2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[jacksonianmarch]

That’s the thing. One confidential witness and you think it’s someone with sour grapes. Three is a lot. And if their testimony is corroborating, then that’s damning.

 

Listen, maybe Beltran will and maybe he ends up taking down other teams like the Yanks, but the Yanks aren’t under investigation here. The Sox are. So any speculation otherwise is just sour grapes from Sox fans. Also, Beltran wasn’t a coach and didn’t have a clubhouse presence, so the likelihood that he set something up in his management role is grasping at straws. Now, if he was a bench coach, then different story, but he wasnt

[Bellhorn04]

This thing could easily go down the same path as steroids, with congressional hearings, testimonies under oath. There's some chatter about that already.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s the thing. One confidential witness and you think it’s someone with sour grapes. Three is a lot. And if their testimony is corroborating, then that’s damning.

 

Listen, maybe Beltran will and maybe he ends up taking down other teams like the Yanks, but the Yanks aren’t under investigation here. The Sox are. So any speculation otherwise is just sour grapes from Sox fans. Also, Beltran wasn’t a coach and didn’t have a clubhouse presence, so the likelihood that he set something up in his management role is grasping at straws. Now, if he was a bench coach, then different story, but he wasnt

 

After the Yankees scored 29 runs off Sox pitching in 2 games in London, the main thing Cora talked about was how valuable Beltran was. That raised eyebrows even at the time.

 

Beltran was clearly one of the architects in the Houston scheme. The Yankees hired him as a special adviser. In 2019 their offense had an amazing year despite all the injuries.

 

It's not just grasping at straws.

[mvp 78]

This thing could easily go down the same path as steroids, with congressional hearings, testimonies under oath. There's some chatter about that already.

 

Yuck. Just rip the bandaid off.

[notin]

That’s the thing. One confidential witness and you think it’s someone with sour grapes. Three is a lot. And if their testimony is corroborating, then that’s damning.

 

Listen, maybe Beltran will and maybe he ends up taking down other teams like the Yanks, but the Yanks aren’t under investigation here. The Sox are. So any speculation otherwise is just sour grapes from Sox fans. Also, Beltran wasn’t a coach and didn’t have a clubhouse presence, so the likelihood that he set something up in his management role is grasping at straws. Now, if he was a bench coach, then different story, but he wasnt

 

Well, again, when you have “anonymous sources”, you can cite any number of them without question. At least Fiers went public with his own name.

 

For example, I have FOUR “anonymous sources” that say the Yankees used a similar scheme. Couple that with their previous punishment and that they employed a previous cheater, and throw the data around, the Cora implication and London games, things look just as bad for the Yankees. Maybe worse.

 

And the whole “bench coach” thing is grasping at straws. Did Beltran ever attend a team meeting? That’s all he needed to explain the scheme.

Edited January 24, 2020 by notin

[jung]

No statistic can show someone is cheating using electronic means. But the three people who ratted the Sox our are all they’re gonna need. The Sox are gonna get crushed in this one

 

If MLB were actually investigating instead of looking for a few scapegoats and a trap door for everybody else, we might have a clearer view of what might happen here.

[mvp 78]

If MLB were actually investigating instead of looking for a few scapegoats and a trap door for everybody else, we might have a clearer view of what might happen here.

 

Honestly, we don't actually know what they are up to right now.

[jung]

Honestly, we don't actually know what they are up to right now.

 

Just looking at the fiasco in Houston where they OBVIOUSLY didn't actually investigate as a roadmap to Boston.

 

A report is not supposed to be a compilation of unsupported opinions from the league. A report is supposed to be a REPORT!

 

I will agree to this extent. We don't know how the fiasco that has developed out of the "report" in Houston will effect how MLB will try to tailor the narrative in Boston. I have no clue if that mess in Houston helps the Sox or hurts them. I do know the league is doing far too much shaping of narratives and far too little investigating.

Edited January 24, 2020 by jung

[mvp 78]

Just looking at the fiasco in Houston where they OBVIOUSLY didn't actually investigate as a roadmap to Boston.

 

A report is not supposed to be a compilation of unsupported opinions from the league. A report is supposed to be a REPORT!

 

I will agree to this extent. We don't know how the fiasco that has developed out of the "report" in Houston will effect how MLB will try to tailor the narrative in Boston. I have no clue if that mess in Houston helps the Sox or hurts them. I do know the league is doing far too much shaping of narratives and far too little investigating.

 

If they do too much investigating, they'll find out the nefarious s*** other teams were also doing. They don't want that.

[jung]

If they do too much investigating, they'll find out the nefarious s*** other teams were also doing. They don't want that.

 

A-G-R-E-E-D .....in spades.

 

But this is how they end up solving nothing and creating a cluster. First MLB tries to shape a narrative in Houston. Then the Houston owner piles on and shapes his narrative and then Agents like Boris say "OH OK....you boys want to shape your narrative...now we will shape ours".

 

And,

 

MLB is going to have to do something real to stop this nonsense of using in game real time video and electronics to cheat. My preference, the teams no longer get real time, in game video for ANYTHING. Take it away. No proprietary cameras, no access to league and network feeds other than what they can see on the big board and deal with the visual signaling in some way. Either stop it completely or fuzz up the view of the catcher's hand so that nobody sees the signs anymore on the one available feed including us at home watching. Hate to see it go, but this is RIDICULOUS.

[mvp 78]

A-G-R-E-E-D .....in spades.

 

But this is how they end up solving nothing and creating a cluster. First MLB tries to shape a narrative in Houston. Then the Houston owner piles on and shapes his narrative and then Agents like Boris say "OH OK....you boys want to shape your narrative...now we will shape ours".

 

And,

 

MLB is going to have to do something real to stop this nonsense of using in game real time video and electronics to cheat. My preference, the teams no longer get real time, in game video for ANYTHING. Take it away. No proprietary cameras, no access to league and network feeds other than what they can see on the big board and deal with the visual signaling in some way. Either stop it completely or fuzz up the view of the catcher's hand so that nobody sees the signs anymore on the one available feed including us at home watching. Hate to see it go, but this is RIDICULOUS.

Not sure how they'd take it away, but I'm into it.

[jad]

I suppose congressional hearings are in the works, as there is really nothing pressing facing this country right now. A trillion or two in debt, war, billionaires presiding over poverty, 30-50 thousand gun deaths, mass incarcerations-- all that can surely wait. Besides, the LA city council wants its joint parade (oops, wrong word) with UCF.

[mvp 78]

I suppose congressional hearings are in the works, as there is really nothing pressing facing this country right now. A trillion or two in debt, war, billionaires presiding over poverty, 30-50 thousand gun deaths, mass incarcerations-- all that can surely wait. Besides, the LA city council wants its joint parade (oops, wrong word) with UCF.

 

There's no way this is going to become a congressional hearing. It's not gonna happen in an election year.

[S5Dewey]

 

MLB is going to have to do something real to stop this nonsense of using in game real time video and electronics to cheat. My preference, the teams no longer get real time, in game video for ANYTHING. Take it away. No proprietary cameras, no access to league and network feeds other than what they can see on the big board...

 

Another upside of this is that it will do away with the delay while mangers wait for the video to determine whether they want to appeal a play or not. Appeals were supposed to speed up games and that delay throws a monkey wrench into that idea. Let the managers make a decision based on what they saw and go with it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I know some people here were apoplectic when I mentioned that I could see Cora back with Boston in the future... but now Merloni can see it:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/merloni-why-alex-cora-could-return-red-sox-manager-2021

[mvp 78]

I know some people here were apoplectic when I mentioned that I could see Cora back with Boston in the future... but now Merloni can see it:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/merloni-why-alex-cora-could-return-red-sox-manager-2021

 

"Cora's a longshot."

 

That's an understatement.

[notin]

"Cora's a longshot."

 

That's an understatement.

 

Yeah, I mean, technically, so am I...

[jung]

Not sure how they'd take it away, but I'm into it.

 

No more video rooms. No proprietary camera systems either. The teams would get what we get, the Network video feed which they are welcome to watch in some front office and that is it. The Network feed is one camera view at a time not chosen by the teams or even by MLB.

 

In addition, I would blur the catcher's hand in the network feed when giving the sign if they are going to stay with visual signs. Just remove the blurred area after the sign has been given. It is unfortunate that with such a system in place, we the TV audience would no longer be able to see the signs. But that is just the way it goes. In order to keep the teams from using electronics and video in real time and in game in the form of the Network feed, we would absorb some collateral damage. Better that than seeing MLB sweep this under the carpet and do nothing.

 

As indicated in earlier posts, this means giving up replay in the way that it is implemented today. GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

Take replay entirely out of the hands of the teams. Leave it to MLB what to review and restrict reviews to HR's, questionable catches and plays at the plate. Thats it!

[Bellhorn04]

You can also take away the video and keep the current system in place except managers have to use the naked eye, just like the umps. I think that's a sensible compromise.

[Tedballgame]

No statistic can show someone is cheating using electronic means. But the three people who ratted the Sox our are all they’re gonna need. The Sox are gonna get crushed in this one

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe if every MLB team but the Yankees gets suspended for a year they can finally win a World Series.

[jacksonianmarch]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe if every MLB team but the Yankees gets suspended for a year they can finally win a World Series.

 

You love me, don’t you?

[oldtimer]

Hi tech sign stealing is available which would make the Astros trash can approach seem archaic. Improvements in cameras, artificial intelligence run on a Watson like computer capability, direct electronic real time relaying to the batter. A great deal is at stake in winning the WS so clearly the incentive is there. Harsh punishments can cause most to think twice about implementing such devices and approaches but perhaps the consciences of managers and players are such that any nefarious approaches will be found out eventually. The human element is probably the weakest in keeping things secret.

 

Makes one wonder what other areas are subject to cheating. Certainly base stealing, hit and run, bunt and other signs might be decoded electronically as well as ball and strike calls were. We've seen steroids and HGH drugs over the recent past, bat corking was once practiced as was substances and marking of the baseball by the pitcher. In a way,Going way back to the Blacksox scandal, players were even paid to throw games. MLBB was cheating on the super live ball put into use. Never heard any admission of that by the commissioner even though it was obvious to the fans.

 

Be good to rid the game of the cheating spectre.

[jung]

You can also take away the video and keep the current system in place except managers have to use the naked eye, just like the umps. I think that's a sensible compromise.

 

The only way to do that would be to take the replay decision making process entirely out of the hands of the teams which is what they should do anyway. Replay needs to be stripped down to a specific set of plays and MLB needs to be making the decisions about which plays are reviewed, NOT THE MANAGERS. Let the Managers go out there and argue calls again. Much more interesting than looking at that stupid hand held up by the Manager indicating to the field umps that the Manager is PONDERING a review. RIDICULOUS.....utterly ridiculous.

[Bellhorn04]

The only way to do that would be to take the replay decision making process entirely out of the hands of the teams which is what they should do anyway. Replay needs to be stripped down to a specific set of plays and MLB needs to be making the decisions about which plays are reviewed, NOT THE MANAGERS.

 

I'm not sure why you're opposed to managers being allowed to request a review altogether.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The problem that a lot of people don't want to hear is that for baseball ballplayers, the C-word isn't even part of their parlance.

 

Seeking an edge is in their DNAs. Players, coaches, scouts, employees in the analytics department constantly study the opposition; it's their job. Baseball is a game based on using codes, and the guys who who can break a code are among the most respected in the game.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem that a lot of people don't want to hear is that for baseball ballplayers, the C-word isn't even part of their parlance.

 

Seeking an edge is in their DNAs. Players, coaches, scouts, employees in the analytics department constantly study the opposition; it's their job. Baseball is a game based on using codes, and the guys who who can break a code are among the most respected in the game.

 

I think you're right, and the current cheating scandal was pretty much a natural consequence of that mentality, plus the easy access to live video.

 

I think Manfred and MLB made a huge blunder not seeing this coming.

[a700hitter]

If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.

[jung]

I'm not sure why you're opposed to managers being allowed to request a review altogether.

 

Because it is part of a replay system that does not work. It is boring. It takes too long to employ and it leads to this nonsense of slo-mo of a runner crossing the bag while we are looking for a nanosecond when he might have lost contact with the bag while the fielder held the tag. That is just nonsense baseball. Its nonsense. That is particularly nonsensical given the plastic bases which nobody can hang onto. Plus it provides a ready tool to employ in game real time video and electronics to cheat!

 

I want three play types reviewed and I want MLB to determine if they will or won't review. I want HR's, questionable catches, plays at the plate and thats it. I want no more of THE HAND held up by Managers while we wait with our thumbs up our asses. Let the Managers go out and argue calls again. Much more interesting, much more entertaining and much more in the spirit of the game.

[a700hitter]

Because it is part of a replay system that does not work. It is boring. It takes too long to employ and it leads to this nonsense of slo-mo of a runner crossing the bag while we are looking for a nanosecond when he might have lost contact with the bag while the fielder held the tag. That is just nonsense baseball. Its nonsense. That is particularly nonsensical given the plastic bases which nobody can hang onto. Plus it provides a ready tool to employ in game real time video and electronics to cheat!

 

I want three play types reviewed and I want MLB to determine if they will or won't review. I want HR's, questionable catches, plays at the plate and thats it. I want no more of THE HAND held up by Managers while we wait with our thumbs up our asses. Let the Managers go out and argue calls again. Much more interesting, much more entertaining and much more in the spirit of the game.

I am sick of the replay system too. The neighborhood play never bothered me. If a throw beats the runner and the fielder sells a quick swipe tag, I am okay with that too. It is part of the artistry of the game. On another topic, get rid of the no contact rule at 2B. That was also part of the artistry of the game. A middle infielder jumping out of the way of a base runner as he turned 2 was a beautiful thing. The number of catastrophic injuries prevented by the rule is negligible. The guy who got injured on the play that resulted in the rule was a bum who would have been out of the game shortly even if he had not been injured.

[mvp 78]

I think you're right, and the current cheating scandal was pretty much a natural consequence of that mentality, plus the easy access to live video.

 

I think Manfred and MLB made a huge blunder not seeing this coming.

 

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