just not in the "harmonious protection" aspect. If DD was fired to save him from this stigma as a favor from Henry for years of service, why was he trashed on his way out the door?

 

Now, Red Sox Tradition might be a acceptable answer here. But beyond that, that part didn't fit...

[a700hitter]

My prediction is that the sign stealing scandal is far from over, and it's going to drag other teams in and get very dirty by the time it's over.

Mets and Beltran?

[Carpin]

Mets and Beltran?

 

They said that players will not be punished, Beltran was a player back in 2017

[Bellhorn04]

Mets and Beltran?

 

Well, maybe this is a wishful anti-Yankee scenario, but there are some interesting things about Beltran.

 

-Although not punished for it, he's mentioned in the report about the Astros.

-The Yankees hired him in Dec/18 as a 'special adviser'.

-After a series with the Yankees in 2019, maybe the London series, Cora made some slightly strange comments about Beltran helping the Yankees a lot with 'details'.

 

Some commentators like Bradford are also suggesting that MLB knew more about what was going on than they're saying, based on some preventative measures they instituted.

[Red Foreman]

The Red Sox were NOT stealing signs and signaling anyone real time. Have you not read what they did?

[harmony]

The Red Sox were NOT stealing signs and signaling anyone real time. Have you not read what they did?

We await the MLB report on the Red Sox.

[jung]

My prediction is that the sign stealing scandal is far from over, and it's going to drag other teams in and get very dirty by the time it's over.

 

I completely agree here. The League hit Championship teams first because they cheated and won the big prize. But IMO this is far from over.

[jung]

The Red Sox were NOT stealing signs and signaling anyone real time. Have you not read what they did?

 

Don't think that argument is going to buy us anything as Cora is identified as the architect in Houston and will probably where that in Boston as well.

[Red Foreman]

We await the MLB report on the Red Sox.

 

 

I agree but Jacksoniain is saying that the Sox were relaying real time info to runners on second. Every article I have read said the Sox relayed the info in the dugout in the event a batter reached second. If a new pitcher entered the game or they switched up signs the info was useless.

[harmony]

I agree but Jacksoniain is saying that the Sox were relaying real time info to runners on second. Every article I have read said the Sox relayed the info in the dugout in the event a batter reached second. If a new pitcher entered the game or they switched up signs the info was useless.

The MLB investigation continues, according to the baseball commissioner, who wrote: "I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager."

 

https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf

[moonslav59]

The MLB investigation continues, according to the baseball commissioner, who wrote: "I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager."

 

https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf

 

While I'm certain Cora will be hit hard, the key word in this quote is "allegations," so the fate of penalties against the Sox is still somewhat in question, although it looks pretty bad on the surface.

[jacksonianmarch]

Let’s be honest, Cora is done for 2020. Hinch got a year even though he wasn’t the architect and didn’t “condone” it. Cora was the architect for both teams. Cora’s punishment will be the most severe. The only question is, how hard will the Red Sox organization be hit. Will they be hit harder since they were involved in the initial event that caused MLB to investigate both the Sox and the Yanks? Will they be hit less as the information wasn’t as relevant since it was only with runners on 2nd?

[Elktonnick]

Let’s be honest, Cora is done for 2020. Hinch got a year even though he wasn’t the architect and didn’t “condone” it. Cora was the architect for both teams. Cora’s punishment will be the most severe. The only question is, how hard will the Red Sox organization be hit. Will they be hit harder since they were involved in the initial event that caused MLB to investigate both the Sox and the Yanks? Will they be hit less as the information wasn’t as relevant since it was only with runners on 2nd?

 

The unanswered questions for Boston is who in the FO knew. How far up in the hierarchy did it go? Did Kennedy, Werner or Henry know and or were they in a position to stop it? If they knew and tacitly condoned it, then the punishments could rock professional sports.

 

So the nitpicking about it wasn"t as bad as Houston really isn't germaine. It was still illegal and cheating. The questions that MLB are concerned about are: Who knew and What did they do to stop it?

[jacksonianmarch]

It was still illegal. It was still cheating. And the Sox were the source case (with the Yanks) that caused MLB to warn all clubs. If anyone knew above Cora, then they’re done. The GM position doesn’t apply with DD gone, but if precedent shows anything, DD’s gonna be hit with a “show cause” penalty like Taubman was. Likelihood is DD will retire from baseball entirely.

[Bellhorn04]

The unanswered questions for Boston is who in the FO knew. How far up in the hierarchy did it go? Did Kennedy, Werner or Henry know and or were they in a position to stop it? If they knew and tacitly condoned it, then the punishments could rock professional sports.

 

So the nitpicking about it wasn"t as bad as Houston really isn't germaine. It was still illegal and cheating. The questions that MLB are concerned about are: Who knew and What did they do to stop it?

 

MLB should also be damn concerned that other teams were doing it.

 

The only reason Houston and Boston have been investigated is that squealers stepped forth.

 

Is Manfred crossing his fingers hoping no more squealers emerge?

[jacksonianmarch]

MLB should also be damn concerned that other teams were doing it.

 

The only reason Houston and Boston have been investigated is that squealers stepped forth.

 

Is Manfred crossing his fingers hoping no more squealers emerge?

 

This is not really true. Players wouldn’t be coming out against this if every team did it. They’d be shooting them selves in the foot if their current club did it too

[moonslav59]

Let’s be honest, Cora is done for 2020. Hinch got a year even though he wasn’t the architect and didn’t “condone” it. Cora was the architect for both teams. Cora’s punishment will be the most severe. The only question is, how hard will the Red Sox organization be hit. Will they be hit harder since they were involved in the initial event that caused MLB to investigate both the Sox and the Yanks? Will they be hit less as the information wasn’t as relevant since it was only with runners on 2nd?

 

By not stopping it, Hinch "condoned it." He's the manager, and he knew it was going on.

 

What the Sox have done or not done is still be investigated. So far, we only have allegations.

 

It does not look good, but we don't know exactly (proven) what the Sox did. Like the Astros, I doubt the higher ups would know, or they shielded themselves sufficiently, as they nearly always do.

 

The second offense does carry a lot of weight, but it also depends on how much they can prove and just how bad it was.

 

If, for example, it's way lessof an infraction than the Astros situation was, does the fact that it was a second offense make the punishment similar? There's a lot that is hard to know, right now, but things look real bad for Cora. The Sox situation is still up in the air, but it looks like it's heading for a crash.

[OH FOY]

Carlos Beltran has a lot more to do with this then we realize. And he's going scott free.

[Elktonnick]

It was still illegal. It was still cheating. And the Sox were the source case (with the Yanks) that caused MLB to warm all clubs

 

Here is something to ponder: Will Dave Dombrowski throw Red Sox ownership under the bus. If he is interviewed and one assumes he would be and he implicates ownership then the roof really does cave in now doesn't it?

[Bellhorn04]

Carlos Beltran has a lot more to do with this then we realize. And he's going scott free.

 

He lied his ass off with his original denials, that much is indisputable.

[moonslav59]

MLB should also be damn concerned that other teams were doing it.

 

The only reason Houston and Boston have been investigated is that squealers stepped forth.

 

Is Manfred crossing his fingers hoping no more squealers emerge?

 

People telling on themselves and making themselves look like cheaters is not something I expect will happen, often, but when players move from one club to another, which happens more often than the old days, you know they tell their new team what their old team is doing (illegally) to try and beat them.

 

Those who get caught are the ones that do much or most of the "squealing."

[Bellhorn04]

People telling on themselves and making themselves look like cheaters is not something I expect will happen, often, but when players move from one club to another, which happens more often than the old days, you know they tell their new team what their old team is doing (illegally) to try and beat them.

 

Those who get caught are the ones that do much or most of the "squealing."

 

Fiers is the only identified squealer at this point. I imagine it was a very difficult thing for him to do.

[Slasher9]

Hinch took a baseball bat to the monitor on 2 different occasions to let his players know he was not in favor of the elctronic sign stealing and he still got a 1 year ban and fired by the owner.

WTF was apparently the architect of both the Houston scheme and the Red Sox scheme. to think he wont be more severely punished by Manfred is illogical.

As first time sign stealers via electronic means the Houston Astros lost 4 draft picks and were fined $5MM.

the Red Sox were reprimanded for #watchgate/#pedroiagate so this is there 2nd violation of cheating via electronic means. to think the red sox wont be more severly punished by Manfred is illogical.

[Bellhorn04]

Hinch took a baseball bat to the monitor on 2 different occasions to let his players know he was not in favor of the elctronic sign stealing and he still got a 1 year ban and fired by the owner.

WTF was apparently the architect of both the Houston scheme and the Red Sox scheme. to think he wont be more severely punished by Manfred is illogical.

As first time sign stealers via electronic means the Houston Astros lost 4 draft picks and were fined $5MM.

the Red Sox were reprimanded for #watchgate/#pedroiagate so this is there 2nd violation of cheating via electronic means. to think the red sox wont be more severly punished by Manfred is illogical.

 

Agree on Cora, disagree on Red Sox. Their cheating methods were not as extreme as the Astros based on what we know. The watch was kind of a joke in fact, compared to the later stuff.

[Elktonnick]

Agree on Cora, disagree on Red Sox. Their cheating methods were not as extreme as the Astros based on what we know. The watch was kind of a joke in fact, compared to the later stuff.

 

What is there about cheating that makes you think that this merits less punishment. Cheating is cheating.

[Slasher9]

Agree on Cora, disagree on Red Sox. Their cheating methods were not as extreme as the Astros based on what we know. The watch was kind of a joke in fact, compared to the later stuff.

 

but 99% of the population doesnt know or care that there is a difference.

it is still a violation of the mandate/rule which was no stealing signs via electronic means. it doesnt matter that it apparently only worked for the Red Sox with a runner on 2nd base. the team was still engaged in cheating via electronic means.

if you blow a .1 you still get arrested and charged the same as if you blow a .2.....

[jung]

IMO there is no "dirty by degrees" in using electronics to cheat. Electronics are an overlay on the game. They are not THE GAME though computer stat geeks would make you think they are and infinite granularity in stats via database has literally taken over and IMO corrupted the game. The cheating aspect is just the most despicable aspect of it.

 

Frankly I want this replay crap out of the control of the teams. I don't give a s*** about replay. It is a FAILED implementation in baseball IMO and yet has all these hidden traps buried within in. Get it out. Let the league have total control of the replay process and only replay questionable catches, HR's, plays at the plate. I don't want to see another superslomo of said runner sliding across said base with said fielder holding the tag on hoping said runner losing contact for a single nanosecond yielding an out call. Sorry.....not baseball! And its boring and time consuming.

 

Let the Managers argue calls again. What a breath of fresh air that would be over watching them hold up their hands to tell the field umps that they were still pondering a replay.

Edited January 14, 2020 by jung

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This is not really true. Players wouldn’t be coming out against this if every team did it. They’d be shooting them selves in the foot if their current club did it too

 

I totally disagree. Astros in the investigation reported they know of at least eight more teams involved in the same types of tech-based subterfuge. We can assume those are mostly American League teams... are we that naive to think players and clubs in the NL aren't privy to or don't participate in the same culture and methods?

 

The Astros and Red Sox won, so of course they're targets of whistle-blowers; nobody cares about how the Orioles or Marlins tried to get an edge.

 

They all honor their oaths of Omerta until after the conquests -- and then we notice that only (perhaps resentful) EX-employees start squealing.

 

I've downplayed this sign-stealing "scandal" from the beginning, because players and teams will always try to get an edge on competition. I can't downplay the consequences, but the "integrity" of the game isn't as much at stake as the pace of the game because of all this crap.

[Bellhorn04]

What is there about cheating that makes you think that this merits less punishment. Cheating is cheating.

 

Here's the thing: when the Sox got caught with the watch, Manfred said there would be punishment the next time.

 

You don't double up and say, okay, now I'm going to punish you for the first time too.

 

A warning is a warning.

 

We'll see what he does.

[Elktonnick]

Here's the thing: when the Sox got caught with the watch, Manfred said there would be punishment the next time.

 

You don't double up and say, okay, now I'm going to punish you for the first time too.

 

A warning is a warning.

 

We'll see what he does.

 

And the penalty for ignoring such a warning is normally more severe than that for a first time offender.